Peter King's August 2014 take, and now

[MassPats38]

Welker doesn't have a ring he has been to the Super Bowl 3 times. He is very much like Manning, lofty stats that don't mean **** when the game is on the line.

Are you saying a great receiver has the same effect on a game as a great QB? QBs direct the offense, while a receiver is a component of the offense. What's next, Brady is like Elway because Edelman put him on his back and carried him to the promised land? It is a team sport, but QBs are leaders on offense and direct the team. Receivers are role players who follow the leader. If a QB has a bad game, he kills the offense. If the receiver is off, the QB goes elsewhere with the ball. There is no comparison.

By that logic, Barry Sanders is a scrub running back. He couldn't get his team to the Super Bowl at all. And Randy Moss is a scrub receiver. And the entire Bills offense and defense in 4 Super Bowls were scrubs, because they couldn't win (despite all the Hall of Fame members on those teams). It doesn't follow, at all.

 

[Brady6]

Are you saying a great receiver has the same effect on a game as a great QB? QBs direct the offense, while a receiver is a component of the offense. What's next, Brady is like Elway because Edelman put him on his back and carried him to the promised land? It is a team sport, but QBs are leaders on offense and direct the team. Receivers are role players who follow the leader. If a QB has a bad game, he kills the offense. If the receiver is off, the QB goes elsewhere with the ball. There is no comparison.

By that logic, Barry Sanders is a scrub running back. He couldn't get his team to the Super Bowl at all. And Randy Moss is a scrub receiver. And the entire Bills offense and defense in 4 Super Bowls were scrubs, because they couldn't win (despite all the Hall of Fame members on those teams). It doesn't follow, at all.

You cannot just pick in choose when you what matters when comparing players, you cannot base Brady and Manning on SBs and then turn around and base the Edelman and Welker comparison on stats. That is just using things when convenient.

There is a lot of convenience in the arguments on this board though, Bruins29 is in one thread lobbying for Amendola based on his last few games (which is fine), but then he is in this thread suggesting people jump to the hype for players to quickly when they do well. Personally, I would just appreciate some consistency.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you saying a great receiver has the same effect on a game as a great QB? QBs direct the offense, while a receiver is a component of the offense. What's next, Brady is like Elway because Edelman put him on his back and carried him to the promised land? It is a team sport, but QBs are leaders on offense and direct the team. Receivers are role players who follow the leader. If a QB has a bad game, he kills the offense. If the receiver is off, the QB goes elsewhere with the ball. There is no comparison.

By that logic, Barry Sanders is a scrub running back. He couldn't get his team to the Super Bowl at all. And Randy Moss is a scrub receiver. And the entire Bills offense and defense in 4 Super Bowls were scrubs, because they couldn't win (despite all the Hall of Fame members on those teams). It doesn't follow, at all.

Anyone who judges any position, other than QB, by rings, is either mentally challenged or trolling. Even with QBs, rings are really only looked at when you're talking about the very best, and they're only used as a tiebreaker sort of thing.

 

[Brady6]

Anyone who judges any position, other than QB, by rings, is either mentally challenged or trolling. Even with QBs, rings are really only looked at when you're talking about the very best, and they're only used as a tiebreaker sort of thing.

Yeah that makes sense. That might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life, clearly you never played sports if you think that players are not supposed to be judged on winning. I just had to do a double take, I mean just WOW even if I thought what you wrote I would be too embarrassed to put in on paper never mind the world wide web.

Mentally challenged? Why are you ****ting on them, the Special Olympics athletes know that winning is what matters most… It appears Retired Jersey players on Patsfans are the only people who think otherwise.

 

[Bruins29]

You should try to not become so emotionally involved with the players, you have a bias for .

Did you just write that? I did a few double takes.

Its called being objective, rational and not a homer. Try it.

 

[Bruins29]

Bruins29 is in one thread lobbying for Amendola based on his last few games (which is fine),

1. What does that have to do with this discussion at hand
2. Looking at how he played, his ST value, his chemistry with TB and JE and the fact that cutting him does save only about 1.5 million we still have to have a good 3rd WR which will cost that anyway. I think its worth keeping him

Its called a logical deduction. Try it.

 

[Bruins29]

It appears Retired Jersey players on Patsfans are the only people who think

I changed it so its makes sense.

BTW There is nothing in it for me of the other posters here to make the claims we did about WW vs JE. There is so secret WW fan club. We dont own stock in the WW company. Everyone loves JE and should. Some can look at things objectively. Others cant.

 

[Brady6]

1. What does that have to do with this discussion at hand
2. Looking at how he played, his ST value, his chemistry with TB and JE and the fact that cutting him does save only about 1.5 million we still have to have a good 3rd WR which will cost that anyway. I think its worth keeping him

Its called a logical deduction. Try it.

My point is that you are all over the place, one thread you rely on recent performance, another thread you are all about historic performance. For the record though we could save more than $1.5M if we designate him a 6/1 cut we would save $4.5M against the cap in 2015. It is $4M in new money, the $3.6M remaining is a sunk cost from his signing bonus, so it is not as cut and dry as you think it is.

Check out this salary cap calculator - http://overthecap.com/calculator/new-england-patriots/ You will see that your logic is flawed and that is why I do not agree with it.

