People Who Hold Out = Scum

[DaBruinz]

If I wanted your opinion, I would fart it out of my ass.

You must be one of the pre-school rejects we get in here when school is out for the summer with comments like that. I can't wait until school starts up again so we don't have to put up with the likes of you.

BTW, you opened yourself up for other people's opinions when you posted in a public forum.

BTW, I doubt you could fart my opinions. You've shown you aren't nearly intelligent enough for them to come from any orifice on your body.

 

[Michigan Dave]

I don't care HOW many friends you have in the league, too many of the players rely on their agent as the be all end all and can't think for themselves. And that is what gets them into trouble.

I suggest that you do some research on a former NHL Agent by the name of Alan Eagleson. He was the agent for guys like Bobby Orr and Rick Middleton. He is the one who cost the Bruins Bobby Orr because he never told Bobby Orr about the contract that the Bruins offered him in which they offered something like 6-16% ownership of the Bruins. Because Orr didn't know about that offer, Eagles told Orr that he was being snubbed and Orr decided to sign with the Blackhawks. Eagleson also put Middleton into bankruptcy.

Player Agents aren't there to protect the player. They are there to leech off the player and try and get as much money as possible to line their pockets. And many of the players, as someone else said, aren't smart enough to know any better. And its sad, really.

The other part of the problem is that there is so much legal mumbo jumbo thrown into the contracts (almost strictly because of the agents) that players almost CAN'T represent themselves. If the process was simple, then the players could understand the numbers easier and there wouldn't be a need for the agents.

That is why Tedy Bruschi is such a breath of fresh air. Tedy negotiated his own contract, took only enough money that he KNEW he could provide for his family for a LONG time and that was that. And the Patriots did right by him.

I'm well versed in the Eagleson situation, and since I work for the league, I have an idea of how the structure of contracts work. Players shouldn't represent themselves, plain and simple. They should, however, find a responsible agent who will represent their best interests. Believe me, these guys exist. Players would be eaten alive by management in negotiations. One of my first jobs was supposed to be negotiating lower-level contracts (your practice squad guys, camp bodies, etc.) and even as someone who studied this in college, it was somewhat overwhelming. The amount of research that a good agent will do to make sure the best deal available is made is outstanding. Where you run into problems is with the sleazy agents that we all know about, and the tactics they use.

 

[JR4]

Apparently Branch has been offered a decent deal around 6M per year.
So it is not that PATs haven't tried to make Branch happy.
He wants more and is willing to hold his playing time hostage until he gets
what he wants.

Question what can PATs do?

1. Give in to Branch's request or some proximity to what he wants

2. Not give in and wait and see what branch will do.

Suppose they decide on option 2 but Branch goes to week 10 before
returning.

When he returns will he play with heart? Why sure he wants to show the
world how good he is to get that big pay day when FA comes along.

Now PATs can say nothing and utilize Branch and his motivation to finish out
the season.

Next offseason they Franchise him.
If plays his games again .... and doesn't sign then
just let him sit for a year but he'll sign rather than go a year without pay.
By the time he can sign with another team he'll be almost 29 yrs old.
How many teams will give him a big contract then?

The point of all this is I think the PATs can bring some pressure on Branch
if they do it right.

 

[sdaniels7114]

I still think this is mostly weather-related. He can either sit by the pool drinking a drink with a lil' umbrella in it or he could be doing pushups on his knuckles in 99 degree heat.

 

[jeffro]

In any other business in the civilized world if you signed a contract and then didn't hold up your end of the bargain you'd get sued for breach of contract.

I've seen this or something similar so many times, and always wonder who are these regular joes who sign NFL-like contracts for their work? Don't most people just take open-ended jobs at an agreed wage or salary? We can leave for a better job with more pay whenever we want (and likewise be fired at any time)? I know some workers are contract-bound, but aren't most of us essentially free agents?

Not that I disagree about honoring contracts, but I don't think most of us have that obligation.

 

[jeffro]

Seymour, Branch and Watson are all scums in that case! lets cut them all before they ever get a chancce to hold out again

Watson situation was not the same as Branch and Seymour. Watson had no obligation at all to sign with Pats. His judgement may have been poor, but he wasn't under contract and had every right to fight for what he could get.

 

[Michigan Dave]

I've seen this or something similar so many times, and always wonder who are these regular joes who sign NFL-like contracts for their work? Don't most people just take open-ended jobs at an agreed wage or salary? We can leave for a better job with more pay whenever we want (and likewise be fired at any time)? I know some workers are contract-bound, but aren't most of us essentially free agents?

Not that I disagree about honoring contracts, but I don't think most of us have that obligation.

First of all, the NFL is bound by the Collective Bargaining Agreement, so "breach of contract" isn't quite so simple. As for the "average joes", well, really they aren't. Most states are at-will employers with only CEOs or high level executives bound by contract, and even those contracts can be bought out, broken, or circumvented similar to NFL employment contracts. "Breach of Contract" typically isn't a term associated with employment law, rather when goods or services are contracted out, or certain expectations are not met. It was a terrible analogy by someone that it appears with each passing post doesn't understand the labor make-up of professional sports. Next we'll hear about why the reserve clause was awesome.

 

[spacecrime]

I've seen this or something similar so many times, and always wonder who are these regular joes who sign NFL-like contracts for their work?

Most people are wage slaves who work for a company. They can leave or be fired or laid off.

Others sign contracts to do, well, contract work. You often hire home repair people doing this.

Also, nurses often get a signing bonus to agree to work for a specified period of time.

