PFT: If Seymour doesn't report, Raiders will want their pick back

[Deus Irae]

I started a thread earlier today to try and get this resolved, having the same questions. Several people responded who had gotten their information from people who knew the contract rules, and were clear:

-if a 5 day letter is to be sent to Seymour, it is sent by Oakland, as they currently own his contract.

-the system is set up to assume that a player will pass the physical, so all of the ownership lies with the team that traded for the player.

-If anyone has to pay Seymour anything, it will be the Raiders, unless he fails a physical. If he doesn't show up for a physical, the rules assume that he will pass it when he does, and thus Oakland owns the contract.

I've been saying that it was the Raiders who would have to send the letter, but that it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. The payment aspect was an unknown, so thank you for that. The void still applies.

In fact, WEEI was just going over all of this (they're still talking about Seymour), and there's still confusion, according to them, and the Patriots can still lose the pick.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

.

What happens right now if, say, a trade is made but the player decides to retire? Does the team trading the player lose the pick they got? I suppose Seymour could screw the Pats by retiring, and then they're out both Seymour and the pick, but then Seymour's also out of a lucrative career.

Well, a few seasons ago Denver traded Jake Plummer, who said he was retiring, to Tampa Bay for a 5th rounder.

When he didn't report, I don't recall the league voiding the deal, and I don't recall Denver giving back the 5th.

Tampa Bay, however, wanted a refund from Plummer on his bonus, and I don't recall how that worked out.

Still, Jake is still retired now, playing handball up in Idaho, last I saw.

What will doubtless happen is, everyone remotely connected to this in the universe is going to lean heavily on Seymour should he balk at refusing to report.

Unless the league somehow, in yet another fit of anti-Patriot pique, cuts off it's nose to spite it's face and voids the deal, Oakland, in the end, will just plain be SOL should he not report.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Now Big O with Curren on says that Florio is hearing that the problem is Richard was led to believe (by his agent...) that he was in negotiations on a retirement deal with NE... QUOTE]

So hes gonna go the Farve route???? Sit out 09 and come back in 2010?????

 

[Pats726]

Now Big O with Curren on says that Florio is hearing that the problem is Richard was led to believe (by his agent...) that he was in negotiations on a retirement deal with NE... So he's throwing Eugene under the bus for the whole debaucle... This is what I opined before, a player who overplayed his hand all along and somehow still thought the team would extend him...

Curren says the league told him the contract has been traded and this is on the Oakland to get him to report. Oakland apparently interprets it different than the league.

Curren says the league will likely have to get involved and someone eventually will have to send him the 5 day letter if they haven't already.

Anything beyond that is just guys speculating on how this can be handled and by whom...mostly because it hasn't happened in forever...because players report to get their money.

Also after that they speculated that Parker may have been leading Seymour on a bit..when the team was only inquiring about what he wanted. I REALLY doubt that a deal was anyway close, especially with his stance of no hometown discount.
They continued and there was some discrepency as to who would send the 5 day letter...and whose list he would be on as suspended. Obviously the Patriots will not pay him and neither will the Raiders.
The trade HAS gone through as papers were filed with the NFL office. There was speculation that the 5 day letter has already been sent and that it's also possible that Seymour could retire. They also said that the worst was IF that happened as the Pats would have no Seymour and no pick. That though was said to be quite slim since it's the money Sey realy wants.
If he does not report in 5 days, he does not get paid and this year has never happened. Meaning, in 010, it's his last year of contract.
Curran also thought there was a possibility albeit small that if it did not go through that he could end up back with the team..but he didn't say if this was this year or next. All in all, it did seem like it is way out in uncharted waters..going back to Garrett or Thomas. Seems like a real mess..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I've been saying that it was the Raiders who would have to send the letter, but that it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. The payment aspect was an unknown, so thank you for that. The void still applies.

In fact, WEEI was just going over all of this (they're still talking about Seymour), and there's still confusion, according to them, and the Patriots can still lose the pick.

There is confusion amongst them because no one has asked all the hypothetical questions of the league yet. So they are running scenarios trying to figure out what the end game might be.

