Peter King with a Juicy BB-Tebow Tidbit

[RodThePat]

Yes, if you just ignore the impact that Tebow has had on the team, you can ignore the impact that Tebow has had on the team.

Funny how that works.

Broncos before Tebow:

Averaged 20.6 points per game on offense and 28.4 points per game on defense.

Broncos after Tebow:

Averaging 20.5 points per game on offense and 20.2 points per game on defense.

Surely, Tebow should be getting the majority of the credit here. I'll give him credit for the Vikings and Raiders wins, but the rest of the games he shouldn't even have had a chance of driving down the field to win it in fourth quarter. The emergence of the Broncos defense has played a MUCH larger role in their recent success than Tebow. Yeah, in the end he made plays to win games when he had to, but whoever thinks scoring in the teens and miraculously pulling it off in the fourth quarter is a formula for success is kidding themselves.

 

[Deus Irae]

Broncos before Tebow:

Averaged 20.6 points per game on offense and 28.4 points per game on defense.

Broncos after Tebow:

Averaging 20.5 points per game on offense and 20.2 points per game on defense.

Surely, Tebow should be getting the majority of the credit here. I'll give him credit for the Vikings and Raiders wins, but the rest of the games he shouldn't even have had a chance of winning the game in fourth quarter. The emergence of the Broncos defense has played a MUCH larger role in their recent success than Tebow. Yeah, in the end he made plays to win games when he had to, but whoever thinks scoring in the teens and pulling it out in the fourth quarter is a formula for success is kidding themselves.

The part that you seem to be ignoring is that the change to Tebow is part of why the defense has improved.

 

[RodThePat]

The part that you seem to be ignoring is that the change to Tebow is part of why the defense has improved.

How? By going to an offense based predominantly on running the ball and enlarging their time of possession, thus limiting the opponent's opportunities? I think that played a part in it too, but if that's what you are saying, then the guy who should be credited on offense is Willis McGahee, who has been far more effective in rushing the football than Tebow. The only thing he does well as a quarterback is limiting turnovers, and that surely helps, but that's also in part because his passes are often so inaccurate that even defenders have a hard time getting to them.

 

[Deus Irae]

How? By going to an offense based predominantly on running the ball and enlarging their time of possession, thus limiting the opponent's opportunities? I think that played a part in it too, but if that's what you are saying, then the guy who should be credited on offense is Willis McGahee, who has been far more effective in rushing the football than Tebow. The only thing he does well as a quarterback is limiting turnovers, and that surely helps, but that's also in part because his passes are often so inaccurate that even defenders have a hard time getting to them.

You just named two significant ways how the switch to Tebow could help the defense after asking "how". Think of what that says about your reason for arguing this. Also a good part of the reason that McGahee is running so much better is because of Tebow's presence in the offensive backfield, as he requires defenders to defend the QB as well as the RB, something most other QBs don't do. We saw the same thing in Atlanta with Vick, so it's nothing new or surprising.

You're coming from a hostile position towards Tebow for some reason. Why is that?

 

[ATippett56]

It baffles me that a quarterback can have his team go scoreless for 3 and a half quarters, then put up a TD and need his kicker to convert on two 50+ yard field goals, aside from needing the opposing RB to run out of bound with the game pretty much over, and still he gets the credit for the win. It's just laughable.

The Chicago Bears may have the worst backup quarterback in the NFL as well as the worst offensive line. After watching the Bears-Broncos game, it's no wonder why the Dallas Cowboys cut Marion Barber.

 

[ATippett56]

Broncos before Tebow:

Averaged 20.6 points per game on offense and 28.4 points per game on defense.

Broncos after Tebow:

Averaging 20.5 points per game on offense and 20.2 points per game on defense.

Surely, Tebow should be getting the majority of the credit here. I'll give him credit for the Vikings and Raiders wins, but the rest of the games he shouldn't even have had a chance of driving down the field to win it in fourth quarter. The emergence of the Broncos defense has played a MUCH larger role in their recent success than Tebow. Yeah, in the end he made plays to win games when he had to, but whoever thinks scoring in the teens and miraculously pulling it off in the fourth quarter is a formula for success is kidding themselves.

