Pats tweet: Hernandez released

[Dutchmaster617]

Where did I label him a murderer? I said if the "charge" is murder he wont get bail. You said "he would be out on bail"

"Twiter or not nobody" LOL You sound smart.

I was addressing everyone in general acting like he is doing life guaranteed.

 

[Miguel]

Thanks, as always, Miguel. Question: what are the chances there's a criminal activity/morals clause, etc., in the contract that the team can invoke to void all or part of his contract?

There is a chance which is why my 1st question is
1.) Can the Patriots go after the $10,050,000 of Aaron's remaining signing bonus proration even after they waived him today?

 

[LikeUntoGod]

I'm sure the Patriots know something. All NFL teams have inner security staffs.

I've also read on NFL.com that no one expects another team to claim him off of waivers.

 

[thenepatsrule]

Massachusetts prisons have a football league?

 

[Bruins29]

I was addressing everyone in general acting like he is doing life guaranteed.

I have not seen a post like that. But, who cares. He will never play for us again anyway. And, back to the point of bail, which was the point. It depends on the charges.

The guy is a loser.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

For the time being, I am presuming the worst for the Patriots 2013 cap. That is, I am presuming that his 2013 and 2014 salaries will hit the Patriots 2103 cap because they were guaranteed and that Aaron did enough to earn his $82,000 offseason workout bonus money. In a couple of days I should be able to find out Aaron's true cap hit and not rely on my amateur interpretations of the CBA. Based on my interpretation of Article 13, Section 6, (d) Guaranteed Contracts ,paragraph (iv) - Any portion of Salary guaranteed for any period after a player is released
for a reason covered by the guarantee (e.g., future years' guaranteed Salary, when the player is released for a reason covered by the guarantee) shall be immediately included in Team Salary at the time of his release at its present value rate calculated using the Discount Rate" if Aaron's 2014 salary which was guaranteed hits the Patriots cap it will hit in 2013, not 2014.
These are the salary cap questions remaining about Aaron Hernandez

1.) Can the Patriots go after the $10,050,000 of Aaron's remaining signing bonus proration even after they waived him today?
2.)Are the Patriots on the hook for Aaron's 2013 and 2014 guaranteed salaries?
3.)Are the Patriots on the hook for Aaron's 2013 offseason workout bonus money?

See http://www.patscap.com/aaron.jpg
for a picture of Aaron's Cap Hits

I just looked at the CBA online and it's complicated, but the bolded language sort of sticks out. It suggests to me a couple of things -- In particular, that standard player contracts actually set forth "reasons" why future salary would be guaranteed. This obviously implies, by exclusion, that there are reasons when future salary would not be guaranteed. According to this clause, the team must include future years' guaranteed salaries if, but only if, the reason for the release was one of the ennumerated reasons set forth in the player contract regarding the guarantee.

I have no idea what the reasons are in a guarantee. Injury, no doubt, and probably lots of others. Does anyone have a sample standard player contract? It's hard to believe that, if there in fact reasons why future salary would be guaranteed, incarceration or charge on a felony is one of them.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I just looked at the CBA online and it's complicated, but the bolded language sort of sticks out. It suggests to me a couple of things -- In particular, that standard player contracts actually set forth "reasons" why future salary would be guaranteed. This obviously implies, by exclusion, that there are reasons when future salary would not be guaranteed. According to this clause, the team must include future years' guaranteed salaries if, but only if, the reason for the release was one of the ennumerated reasons set forth in the player contract regarding the guarantee.

I have no idea what the reasons are in a guarantee. Injury, no doubt, and probably lots of others. Does anyone have a sample standard player contract? It's hard to believe that, if there in fact reasons why future salary would be guaranteed, incarceration or charge on a felony is one of them.

Typically contracts are guaranteed against skill (i.e., they have to pay you even if they find a more talented player) and/or against injury (they have to pay you even if you tear your ACL and can never play again).

Without knowing exactly what Hernandez's contract says, there's no way to know for sure.

It's not even clear there was a clause allowing them to recoup the signing bonus at all (IIRC, the CBA doesn't provide an automatic mechanism for doing so, merely a possible one).

 

[PatsFanSince74]

This is a New England Patriots forum and I am not going to apologize for discussing how this event impacts the team in the upcoming season. Your sanctimony would be better served in another forum and if Aaron Hernandez was not involved then neither you, me nor anyone else in here would have ever heard of or cared a single thing about Odin Lloyd.

You don't have to apologize or even think about apologizing to me or anyone. We just see this situation differently. I see the obsession over what this means for the Patriots and for "our" offseason as juvenile and absurd. But, you are entitled to disagree, though preferably without throwing around words like "sanctimony."

It doesn't matter what I or anyone else would or would not have cared about Mr. Lloyd under other circumstances. He could have been a cross between Albert Einstein and Mother Theresa or between Jack the Ripper and Genghis Khan. He was still murdered and, as a human, he does matter.

As for your suggestion regarding "sanctimony," well, that was exactly my reaction to your post. So, i think I'll let the large and growing number of "Likes" that my post has received speak for themselves. Ain't Free Speech great!

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

There is a chance which is why my 1st question is
1.) Can the Patriots go after the $10,050,000 of Aaron's remaining signing bonus proration even after they waived him today?

Here is what the CBA says:

"Credit for Salary Forfeited or Refunded. In the event that a Club
receives a refund from the player of any previously-paid Salary, or the Club fails to pay any previously allocated portion of a signing bonus (including any amount treated as signing bonus), such amount as has previously been included in Team Salary shall be credited to the Club's Team Salary for the next League Year. For purposes of this Sub*section, to the extent that they constitute reimbursement for previously paid Salary, insurance proceeds received by a Team as beneficiary to cover the player's inability to perform services required by his Player Contract shall be deemed a "refund from the player" if (a) the Club or the player purchased the policy (b) the amounts covered by the policy are so specified in the Player Contract; and (c) the policy is made available for inspection upon request by the NFL or the NFLP A."

