People Who Hold Out = Scum

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

That's my personal opinion, I've ALWAYS hated hold outs, they're scum in my book. In any other business in the civilized world if you signed a contract and then didn't hold up your end of the bargain you'd get sued for breach of contract. Can some legal scholar explain to me why this isn't an option for these primadonnas?

I wish all GMs would act as the Ottawa Senator's GM acted with Alexei Yashin. They refused to trade him and he ended up sitting a whole year because they also refused to let him play for any other team. (he did practice with a team in Switzerland cuz you can't stop someone from practicing.)

Take a hard line is what I say, if all the GMs in all the sports decided they'd had enough and stopped negotiating with these scum the hold outs would stop pretty damn quick. I say if Branch or anyone else doesn't want to play for this team they can rot on the sidelines for all I care, I would be 1000% behind management.

 

[DefenseRules]

Wow!!

 

[edgecy]

That's kinda harsh, but damn, I just can't bring myself to disagree with you.

 

[mavfan2390]

Amen Brotha. I'm still waiting for the CBA to say that rookie contracts can not be renegotiated a la NBA (actually the NBA does this for ALL contracts). But I guess it's a pipe dream because the players union would never allow it. How can players that earn money most people can only dream of hold out for more and more? Selfishness is disgusting.

 

[IUCPF]

That's my personal opinion, I've ALWAYS hated hold outs, they're scum in my book. In any other business in the civilized world if you signed a contract and then didn't hold up your end of the bargain you'd get sued for breach of contract. Can some legal scholar explain to me why this isn't an option for these primadonnas?

I wish all GMs would act as the Ottawa Senator's GM acted with Alexei Yashin. They refused to trade him and he ended up sitting a whole year because they also refused to let him play for any other team. (he did practice with a team in Switzerland cuz you can't stop someone from practicing.)

Take a hard line is what I say, if all the GMs in all the sports decided they'd had enough and stopped negotiating with these scum the hold outs would stop pretty damn quick. I say if Branch or anyone else doesn't want to play for this team they can rot on the sidelines for all I care, I would be 1000% behind management.

I understand your position. But, do you also hate front offices that cut players before their contracts are up?

 

[Murphys95]

That's my personal opinion, I've ALWAYS hated hold outs, they're scum in my book. Can some legal scholar explain to me why this isn't an option for these primadonnas?

So I assume you think that Richard Seymour is scum? He held out from camp last year.

 

[wistahpatsfan]

I understand your position. But, do you also hate front offices that cut players before their contracts are up?

The rule about cutting players is known to both sides, but I see a trend developing where players are getting grossly underpaid, like Branch. I think the rules of the CBA will be ammended to adapt to both tactics, and it will add to more stable rosters. I'm getting tired of losing players like Givens and Law and seeing these holdouts because of these rules.

 

[Remix 6]

Seymour, Branch and Watson are all scums in that case! lets cut them all before they ever get a chancce to hold out again

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Great, then don't root for Branch when he comes back. I love the, "In any other business," line Like playing in the NFL and helping bring joy to thousands of people is the same thing as being the manager of The Gap. Players can hold out because they know hypocrites like you will ***** and moan on message boards and then go out and buy their jersey when they sign a six-year deal. Is Seymour scum? He held out so I'm assuming you no longer root for him, right? How's that for harsh?

 

[Kdo5]

So I assume you think that Richard Seymour is scum? He held out from camp last year.

I hate all holdouts. I'd problably have insulted Seymour last year and called him stuff for his actions. But when its all done and we have him for more years and everyone is happy, its all good.

But put into consideration, Deion Branch is hardly the player Richard Seymour is. Richard Seymour is a HUGE part of our defense, to lose him would be very bad. Branch needs to get his act together. Hes not near as good as the elite recievers in the NFL. Reggie Wayne is fully capable of being a good #1, which he will be eventually. But hell, thats the Indianapolis Colts, they over pay their stars. They give their five stars or so enormous contracts that eat up a huge part of the salary cap. The rest of the team just doesnt get a good amount of money. The Patriots are smart. They didnt slap a huge contract on David Givens, they didnt do it on Randel El did they? No because those guys are decent recievers at best. I always hear "The Patriots chose to keep Branch over Givens so pay the guy." Not overpay. Lets just over pay the guy who has never posted 1000 yards, never caught more than 5 TD's a season. When it all comes down to it, Branch isnt half as worth Seymour. Branch should get some nice money, he is our #1 and proved he can be a good player but Reggie Wayne money...he isnt worth that. We need Deion Branch because our number of recievers who have actually had experience is weak. Throwing a rookie + Caldwell @ starter if Branch holds out into the season isnt going to be good. Thats why we want him to sign so badly to a new contract.

