Pats worthy of Number Retirement

[borg]

I'm sure there is a thread out there that already discusses players' numbers we deem worthy of retirement, but since Big Willie has made this this topic current again, let's give it a go. For the sake of discussion, I'm only including players that have been a part of this Super Bowl run. (And I'm disregarding any Patriots' policies about number retirement)
On Offense, only two players are worthy. Brady is a lock, and Troy Brown would be my sentimental choice. Troy may not have the stats, but his longevity and ultimate team-first sacrifices are qualities that should be looked up to and honored.
On defense, three players are easy choices, McGinest, Seymour, and Bruschi...and two players are on the bubble, Vrabel and Harrison. Willie and Teddy get the nod because of longevity, playmaking, and leadership. Big Sey's inclusion is absolute with no discussion necessary. The day he cracked the starting lineup is the day the Pats D became dominant. Vrabel's inclusion may be worthy but it is difficult to ignore the fact that he began his career with another team. Rodney's talent is certainly worthy, but the fact that he only was part of two SBs and most of his career was spent in San Diego will keep him from being honored.
Special Teams...Adam V deserves his number retired because if history remembers only one thing about this great Pats run, it will be how a clutch kicker delivered for the Pats time after time. Like it or not, Adam's kicks are the signature plays for this dynasty.

 

[Slagathor]

I'm sure there is a thread out there that already discusses players' numbers we deem worthy of retirement, but since Big Willie has made this this topic current again, let's give it a go. For the sake of discussion, I'm only including players that have been a part of this Super Bowl run. (And I'm disregarding any Patriots' policies about number retirement)
On Offense, only two players are worthy. Brady is a lock, and Troy Brown would be my sentimental choice. Troy may not have the stats, but his longevity and ultimate team-first sacrifices are qualities that should be looked up to and honored.
On defense, three players are easy choices, McGinest, Seymour, and Bruschi...and two players are on the bubble, Vrabel and Harrison. Willie and Teddy get the nod because of longevity, playmaking, and leadership. Big Sey's inclusion is absolute with no discussion necessary. The day he cracked the starting lineup is the day the Pats D became dominant. Vrabel's inclusion may be worthy but it is difficult to ignore the fact that he began his career with another team. Rodney's talent is certainly worthy, but the fact that he only was part of two SBs and most of his career was spent in San Diego will keep him from being honored.
Special Teams...Adam V deserves his number retired because if history remembers only one thing about this great Pats run, it will be how a clutch kicker delivered for the Pats time after time. Like it or not, Adam's kicks are the signiture plays for this dynasty.

IMHO, you gotta be an NFL HOFer to have your number retired.

Brady will get that Honor, I think as will Vinatieri.

 

[mcbee]

If you retire all those numbers, soon there will be no numbers for players. Retiring a number becasue of "longevity and leadership"? Retiring a kicker's number?

Other than Brady, I wouldn't think any merit retirement. Not even close.

 

[BelichickFan]

Number 12. No others. Sure as hell not number 4.

 

[borg]

IMHO, you gotta be an NFL HOFer to have your number retired.

Brady will get that Honor, I think as will Vinatieri.

I disagree. The Patriots should not let outside forces control the criterion for number retirement. This should be an honor bestowed on the players by the organization, not subjected to the whims of the National Media.

 

[milwaukeebeers44]

I have a very strict thing for number retirement. My criteria, in no particular order include:

1) Absolute, measurable impact on the Patriots success.

2) HOF-worthy individual statistics (both NFL or Patriot HOF).

3) Spent a majority of their career with the Patriots.

4) Sportsmanship, charity, and other "intangibles" that set them apart from the rest of the players in red, white, and blue.

I don't think Rodney deserves a Patriot number retirement. He simply was not/will not be a Patriot for long enough. He was defined as a player during his time with the Chargers.

Seymour- we've got to wait awhile for him. Brady, too. They're still in the young part of their careers.

Retiring a number is a special thing. It is to be earned, not given. I think too many numbers retired not only makes less numbers available for the team, but also kind of cheapens their value.

I see the case for Willie and Adam. I think it will depend on how long they play with other teams.

My only "lock" among active players right now is Tedy Bruschi.

 

[TaxPlaya]

There was an excellent article in the Boston Globe awhile back on this. The best system is probably the Green Bay Packers system.

