Pats worthy of Number Retirement

[TaxPlaya]

Another question, why are some posters so worried about the amount of numbers available for the roster. By my estimates, the Pats could retire 30 more numbers and still not have worries. The "Let's limit number of retirements so as not to interfere with bureaucratic issues" seems so trivial and not worthy of fan worry.

The problem is not with the entire roster (you're right in that so long as you have no more than 40 or so retired you're good).

The problem is with certain decades of numbers. The 50s, for instance.

Suppose we retired Tippett, Nelson, McGinest, Bruschi, Colvin, Ted Johnson. That only leaves 4 numbers left for linebackers. That isn't enough.

Now, that's an extreme case, but play it out for 20 or so years of new star Pats linebackers and you have a roster crisis on your hands.

 

[Brownfan80]

That's what you hope happens, but you can't assume that. After Teddy's stroke, I seem to remember a few quotes about having to "take care of the family", and "football is a business".
Come to think of it, besides Ted Johnson, who recently has retired as a lifelong Pat? Times have changed.

I guess you're right, but I'm just going off of Tedy's Age and contract situation. I'm not sure that he's set himself up for another FA big payday. He'll be 35 when he hits FA again won't he? I hope he does retire a Pat, but I do think it's set up to be a plausible reality. Especially considering he's never been a player to demand huge money.

I actually wonder if Tedy's pissed that he took less money a few years ago to stay with the Pats and his LB mates only to see most of the ones he was used to leave or retire. McG, TJ, Phifer. Good thing Vrabes is still around. And Colvin too I guess.

 

[CrazyDave]

Another question, why are some posters so worried about the amount of numbers available for the roster. By my estimates, the Pats could retire 30 more numbers and still not have worries.

Are you sure about that?
Regardless, I'm liking the whole "Ring of Honor" idea.

 

[borg]

The problem is not with the entire roster (you're right in that so long as you have no more than 40 or so retired you're good).

The problem is with certain decades of numbers. The 50s, for instance.

Suppose we retired Tippett, Nelson, McGinest, Bruschi, Colvin, Ted Johnson. That only leaves 4 numbers left for linebackers. That isn't enough.

Now, that's an extreme case, but play it out for 20 or so years of new star Pats linebackers and you have a roster crisis on your hands.

So to be a crisis, are you saying that the NFL wouldn't allow the Pats to have LB's because of a lack of jersey numbers.

 

[brady2brown]

I'm just curious as to why a couple posters feel Bruschi is more qualified than Mcginest.

The two aren't related in my mind. Tedy Bruschi I think is worthy of having his number retired whether or not McGinest is.

Willie McGinest had some very bad years. Also, would the Pats retire the number of a guy they didn't even try to protect in the Texans expansion draft? He was one of six players left exposed. (Not related to his Patriots career, but note that the Texans didn't want him.) I don't think Willie McGinest is worthy of retiring his number whether or not Tedy Bruschi is.

 

[mcbee]

So to be a crisis, are you saying that the NFL wouldn't allow the Pats to have LB's because of a lack of jersey numbers.

I don't think so. They could have linebackers, there just wouldn't be numbers for them.

So let's retire 20 players numbers. Then in 15 years they'll be another crop of 15-20 players who have been "leaders" and "good players". So retire their numbers too. Pretty soon you run out of numbers, which may not be a problem except that it indicates that what you are doing is watering down a rare tradition by giving it to everyone who is a "good player".

Retiring numbers should be an extrememly rare event. Troy Brown? Vinitieri?

 

[AzPatsFan]

IMHO, you gotta be an NFL HOFer to have your number retired.

Brady will get that Honor, I think as will Vinatieri.

Yes, I agree. Only players elected to the Hall of Fame should be eligible to have their numbers retired. And even then it should not be automatic.

There are three Pats in the HOF. Hannah 73, Spike Haynes 40 and Nick Buoniconti 85. Currently 73 and 40 are retired while 85 is not. Why? Because Nick finished his career in Miami and won fame as the defensive captain of the "Killer Bees" Defense that won a coup;e of Super bowls But he played the majority of his career and earned All time AFL player as a Patriot. Yet Mike Haynes played the majority of his career with Oakland but has a retired Patriot number.

Meanwhile a bundle of others numbers are retired with little rhyme or reason.

For example Jim Lee Hunts 79 and a DE 'wahtizname #78 are retired. Yet neither was any where as good as the dean of that DL. Houston Antwine was the Seymour of that era and his number is NOT retired.