Overall I think its Branch's agent who has been a whole lot more obnoxious than Deion so far. The only person who has talked is the agent. I wont say Branch is necesarily scum yet. His agent is scum.

As far as I know Branch has always been polite and respectfull towards his coaches and team mates. His agent is the one putting fuel in the fire.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Dudes, I've been a Pats fan for a while now, you think I didn't know about Richie Rich holding out last year?

The answer to your question is Yes, I think he's scum. I think all hold outs are scum. ALL not just the ones I meantion, ALL A-L-L!!!!!

I also love pricks who defend them, ya cuz these guys give a **** about you man.

Great, then don't root for Branch when he comes back. I love the, "In any other business," line Like playing in the NFL and helping bring joy to thousands of people is the same thing as being the manager of The Gap.

What the Hell does that have to do with anything? I'm talking "legally" moron.

Players can hold out because they know hypocrites like you will ***** and moan on message boards and then go out and buy their jersey when they sign a six-year deal.

Um, no. I wouldn't wear a Seymore or a Branch jersey for free, I wouldn't wear it if you paid me.

Is Seymour scum? He held out so I'm assuming you no longer root for him, right?

No, I don' root for him, I root for the team. Something he wasn't thinking about when he held out.

Boy, I think you might be legally ******ed (Classic SNL Celebrity Jeopardy Quote -Ed.)

How's that for harsh?

Overall I think its Branch's agent who has been a whole lot more obnoxious than Deion so far.

I don't care about "obnoxious" or not, I'm not saying Branch is T.O. I'm saying the guy is effectively giving the finger to his team, his teammates, and all the fans of Patriot Nation by holding out. Also, holding out makes him a liar. A Contract is a promise, and he's breaking that promise. How people could respect that I'll never know.

Overall I think its Branch's agent who has been a whole lot more obnoxious than Deion so far.

I don't support it. The only caviat being if it is written in the contract that this can occur. Some contracts have a termination clause, perfectly ok if the player signs it. I doubt very highly contracts have a "hold out" clause.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Great, then don't root for Branch when he comes back. I love the, "In any other business," line Like playing in the NFL and helping bring joy to thousands of people is the same thing as being the manager of The Gap. Players can hold out because they know hypocrites like you will ***** and moan on message boards and then go out and buy their jersey when they sign a six-year deal. Is Seymour scum? He held out so I'm assuming you no longer root for him, right? How's that for harsh?

Dang IRB. Somebody get out of the wrong side of the bed? The guy is just gettin' some discussion goin' during the dog days of summer. No need to blow a gasket on the poor guy.

 

[sdaniels7114]

Its gonna be like 95 and humid on Wednesday, not to mention last week's weather. If I was him, I'd be 'holding out' to stay out of that... cough, cough, I mean I'd be holding out for more money if I were him too

Its not like they've changed the definition of a fly or post pattern or that Brady's gonna be throwing the ball with a left-handed spin this year. Between the off-season conditioning programs, minicamps, training camp, and four preseason games, I think the vets are over taxed. Watch as Deion blows by some chump cornerback (who was right on time for camp) late in this year's Superbowl. All of the Deion hatorz will have forgotten about this wise move on his part by then

 

[dhamz]

Like it or not, holdouts are an expected and accepted part of the business of the NFL - they are anticipated by both teams and players. That is why there are clauses in the CBA to deal with holdouts.

The Pats will do the same thing in the Branch situation they do in every situation - make cold calculating decisions devoid of emotion. Branch's agents words are irrelevant to the team - much like Ty Law's were a couple years ago. If at some point there is a chance to sign Branch to a long term deal that makes sense, they won't care about the holdout - much like took place with Seymour.

Right now this is the most overrated story going. A guy who the team limits greatly in TC and doesn't play during the preseason isn't in camp.

Big deal.

 

[PATSNUTme]

NSPF, I've notice a hard edge to your post since your return.