At the end of the day the league has to enforce the rules that prohibit a player simply refusing a trade. The alternative would be chaos. My guess is the pressure first rachets up on Oakland and the player to come together, particularly in light of what Seymour is now trying to blame this all on (his agent misleading him about a future in NE...). Even if there was such a negotiation ongoing it changes nothing. They obviously didn't get a deal done and the Patriots got an offer they couldn't refuse. The Cable comment now sounds like Richard told him he wasn't sure he was free to report because he thought NE really still wanted him...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now Big O with Curren on says that Florio is hearing that the problem is Richard was led to believe (by his agent...) that he was in negotiations on a retirement deal with NE... QUOTE]

So hes gonna go the Farve route???? Sit out 09 and come back in 2010?????

No, he is claiming he thought the team was well on the way to signing him to an extension that would take him through to retirement as a Patriot...

He can't he that dumb so it has to be he was that deluded.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

A contract that he would have BROKEN by not following its terms by not obeying an NFL sanctioned trade.

He'd have to go to the Supreme Court to overturn the CBA. He ain't Curt Flood and this isn't the 1960's.

How hard is that to understand? Unfortunately, this kind of lack of understanding is prevalent in the newspapers of Boston, what with baseball-oriented, NFL-neophyte commentators like Mazarotti and Shaughnessy spreading their ignorance around.

This isn't MLB. How long have you followed the NFL?

Actually, his contract just says if he plays football, it has to be with Oakland now. He can retire if he so choses. There could be a problem with givebacks in the contract if he does go that route, however. I don't know, not being aware of the contract's stipulations.

But in any event, the only ways I'm aware of that will negate this deal is (1) he fails the physical; or (2) the league voids the deal (they have that legal power).

The onus, it appears, is on Oakland in this one.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, he is claiming he thought the team was well on the way to signing him to an extension that would take him through to retirement as a Patriot...

He can't he that dumb so it has to be he was that deluded.

Thanks Mo.

Sounds to me that he broke up with his girl and is running back to see if they can get back together again. Pathetic.

 

[Ring 6]

I've been saying that it was the Raiders who would have to send the letter, but that it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. The payment aspect was an unknown, so thank you for that. The void still applies.

In fact, WEEI was just going over all of this (they're still talking about Seymour), and there's still confusion, according to them, and the Patriots can still lose the pick.

They do not know if the Patriots can loose the pick. That is their confusion.
There is no maybe, its one or the other.
I dont know if thats what you meant, but your wording sounded as if it was still be determined whether the Pats could lose the pick. Thats not correct, its still to be LEARNED by WEEI whether the PAts could lose the pick.

 

[Ring 6]

There is confusion amongst them because no one has asked all the hypothetical questions of the league yet. So they are running scenarios trying to figure out what the end game might be.

At the end of the day the league has to enforce the rules that prohibit a player simply refusing a trade. The alternative would be chaos. My guess is the pressure first rachets up on Oakland and the player to come together, particularly in light of what Seymour is now trying to blame this all on (his agent misleading him about a future in NE...). Even if there was such a negotiation ongoing it changes nothing. They obviously didn't get a deal done and the Patriots got an offer they couldn't refuse. The Cable comment now sounds like Richard told him he wasn't sure he was free to report because he thought NE really still wanted him...

There were examples cited yesterday of TO and Plummer. Both do not apply though, because TOs grievance was that he had a clause in his contract that made a FA and the 9ers didnt own his rights. (The Philly trade was a compromise over that legal debate) And Plummer retired.
Neither apply here. I agree the league will not support a situation where a player gets to pick who he is traded to.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Thanks Mo.

Sounds to me that he broke up with his girl and is running back to see if they can get back together again. Pathetic.

Lou Merloni just nailed it. In reponse to a caller who now wanted to know if maybe Seymour and BB couldn't talk it over and maybe agree to a reasonable extension now and just rescind the trade. That would be tampering...He is the property of the Black Hole.