They have a three-tiered system to honor players:

1. The Very Good (Vrabels and Harrisons). Team Hall of Fame with a little stadium museum connected to the pro shop.

2. The Great (Bruschis and TBrowns). Ring of Honor around the stadium, as well as team HOF.

3. The Legends (Bradys and Seymours). Must make NFL HOF. Jersey can be retired, ring of honor, and team hall of fame.

The questionable jersey retirings can be grandfathered in to avoid a fracas.

 

[Brownfan80]

Tedy, Brady. That's it.

 

[Slagathor]

There was an excellent article in the Boston Globe awhile back on this. The best system is probably the Green Bay Packers system.

They have a three-tiered system to honor players:

1. The Very Good (Vrabels and Harrisons). Team Hall of Fame with a little stadium museum connected to the pro shop.

2. The Great (Bruschis and TBrowns). Ring of Honor around the stadium, as well as team HOF.

3. The Legends (Bradys and Seymours). Must make NFL HOF. Jersey can be retired, ring of honor, and team hall of fame.

The questionable jersey retirings can be grandfathered in to avoid a fracas.

Nice idea. But I do have a bone to pick.

Harrison, just very good? I think Rodney's a potential HOF but he'll end up just short. He'll eventually make it in through the HOF veterans committee.

 

[BelichickFan]

The mere mention of Vinatraitor here makes me sick to my stomach. He had the chance to be a Patriots' legend - despite being a stupid kicker - and passed on it while being a ****y smart ass with that stupid grin about how he never even told the Patriots who or how much he was negotiating with. No way in hell if I got a say in the matter.

 

[borg]

I'm just curious as to why a couple posters feel Bruschi is more qualified than Mcginest. Personally, I view the two as near equals...talented playmakers a notch below HOF, willing to sacrifice salary or restructure (Let's see what Teddy will do at the end of his career)and great leaders on the field and in the lockeroom.

 

[Slagathor]

Exactly. We are talking Pats retirement, not NFL HOF , etc.

The four I mentioned are all worthy of being nominated because of the extras they all performed for the PATRIOTS during the years of Pats prominence, which is still continuing today.

It is not so much for stats, but for HEART and the EXTRA Mile they walked when asked to do so.

Then you end up in a situation like the Celts, where EVERYBODY got their number retired.

Retiring a number should be based upon stellar performance in the NFL. You gotta be a SPECIAL player

For the other guys like Tippett, Grogan, Bruschi and Troy Brown, put their names up on a large ring of honor on the inside of the stadium.

 

[mikey]

While Brady's "number" will be retired, I don't think Brady will play his last game as a Patriot.

It is just the way this organization is.


.

 

[borg]

Another question, why are some posters so worried about the amount of numbers available for the roster. By my estimates, the Pats could retire 30 more numbers and still not have worries. The "Let's limit number of retirements so as not to interfere with bureaucratic issues" seems so trivial and not worthy of fan worry.

 

[belichickaholic]

bruschi
mcginest
seymour
vrabel
all four have been with us since 01.

If we win another one this year, (please, God?) then I have to add Wilson, Samuel and Branch and Koppen.

brady
faulk
brown
light

vinitieri

 

[Brownfan80]

I'm just curious as to why a couple posters feel Bruschi is more qualified than Mcginest. Personally, I view the two as near equals...talented playmakers a notch below HOF, willing to sacrifice salary or restructure (Let's see what Teddy will do at the end of his career)and great leaders on the field and in the lockeroom.

Easy. Tedy will end up retiring a Patriot. Willie went for the $bucks$ in Cleveland. That puts a big red X on his forehead for me.

 

[Alk]

How can everyone forget #90?

 

[DarrylS]

Bruschi, Brady and Troy Brown for certain.

Probably, bordering on a lock, Seymour, Vrabel and McGinnest.

When you go into the stadium and see the posters of Nelson, Morgan and the rest of the crew brings back great memories... the guys will do the same, probably more so. The number retired is not important, there are 100 numbers to choose from, give credit where credit is due.

 

[borg]

Easy. Tedy will end up retiring a Patriot. Willie went for the $bucks$ in Cleveland. That puts a big red X on his forehead for me.

That's what you hope happens, but you can't assume that. After Teddy's stroke, I seem to remember a few quotes about having to "take care of the family", and "football is a business".
Come to think of it, besides Ted Johnson, who recently has retired as a lifelong Pat? Times have changed.

 

[TaxPlaya]

Nice idea. But I do have a bone to pick.

Harrison, just very good? I think Rodney's a potential HOF but he'll end up just short. He'll eventually make it in through the HOF veterans committee.

Harrison is in the very good category only because of his short tenure here.