So, I would read this as saying that, so long as the money already has been paid (which surely it has), the team must actually get it back from the player in the form of a "refund" in order to take the credit. This means two things: (1) there must be a provision in the player contract that makes the money refundable, and (2) they must actually get a check. Would an uncollectible judgment be enough -- that is, if they sued him, won, and get a judgment but did not collect it because he does not have enough assets, would they get a credit. Unclear. I would interpret the contract to say no. But the league might be have power under another portion of the CBA to make exceptions or grant waivers.

The Patriots will never get a "refund" from Herndandez if he's incarcerated. Even if he had $12 million sitting around (which he surely doesn't after paying his agent and taxes), he will get hit with restitution from the victim's families and he has to pay lawyers.

The insurance stuff is more interesting. Do clubs buy policies that insure them in case players get incarcerated? Possibly.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, count me in the minority of Pats Fans who feel bad for the everyone involved. I don't think it is "great" we released him, especially if he is found not guilty…however or if ever that were to happen.

31 other teams are snickering to themselves because of our misfortune. Wes Welker is shaking his head somewhere. This arguably may be the most tragic story of a Boston area athlete with the exception of Len Bias. Nothing to feel good about here...

I take exception to comparing this case to that of Len Bias. Ingesting a drug, legal or illegal, is on a different plane from murdering someone or participating in the coverup of a murder.

 

[Hazy]

The insurance stuff is more interesting. Do clubs buy policies that insure them in case players get incarcerated? Possibly.

Insurance is interesting, it may save Kraft some money in his back pocket but their is no insurance for Cap hits tho

 

[TruthSeeker]

I'm not saying it's right, but the Ravens set a precedent in the NFL about how this type of situation is handled. And we just did the opposite. That's not going to sit well with folks who think they did the right thing, especially since Hernandez STILL doesn't look as guilty as Ray Lewis (yet.) He might by the end of it, but at this point the charges aren't even out there.

My kneejerk reaction was that they released him too soon, but then I realized that I've always hated the NFL and the Ravens for glorifying Ray Lewis. So in the interest of not being a hypocrite, I revised my opinion after 5 minutes of thought.

Well, Ray Lewis didn't and doesn't (IMO) look guilty of murder at all. His friends are a different story.

Only time will tell about Hernandez.

 

[RobAllan]

Well, Ray Lewis didn't and doesn't (IMO) look guilty of murder at all. His friends are a different story.

Only time will tell about Hernandez.

You may not believe Ray Lewis was guilty, but when that business all started up he looked VERY guilty to pretty much everyone. So let's not jump the shark on that. Given the way most of the stories surrounding that gradually disappeared along with articles of clothing, a lot of rational people still think he looks VERY guilty. I am in the camp that would agree with them entirely, although, I would understand someone have a dissenting opinion. I get why you might think he wasn't, but in the early moments of that ordeal, practically nobody assumed innocence.

However, in the interest of not starting a wild derail of old news, I will say that the broader point is that being involved with that stuff is reason enough alone to release a player in good conscience. Whether you're the triggerman/knifeman or not. Lewis should've been canned then and AH should've been canned now.

 

[Rob0729]

I will give the Pats credit that if their security people did find that Hernandez was very much in deep in this murder that they cut him loose rather than doing the Ravens route and put the quality of the player on the field over the fact that their star players was knee deep in a double homicide.

 

[Guts]

Well this sucks....Rob battling injuries, Hernandez released and arrested, adding Tim freaking Tebow, and losing one of the best slot receivers of all time to a AFC threat to the Superbowl worst offseason ever...thank god we have Tom Brady


That being said its tragic what happened sympathies to the family of their loved one who got murdered and shame on Hermandez for possibly(not guilty yet) throwing out his football career out in just one bad decision whatever that may be

 

[RobAllan]

Well this sucks....Rob battling injuries, Hernandez released and arrested, adding Tim freaking Tebow, and losing one of the best slot receivers of all time to a AFC threat to the Superbowl worst offseason ever...thank god we have Tom Brady


That being said its tragic what happened sympathies to the family of their loved one who got murdered and shame on Hermandez for possibly(not guilty yet) throwing out his football career out in just one bad decision whatever that may be

The thing that bothers me most is that the worst case scenario from a decision perspective is that he may have made a lot more than one bad decision. ROFL Hanging out with the wrong crowd, being involved in drugs, murder, covering it up, obstructing the investigation... all with a newborn! My sincerest hope is justice for the family. My secondary hope is that by the time all is said-and-done, it will look like he made one bad decision only...

 

[SB39]

You don't have to apologize or even think about apologizing to me or anyone. We just see this situation differently. I see the obsession over what this means for the Patriots and for "our" offseason as juvenile and absurd.

Yeah. Sure. How dare we come to a football forum and discuss the impact on the team that our team's best (healthy) receiving threat is now gone.

 

[DocHoliday]

Best not to think what could have been. Just deal with the hand you've been given, it's all this team can do.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Insurance is interesting, it may save Kraft some money in his back pocket but their is no insurance for Cap hits tho

Yes, actually, there is. If a player cannot play because of an insured event, and you get coverage, you do not get charged with the cap charge on the insured amount. That's the point.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes, actually, there is. If a player cannot play because of an insured event, and you get coverage, you do not get charged with the cap charge on the insured amount. That's the point.

The main reason this doesn't happen more often is that, if I'm not mistaken, the premiums for such insurance also count against the salary cap.