Computer people often free-lance and work by contract, either for a speciifed job or a specified length of time.

Many creative people (actors, musicians, some writers) work under contracts.

I'm not sure what happens if any of these workers refuse to honor their contract unless the pay is changed in their favor. I suppose it is like the NFL. If you are an aerospace company and have the best celestial physicist in the free world under contract and he demands more money, you probably give it to him, as the Pats did Seymour last year. It you are an above average, but not too hard to replace, scientist and pull the I-want-more-money trick, you would likely be unemployed.

 

[jeffro]

Most people are wage slaves who work for a company. They can leave or be fired or laid off.

I suppose some are more enslaved than others. But a marketable person can move pretty freely to a better job in his field.

It you are an above average, but not too hard to replace, scientist and pull the I-want-more-money trick, you would likely be unemployed.

Well, an unhappy scientist can just work for someone else for more money.

I'll let someone else argue over how binding the contracts you mention are, I really have no idea. I would expect someone who takes a job with a signing bonus to pay it back if he/she soon moves on to another job. I'd guess that very few are limited in the same way as an NFL player.

 

[patman52]

Boy, you must of really lit into Bill Belichick and the Patriots last year when they violated the sanctity of Troy Brown's contract by cutting him! You must have just spared no mercy, considering Troy Brown has been the ultimate team guy and loyal Patriot, and the team just hacked off his contract.

If you didn't, then you shouldn't talk about the sanctity of contracts in the NFL. Players can get cut at any moment. Contracts mean nothing to the teams. But players are scum for exercising the one form of leverage they have?

and you have to understand that nfl contracts are a series of one year contracts, you obligate your self to a team for a period of years in return for a SB for all six years that is paid up front. If a team cuts you you are a FA availble to sign with any team and you get to keep the SB for the years that you dont perform. God, I dont understand why people keep repeating drivel.

If the nfl was structured your way with guarneteed contracts counting against the cap, which they would have to you would have teams with 30mill of dead money players, and that is 30 mill that can not be allocated to players who are performing.

 

[fgssand]

Actually, we DO know the numbers. Chayut was kind enough to BLAB them to Wrong Bogus the weekend before camp started. It was a 3 year extension that averaged 6.25 million (total 18.75 million) that paid Branch 9 million over the last 2 years of the extension. That also meant that Branch would be seeing 9.75 million this year.

Also, even if it averaged to 5 million a year, Branch hasn't proven he can do it consistently. He's been injured for 3 of the 4 years.

Sorry, Deion is doing the STUPID thing and he really has absolutely no leverage because the Patriots can fine him 14K a day and not give him his contract extension. If Branch holds out for more than 75 days, he will start owing the Patriots money.

What YOU and Branch and Branch's ignorant agent fail to understand is that the Patriots do NOT have to offer Branch an extension (though they did). And they offered one that would pay Branch what he is worth at this point in time. Unfortunately, you seem to have a hard time understanding that concept.

This should be the point and focus of this thread. Well put and right on.

What I cannot understand is why is this not a fair deal - all things considered?? Pats do not have to offer these dollars, but they did and it seems to me to be quite a nice offer. I have not seem one case made, here or in the media that can sway my opinion away from thinking these numbers are just about right - all things considered.

When I say all things considered I mean...
Why is Branch not considering the Pats do not have to offer him this at all. Why is Branch not realizing he is only a top 15 receiver and as such, these numbers are fair.
Why is his agent spilling his guts to the media (the fact that he shut up lately, may be the only positive sign I can think of).
Why doesn't Deion realize he can be franchised next year meaning he is ours this and next year. If that happens, comparing the deal he won't sign - with what the next two years of hardball will mean - how can he win?
This holdout cannot be good for his image or his endorsement potential.
He said things in the spring that he is totally turning his back on - such as his appreciation of Patriots opportunity provided when they drafted him higher that anyone thought he should be, which led to more of a signing bonus and a better contract.

Sign the deal Deion - you are straining the goodwill we have for you as badly as Smith strained his hammy.

 

[MightyFooda]

That's my personal opinion, I've ALWAYS hated hold outs, they're scum in my book. In any other business in the civilized world if you signed a contract and then didn't hold up your end of the bargain you'd get sued for breach of contract. Can some legal scholar explain to me why this isn't an option for these primadonnas?

I wish all GMs would act as the Ottawa Senator's GM acted with Alexei Yashin. They refused to trade him and he ended up sitting a whole year because they also refused to let him play for any other team. (he did practice with a team in Switzerland cuz you can't stop someone from practicing.)

Take a hard line is what I say, if all the GMs in all the sports decided they'd had enough and stopped negotiating with these scum the hold outs would stop pretty damn quick. I say if Branch or anyone else doesn't want to play for this team they can rot on the sidelines for all I care, I would be 1000% behind management.

I would agree with you if GMs didn't threaten to cut players unless they renegotiate their contracts to save money. It's a 2 way street.

 

[Gopats!!!]

Agree with the OP.

It's even worse when the player plays dumb (dumber?) and says "I can't wait to get out there!" and all the other nonsense.

Rookie contracts are basically figured out before the player is even drafted. They are making tons of $$$ before stepping on the field.

Not too mention, holdouts often result in crappy rookie years.

 

[AStack75]

I would agree with you if GMs didn't threaten to cut players unless they renegotiate their contracts to save money. It's a 2 way street.

Bumping a thread that was over a year old!?!? Have some free time today?

 

[MightyFooda]

Bumping a thread that was over a year old!?!? Have some free time today?

Don't blame me, the only reason I saw it was because it was listed under the New Posts.