 

[Bruins29]

My point is that you are all over the place, one thread you rely on recent performance, another thread you are all about historic performance.

I am not sure what you are talking about.

What does WW vs JE as all time rated WRs (which was a discussion) have to do with DA and if we have a better option at that position at a better value who will bring all the intangibles. Yes, all we an go on is what DA has done and what we think he will bring in 2015 VS ______ option. How else can you make a determination on keep/cut/restructure?

I am really wondering of you are just trying to goad me into a fight or I am missing something here?

 

[Brady6]

I changed it so its makes sense.

BTW There is nothing in it for me of the other posters here to make the claims we did about WW vs JE. There is so secret WW fan club. We dont own stock in the WW company. Everyone loves JE and should. Some can look at things objectively. Others cant.

I am not knocking Welker, but he is not a winner, and he has played with 2 of the greatest QBs ever and never won a SB with either so that factors into my thinking, which is objective. I do not really care who is better I or to be honest if they even exist other than on game day, these people are not my friends or family I am not emotionally attached to them. I like Edelman because he is here right now, Welker is nothing but a distant memory to me.

For the record your edit of my post was sort of stupid since it implies you do not think either since you are not a retired jersey member.

 

[Bruins29]

I am not knocking Welker, but he is not a winner, and he has played with 2 of the greatest QBs ever and never won a SB with either so that factors into my thinking, which is objective. I do not really care who is better I or to be honest if they even exist other than on game day, these people are not my friends or family I am not emotionally attached to them. I like Edelman because he is here right now, Welker is nothing but a distant memory to me.

For the record your edit of my post was sort of stupid since it implies you do not think either since you are not a retired jersey member.

NEITHER IS DAN MARINO BUT THAT DOSENT MEAN JOE FLACCO IS A BETTER QB

Not sure what you are talking about again with the retired jersey thing. I guess I am not in your league of intellect. My loss.

 

[Bruins29]

I am not knocking Welker,

You were knocking people who were trying to have a civil, objective, discussion about something with you having no really good frame of reference of the original discussion.

And WW not being here and a memory is fine. But it is bias. I was glad when he left too. I thought JE could do the job.

 

[Brady6]

I am not sure what you are talking about.

What does WW vs JE as all time rated WRs (which was a discussion) have to do with DA and if we have a better option at that position at a better value who will bring all the intangibles. Yes, all we an go on is what DA has done and what we think he will bring in 2015 VS ______ option. How else can you make a determination on keep/cut/restructure?

I am really wondering of you are just trying to goad me into a fight or I am missing something here?

Thread A - the posters argument is based on the body of work and history of a player.
Thread B - the posters argument is based on the last few games and recent success.

The same poster making both arguments within 24 hours, you are being changing your perspective to adapt to an argument you are not being consistent, I cannot make sense of you, I agree with you in the DA thread and disagree with you here because I am using the same philosophy of the here and now for both.

Not trying to rope you into anything, I do not argue on here anymore, look at my last 3-4 months of posts, I am not about that it is a big waste of time. I am simply trying to align with you so I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[Bruins29]

Is Joe Flacco a better QB than Dan Marino?

 

[Brady6]

You were knocking people who were trying to have a civil, objective, discussion about something with you having no really good frame of reference of the original discussion.

And WW not being here and a memory is fine. But it is bias. I was glad when he left too. I thought JE could do the job.

No I am knocking people who do not think the fact that Welker never winning a SB despite being part of 3 of the best offenses in NFL history with 2 future HOF QBs is a factor in his legacy. I would add I think I have been civil in my posts. DI should not have knocked mentally challenged people it was ignorant and immature, so my response to him was polite considering.

 

[Brady6]

Is Joe Flacco a better QB than Dan Marino?

Cannot compare them, Flacco is in the first half of his career Marino is retired, once Flacco is retired I will be able to answer that question for you.

 

[Bruins29]

Cannot compare them, Flacco is in the first half of his career Marino is retired, once Flacco is retired I will be able to answer that question for you.

I am asking you RIGHT NOW. Just as we were comparing JE now to WW career.

Its not complicated.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am not sure what you are talking about.

What does WW vs JE as all time rated WRs (which was a discussion) have to do with DA and if we have a better option at that position at a better value who will bring all the intangibles. Yes, all we an go on is what DA has done and what we think he will bring in 2015 VS ______ option. How else can you make a determination on keep/cut/restructure?

I am really wondering of you are just trying to goad me into a fight or I am missing something here?

Ahh.... now I know to whom you are responding. That explains a lot.

 

[Bruins29]

Ahh.... now I know to whom you are responding. That explains a lot.

Bingo. He tooks a JE/WW discussion and got DA involved.

Its like algebra.

 

[Brady6]

I am asking you RIGHT NOW. Just as we were comparing JE now to WW career.

Its not complicated.

That is like comparing the mileage on a 2001 Honda Accord to a 2014 Toyota Camry.. It's not comparable, at age 28 Edelman is a better player than Welker when he was at age 28 in my opinion. I was 14 when Marino retired so honestly I never saw much of him with my own eyes so I couldn't tell you what I think of him compared to Flacco or anyone else.