You also need to look at the opposing team's quarterbacks during that eight game stretch.

 

[RodThePat]

You just named two significant ways how the switch to Tebow could help the defense after asking "how". Think of what that says about your reason for arguing this. Also a good part of the reason that McGahee is running so much better is because of Tebow's presence in the offensive backfield, as he requires defenders to defend the QB as well as the RB, something most other QBs don't do. We saw the same thing in Atlanta with Vick, so it's nothing new or surprising.

You're coming from a hostile position towards Tebow for some reason. Why is that?

Just think he is the most undeservedly overhyped athlete in recent sports history. In terms of skillset he is the worst starting QB in the NFL. This whole leadership aspect is, in my opinion, overrated too, as I think there comes a point when the 'magic' fades, and all you're left with is a guy that doesn't have any tangible ability to successfully quarterback a football team. I don't actually hate him, and, as a matter of fact, I'm greatly enjoying this Broncos run, because every game is so crazy. I just think what they are doing as a team is unsustainable.

If Tebow goes on to win 10 games a year for the next 6 years and leads the Broncos to the playoffs consistently, than I'll agree he is just something else entirely, and that intangibles in his case might mean a lot. Right now, though, I just don't see anything in his play that would indicate continued success going forward. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, you seem to like him and I don't fault you for that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just think he is the most undeservedly overhyped athlete in recent sports history. In terms of skillset he is the worst starting QB in the NFL. This whole leadership aspect is, in my opinion, overrated too, as I think there comes a point when the 'magic' fades, and all you're left with is a guy that doesn't have any tangible ability to successfully quarterback a football team. I don't actually hate him, and, as a matter of fact, I'm greatly enjoying this Broncos run, because every game is so crazy. I just think what they are doing as a team is unsustainable.

If Tebow goes on to win 10 games a year for the next 6 years and leads the Broncos to the playoffs consistently, than I'll agree he is just something else entirely, and that intangibles in his case might mean a lot. Right now, though, I just don't see anything in his play that would indicate continued success going forward. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, you seem to like him and I don't fault you for that.

The kid's already gotten the Broncos to the point where they can't have a losing season this year. Coming off of a 4-12 season and a 1-4 start, that's a hell of a job for any QB, be it Tim Tebow or Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Aaron Rodgers/Drew Brees. With a final schedule of Patriots/Bills/Chiefs, while the Raiders have a final schedule of Lions/Chiefs/Chargers and the Chargers have a final schedule of Ravens/Lions/Raiders, Tebow may be just one win away from getting his team to the playoffs. I don't really see why you choose to remain so hostile towards the guy.

As for me, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I'm just finding it amusing to watch all the bashers trying to keep justifying their position in the face of a 7-1 run. The kid's obviously a better passer than Fox allows him to be for much of the game, and it's obvious that he's gotten better over the course of the season. Whether he'll ever do enough to be a real threat in the league is something that remains to be seen. I just love the number of doubters who've had to dine on crow already....

"He'll never get drafted in the first round"

"He'll never make an nfl roster as a QB"

"He'll never play a snap as an NFL QB"

"He'll never start in the NFL as a QB"

"He'll never win as a QB in the NFL"

"He can't win consistently"





"He'll never get a team into the playoffs" could be the next plate served.

 

[RodThePat]

The kid's already gotten the Broncos to the point where they can't have a losing season this year. Coming off of a 4-12 season and a 1-4 start, that's a hell of a job for any QB, be it Tim Tebow or Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Aaron Rodgers/Drew Brees. With a final schedule of Patriots/Bills/Chiefs, while the Raiders have a final schedule of Lions/Chiefs/Chargers and the Chargers have a final schedule of Ravens/Lions/Raiders, Tebow may be just one win away from getting his team to the playoffs. I don't really see why you choose to remain so hostile towards the guy.