Richard thought he could treat this as a warning shot and say OK, I guess you guys called my bluff and are serious so let's talk what you're willing to extend me at. :attention:

Only it's too late now, the divorce papers are signed. And Richard can't imagine how this happened. He was only bluffing because, after all, it's a business...and he'd got talent...and :scream:

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

=MoLewisrocks;1493703


Lou Merloni just nailed it. In reponse to a caller who now wanted to know if maybe Seymour and BB couldn't talk it over and maybe agree to a reasonable extension now and just rescind the trade. That would be tampering...He is the property of the Black Hole.

Richard thought he could treat this as a warning shot and say OK, I guess you guys called my bluff and are serious so let's talk what you're willing to extend me at. :attention:

Only it's too late now, the divorce papers are signed. And Richard can't imagine how this happened. He was only bluffing because, after all, it's a business...and he'd got talent...and :scream:

[/QUOTE]

Aside from speculation and historical events, where is it being factually reported that Seymour and/or his agent were demanding a new big money contract?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Aside from speculation and historical events, where is it being factually reported that Seymour and/or his agent were demanding a new big money contract?

No one said that here. What we are talking about is what a league source tells Florio is the problem in Seymour's mind. He thought his agent and the team were closing in on a to retirement contract that would keep him with the team through his retirement. It would seem under that scenario that someone was mistaken... And while he seems to want it to sound now like that is all he ever hoped for, he clearly had been telling his teamates since last spring that he thought he was gone over his contract status. Reiterated that to Warren in camp. Somebody got their stories crossed. He's now reportedly pointing the finger at his agent.

 

[Jimke]

If talks were progressing with the Patriots on a contract extension,

why did Seymour tell some of his teammates that he was uneasy

and thought he might be traded?

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

No one said that here. What we are talking about is what a league source tells Florio is the problem in Seymour's mind. He thought his agent and the team were closing in on a to retirement contract that would keep him with the team through his retirement. It would seem under that scenario that someone was mistaken... And while he seems to want it to sound now like that is all he ever hoped for, he clearly had been telling his teamates since last spring that he thought he was gone over his contract status. Reiterated that to Warren in camp. Somebody got their stories crossed. He's now reportedly pointing the finger at his agent.

Nothing was said that he thought it was about contract status.

Warren said that Seymour had confided in him that he thought the writing was on the wall regarding his Patriots career and that something like a trade could happen before the season.

"Sey felt like something was going to happen along these lines," said Warren. "He mentioned that to me months prior to this happening. I didn't put much thought into it."

I have just seen a number of posts that allude, some of them almost as if it is fact, that Seymour was pushing for a new deal worth big money. Not saying he wasn't...just saying that some of these "facts" have yet to reveal themselves.

EDIT: I see where you get Warren mentioning Sey and the contract comment. What he said with Reiss and what he said with WEEI were differing.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

If talks were progressing with the Patriots on a contract extension,

why did Seymour tell some of his teammates that he was uneasy

and thought he might be traded?

Warren said this was back in the Spring. Sey may not have been of that mindset in the last couple weeks.

 

[italia44]

Felger keeps repeating "Why didn't they take the # 1 in 2010?

From all reprts on the NFLN and ESPN,Oakland offered a #2 and 5 in 2010,and BB declined.The amount of disinformation from the local print and radio media is mind boggling.

Seymour is about to lose a game check......1/17th of his salary.He's crying like a teenager about his agent.He's desperate to get back to the patriots......That train has left the station.I think Oakland will be forgiving,if he gets there by friday,otherwise Seymour is facing a world of financial-hurt and embarassment.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If talks were progressing with the Patriots on a contract extension,

why did Seymour tell some of his teammates that he was uneasy

and thought he might be traded?

Not that I think this is actually the case (at this point, I don't know and don't care to speculate) but he could have told some teammates that he thought he was going to be traded, but then as time went on thought that progress was being made. Last time I checked, opinions can change like that...

 

[Frezo]

Well, if he refuses to undergo a physical which is undoubtedly part of the deal in order for the trade to be consumated, then I do believe the Raiders can choose to back out of it rather than be forced to trade for a player that they cannot verify is healthy.

Seymour IS a Raider right now. It's their responsibility to get him to take the physical, not the Patriots. The Pats are out of the equation unless Seymour takes the physical and fails it.

 

[sieglo]

Big Richard = Big ****.