I think it's awesome! I don't agree with this one but you are now not shying away from the "danger zone".

If a player holds out for a while during the off pre-season, I don't have a problem with that. That is the only beverage that they have during negotiation.

If it get's to the last preseon game and 1st reg season game then I have a real problem with that player.

A guy like Branch can miss 2 -3 weeks of pre-season and not miss a beat- if he is working out on his own.

 

[JR4]

......

A guy like Branch can miss 2 -3 weeks of pre-season and not miss a beat- if he is working out on his own.

I have a problem with this thinking. Of course Branch has the knowledge and
skills to pick up the offense when he gets back.

What he CAN"T pick up is the team spirit, ... the cohesiveness ... the
chemistry ... that gets created in TC. Eventually he may get it as the
seaon progresses but until then he makes the team less than what it could
have been if he had been in TC building those bonds.
Team chemistry is a funny thing ... but i firmly believe it starts in TC.
BB has as much as confirmed that by the things he has done as a catalyst
to get that chemistry going.

This is where I think Brady should be more negative in his statements about
Branch holding out. Sure he's his buddy but he shouldn't make it sound like
... it's no problem ... he'll pick it back up. That just encourages Branch to
be continue to be stupid as Jerry Rice would say.

I do not think of hold outs as Scum but I believe they are a negative factor
in the team building process.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Ive said if before (and I got railed on for it here) and I'll say it again. Branch is not bigger than this team. If he doesn't agree to terms and get back in camp, BB needs to trade this guy and move on. Since when did Branch turn into Jerry Rice? The hell with him.

 

[Mainefan]

Football is a business, both for the front office and the players. Each is trying to maximize their return and why not? It doesn't seem fair for a player to ignore his contract, but if management still wants him after that, then management was underpaying him before the holdout.

Holdouts are not one-way streets. There are two participants and both of them have a share in causing a holdout. Management could have acted proactively, for instance, and approached a player who was being underpaid and, without being asked, offered an adjustment.

On the other hand, I think players are very subject to agents' praise and contract encouragement. Blandishments, I think the word is. We're all vulnerable to compliments, and when millions of dollars might come with them--well, who could resist that?

Agents have nothing to lose, and money to make. Sometimes, their knowledge is very helpful to a young player who doesn't know his true value or how to ask for it. But sometimes they take advantage of these very players.

I don't know the details, of course, but from all I know of Deion Branch, I think he may be something of a victim here, being used by his agent and not the other way around.

At any rate, calling people who hold out "scum" makes it sound like you think the whole thing is for you, and you have a right not to be disappointed. My advice: look up the meaning of the word "spectator."

 

[atlpatsfan]

That's my personal opinion, I've ALWAYS hated hold outs, they're scum in my book. In any other business in the civilized world if you signed a contract and then didn't hold up your end of the bargain you'd get sued for breach of contract. Can some legal scholar explain to me why this isn't an option for these primadonnas?

I wish all GMs would act as the Ottawa Senator's GM acted with Alexei Yashin. They refused to trade him and he ended up sitting a whole year because they also refused to let him play for any other team. (he did practice with a team in Switzerland cuz you can't stop someone from practicing.)

Take a hard line is what I say, if all the GMs in all the sports decided they'd had enough and stopped negotiating with these scum the hold outs would stop pretty damn quick. I say if Branch or anyone else doesn't want to play for this team they can rot on the sidelines for all I care, I would be 1000% behind management.

I agree in some respects but lets face facts, these are not "real world" contracts. You are right in the real world people sign contracts and then have to live up to them or get sued. So what about every player that has been cut from a team when they have years left on thier contract? I'm not talking about players who are hurt and unable to play, or even players that failed to perform as expected. I mean players that are just cut because they are costing too much money or the team just doesn't want them anymore. If one side is not required to live up to the contract why should the other side be?

...Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

If a player holds out for a while during the off pre-season, I don't have a problem with that. That is the only beverage that they have during negotiation.

If it get's to the last preseon game and 1st reg season game then I have a real problem with that player.

A guy like Branch can miss 2 -3 weeks of pre-season and not miss a beat- if he is working out on his own.

Agreed.

For me, I draw the line with holding out during the regular season. Branch could hold out the entire preseason, including all the exhibition games and as long as he's there for WK #1, I have no problem.