As for me, I don't really have a dog in the fight. I'm just finding it amusing to watch all the bashers trying to keep justifying their position in the face of a 7-1 run. The kid's obviously a better passer than Fox allows him to be for much of the game, and it's obvious that he's gotten better over the course of the season. Whether he'll ever do enough to be a real threat in the league is something that remains to be seen. I just love the number of doubters who've had to dine on crow already....

"He'll never get drafted in the first round"

"He'll never make an nfl roster as a QB"

"He'll never play a snap as an NFL QB"

"He'll never start in the NFL as a QB"

"He'll never win as a QB in the NFL"

"He can't win consistently"





"He'll never get a team into the playoffs" could be the next plate served.

At this point I think the Broncos are the clear cut favorites to win the West. I'm not hostile towards Tebow, the person, but the hype he gets annoys me to no end. By all accounts he is a fine young man and there should be no reason to hate him personally. I just don't think the praise he gets is all deserved, that's all.

 

[Deus Irae]

At this point I think the Broncos are the clear cut favorites to win the West. I'm not hostile towards Tebow, the person, but the hype he gets annoys me to no end. By all accounts he is a fine young man and there should be no reason to hate him personally. I just don't think the praise he gets is all deserved, that's all.

He's got the second best winning percentage of any starting QB with any real amount of games played this season (his 7-1 is behind only Rodgers). He has done that on a team that has won just 4 games without him as a starter in the past 2 seasons, and he's done it in his first 11 games as a starter.

How is that not worthy of a huge amount of praise?

 

[RodThePat]

He's got the second best winning percentage of any starting QB with any real amount of games played this season (his 7-1 is behind only Rodgers). He has done that on a team that has won just 4 games without him as a starter in the past 2 seasons, and he's done it in his first 11 games as a starter.

How is that not worthy of a huge amount of praise?

Because in my opinion there are guys on that team who have done more to elevate the Broncos from 1-4 to 8-5 than Tim Tebow, and you never hear about them. And if it were another QB that lead the Broncos to that record do you really think they'd be getting the same press? Kyle Orton guided them to a 6-0 start once, too, where were all the pundits talking about him non-stop?

Andy Dalton has had a pretty good season quarterbacking a team that many speculated could be in the running for the first overall pick in the draft, where are all the Andy Dalton stories? What the Broncos have done is remarkable, without a shadow of a doubt. Tebow deserves praise, but what is happening now is way over the top.

 

[shmessy]

He's got the second best winning percentage of any starting QB with any real amount of games played this season (his 7-1 is behind only Rodgers). He has done that on a team that has won just 4 games without him as a starter in the past 2 seasons, and he's done it in his first 11 games as a starter.

How is that not worthy of a huge amount of praise?

OH!!!! So won-loss record IS now the important yardstick to Deus Irae!!!!!

Classic.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because in my opinion there are guys on that team who have done more to elevate the Broncos from 1-4 to 8-5 than Tim Tebow, and you never hear about them. And if it were another QB that lead the Broncos to that record do you really think they'd be getting the same press? Kyle Orton guided them to a 6-0 start once, too, where were all the pundits talking about him non-stop?

Every week, people are saying "It's not just Tebow". Every week, Tebow is deflecting the praise to his teammates. The notion that you never hear about the rest of the team is simply untrue.

And Orton was getting all kinds of praise.

Andy Dalton has had a pretty good season quarterbacking a team that many speculated could be in the running for the first overall pick in the draft, where are all the Andy Dalton stories? What the Broncos have done is remarkable, without a shadow of a doubt. Tebow deserves praise, but what is happening now is way over the top.

Andy Dalton was getting a lot of praise, but he's 7-6, not 7-1. Tebow was the biggest name QB coming out of last year's draft, was a very controversial player, and was on the bench to start the year. It's natural that his story would be getting a lot of coverage.

BTW, Tebow currently has a better QB rating than Dalton, Newton, Gabbert and Ponder, even though the rating doesn't really include a lot of what Tebow/Newton bring to the table.