Absolutely makes no sense. The Patriots should start a "Ring of Honor" for these non HOF players, and unretire all the numbers, except for the HOF players.

 

[dryheat44]

#1...for the fans.

Why not? When's the last time anybody wore it? John Smith in the early 80s?

And I disagree that a player should be HoF to have a number retired. HoF should be IMO the higher honor. Andre Tippett's not likely going to the Hall-of-Fame. Bob Dee. Steve Grogan. Gino Cappelletti. Steve Nelson. Troy Brown. Julius Adams. Stanley Morgan. Houston Antwine. Leon Gray.

These are important players in Patriots history. I'm not suggesting they all should have numbers retired, but they're more integral to Patriots history than Haynes and Buoniconti, and should be recognized.

Apologize if this was already said. I'm lazy this afternoon.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

#1...for the fans.

Why not? When's the last time anybody wore it? John Smith in the early 80s?

Keron Henry in 2006. :singing:

 

[CrazyDave]

For example Jim Lee Hunts 79 and a DE 'wahtizname #78 are retired. Yet neither was any where as good as the dean of that DL. Houston Antwine was the Seymour of that era and his number is NOT retired.

#78, is'nt that Bruce Armstrong?

 

[PonyExpress]

The only Pats who should have their numbers retired are those who played their entire career with the Pats and are voted into the NFL Hall of Fame, period. From this team: only Brady and maybe Seymour. No one else need apply. Willie, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Ty Law, etc should be immortalized in the Patriots HOF with permanent exhibits.

 

[dryheat44]

The only Pats who should have their numbers retired are those who played their entire career with the Pats and are voted into the NFL Hall of Fame, period. From this team: only Brady and maybe Seymour. No one else need apply. Willie, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Ty Law, etc should be immortalized in the Patriots HOF with permanent exhibits.

So if Brady plays with NE until he's 37, winning three more Super Bowls, and then spends two years in San Francisco as a backup QB, he's out, right?

 

[primetime]

Retiring certain numbers is just not utilitarian because it drives down the numbers that can be worn by new players. 12 is fine. 4 is fine as you like it. 80 may be fine with the new regulations allowing receivers/tight ends to wear teens and apparently single digits, but 89 is already retired. That said, I couldn't see anyone but Troy in 80.

54 is a tougher one. 57 is already retired and 56 might as well be (it hasn't been issued since Tippett, has it?) Since linebackers can only wear 50's, then 90's, then finally 40's if both those are taken, that really limits the options. And who wants to see a starting linebacker with a number in the 40's? 40's are for preseason bubble guys on both sides of the ball, except for 44, and maybe 42 and 45, at least that's what I've always thought. Seymour, with 93, creates similar problems. Soon you'll have a bunch of defensive linemen wearing offensive linemen numbers.

Maybe just honoring their numbers and not retiring them except in extreme cases (see: Brady, Tom) is the best way to go, as the Patriots seem to have done with Tippett. You have to be granted one of those numbers rather than pick it if it's open. That's how the Maple Leafs do it in hockey, since they have about 15 "honored numbers" and 5 or so more retired ones. The Bruins, on the other hand, have retired around 15 numbers and now there are barely any single digits and very few teens left, so you have guys wearing non-hockeyish numbers.

 

[PonyExpress]

So if Brady plays with NE until he's 37, winning three more Super Bowls, and then spends two years in San Francisco as a backup QB, he's out, right?

Yes. He gets his Pats HOF memorial, and he goes into the NFL HOF, but no number retirement. He shouldn't tarnish his legacy like Emmitt Smith in Arizona.

 

[sieglo]

The Pats will put many players in the hall of fame. Only a select few of this group should have their number retired.

Of current Pats, only Brady qualifies for this honor.

 

[rabthepat]

Retiring numbers is a waste. Give it 10 years and the player will be forgotten. Ask most Pat's fans under 30 who John Hannah was and they'll give you a lost look.

It would be better to name a Taco Bell taco or burrito after a player then retire his number.

 

[primetime]

Retiring numbers is a waste. Give it 10 years and the player will be forgotten. Ask most Pat's fans under 30 who John Hannah was and they'll give you a lost look.

It would be better to name a Taco Bell taco or burrito after a player then retire his number.

Uh oh, jaded old guy alert. Those damn kids, with all their Taco Bell.