 

[Deus Irae]

OH!!!! So won-loss record IS now the important yardstick to Deus Irae!!!!!

Classic.

You keep interjecting lousy arguments into threads that have nothing to do with your interjection.

My commenting about you not learning seems to be more apropos with every passing minute.

 

[RodThePat]

Every week, people are saying "It's not just Tebow". Every week, Tebow is deflecting the praise to his teammates. The notion that you never hear about the rest of the team is simply untrue.

And Orton was getting all kinds of praise.



Andy Dalton was getting a lot of praise, but he's 7-6, not 7-1. Tebow was the biggest name QB coming out of last year's draft, was a very controversial player, and was on the bench to start the year. It's natural that his story would be getting a lot of coverage.

BTW, Tebow currently has a better QB rating than Dalton, Newton, Gabbert and Ponder, even though the rating doesn't really include a lot of what Tebow/Newton bring to the table.

Tebow has been deflecting the praise, I've seen some of his pressers and he says nothing but the right things. But the media has been all about Tebow, that can't be denied.

Anyway, don't know about you, but I've grown tired of this argument. Maybe in about a year's time we can revisit it, I think that might end up being interesting, haha.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tebow has been deflecting the praise, I've seen some of his pressers and he says nothing but the right things. But the media has been all about Tebow, that can't be denied.

Anyway, don't know about you, but I've grown tired of this argument. Maybe in about a year's time we can revisit it, I think that might end up being interesting, haha.

Unless Tebow ends up in New England or Kansas City, I doubt I'll care enough about his story to worry about it. The crow will already have been eaten.


BTW, I'd be with you if you wanted to mock Tebow's pastor, since the God I believe in isn't likely to care about the outcome of NFL football games:

“It’s not luck,” Wayne Hanson of Summit Church in Colorado told TMZ. “Luck isn’t winning 6 games in a row. It’s favor. God’s favor.”

Tim Tebow’s pastor attributes wins to “God’s favor” | ProFootballTalk

 

[olschool]

Can he play safety?

Seriously, BB. grab a couple guys from out of the stands and have them gain confidence catching Tebow's fluffernutters and we'll have our new safeties.

I'm usually of the "are what you are" school, but when you go 3-16 in the first half every week, comeback is the only possibility. I will be pissed if we let this guy off the hook.

Ironically,our defensive backs,until now being constantly caught out of position,
should be in perfect position to intercept every one of Tebow's 19 errant passes.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Just think he is the most undeservedly overhyped athlete in recent sports history.

Seems to be some backlash from the past year or so during which he was one of the most undeservedly bashed athletes in recent sports history, when pundits were lining up on every network telling us why he would fail and ignoring even the mere possibility that at some point he could improve on his weaknessess and use his strengths to their greatest advantage.

News flash... his attitude inspires his teammates to play better, even the defense.

People have always doubted the guy, not just in the NFL, as other chronicled.

-He was supposed to be too unorthodox to play at Florida, a national power.
-He was surely too rough to ever take the field as a freshman on a national contender, with an all-SEC QB there as a senior (Leak).
-He was surely too unskilled to become a full-time starter as a sophomore.
-He was surely not well-rounded enough to be a QB on a national champion...

Bottom line is the guy LEADS, plays hard, and gets everyone wearing his color jersey to play hard. Does it look pretty? Hell no.

I want the Patriots to beat the Broncos 50-0 next Sunday, mind you.

But before and after that, I can't help but be impressed of his role in transforming the fortunes of that team.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You keep interjecting lousy arguments into threads that have nothing to do with your interjection.

My commenting about you not learning seems to be more apropos with every passing minute.

What Douche is really saying,

"shmessy, quit pointing out what a clown I am for all my past stupid posts"

C'mon Douche you need perspective....it's all about perspective.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Ever since watching Jon Gruden's sit-down with Tebow right before the 2010 Draft, I have always thought that he was/is a Belichick kind of guy. In fact, I have also always thought that Josh traded up that year to 25 to take Tebow because he thought Belichick was going to take him at 27.