Pats Running Backs

[mayoclinic]

Desperately trying to figure the reason for all the Spenser Larsen love. Larsen has rushed the ball just 17 times in his NFL career for 3.6 ypc and has ZERO rushing TD's. This is NOT a good resume for someone looking to be the SY/GL RB. On the other hand Kettani (finally got the spelling right on this one) had prolific success rushing the ball at Navy.

Hey for all we know Fiammetta will end up being THE guy, and his rushing stats are even worse that Larsen's. But on the other hand, they both have better NFL stats than Kettani, who doesn't have ANY. But right now he's the ONLY guy on the roster who has the physical stature to be a GL/SY RB AND has had success running the football.

I never liked the Addai signing since he's just a more experienced, less talented and explosive version of Ridely/Vareen. He's insurance in case one of the kids fail. I get that, but if we didn't lose much in Bennie's regular rushing carries, we did lose his best skill which was as a SY/GL, who despite his lack of typical size, was very effective in that role.

Who knows, maybe Ridley could be that guy. Coming out of college that was one of the roles people thought he'd be good at. I'm just Brainstorming here.

BTW- Mayo, who is to say that Kettani might not be a very good Special teams player?

Sure, anything can happen. But here's the available options right now beyond Vereen, Ridley and Woodhead:

1. Addai. Like you, I never liked the Addai signing. I think he lost his explosion and was done 2 years ago. I had hopes the Pats would sign Tim Hightower, who I thought had a lot of upside assuming he recovers from his ACL injury.

2. Kettani. Has never played a down in the NFL. I doubt his rushing experience at Navy counts for much.

3. Bolden. Has nice size and athleticism, looks like a more athletic BJGE with more receiving ability. But he's a UDFA rookie, so it's hard to count on much.

4. Larsen. As you note, he hasn't toted the ball a lot. But (1) he converted from ILB, so it probably took him some time to develop, and (2) Josh McD knows him and presumably has some idea of his capabilities.

5. Fiammetta. Purely a blocking back from all reports, and a good one.

There's a good chance 1 of those guys makes the final 53. Possibly 2. It's also possible that the Pats pick up a veteran late in training camp cutdowns (I keep looking at the possibility of McDaniels picking up Knowshon Moreno if he's cut by Denver, though he's certainly not a goal line back). None of these guys is guaranteed a roster spot. And as you note, maybe Ridley could be the goal line back. We'll have a better idea in about 80 days.

 

[mayoclinic]

Update from Field Yates on Shane Vereen:

Offseason work aids RB Vereen - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Ring 6]

Desperately trying to figure the reason for all the Spenser Larsen love. Larsen has rushed the ball just 17 times in his NFL career for 3.6 ypc and has ZERO rushing TD's. This is NOT a good resume for someone looking to be the SY/GL RB. On the other hand Kettani (finally got the spelling right on this one) had prolific success rushing the ball at Navy.

Hey for all we know Fiammetta will end up being THE guy, and his rushing stats are even worse that Larsen's. But on the other hand, they both have better NFL stats than Kettani, who doesn't have ANY. But right now he's the ONLY guy on the roster who has the physical stature to be a GL/SY RB AND has had success running the football.

I never liked the Addai signing since he's just a more experienced, less talented and explosive version of Ridely/Vareen. He's insurance in case one of the kids fail. I get that, but if we didn't lose much in Bennie's regular rushing carries, we did lose his best skill which was as a SY/GL, who despite his lack of typical size, was very effective in that role.

Who knows, maybe Ridley could be that guy. Coming out of college that was one of the roles people thought he'd be good at. I'm just Brainstorming here.

BTW- Mayo, who is to say that Kettani might not be a very good Special teams player?

Those players are FBs. They aren't going to be running the ball.

 

[patchick]

Those players are FBs. They aren't going to be running the ball.

I don't think anybody imagines that the FBs were brought in to be feature backs. But it's a plus if the defense has to anticipate that they'll touch the ball a few times each game, a la Heath Evans.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not a big fan of the Joseph Addai signing, but FWIW Reiss had this to say in this morning's Quick Hits:

When all is said and done, wouldn’t be surprised if Joseph Addai is one of the Patriots’ best signings in free agency this year (contract here). Hearing positive things about Addai in recent weeks as the fit seems right -- a low-key, versatile, mentor-type professional to pair with younger backs Stevan Ridley and Shane Vereen, as well as Danny Woodhead.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[mayoclinic]

More on Shane Vereen:

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Shane Vereen is primed and ready for running back competition

Nice that Vereen signles out Addai for his mentoring. I remember in 2009 hoping that signing Fred Taylor would teach Laurence Maroney how to run - that one didn't work out so well.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Maroney ran for more yards than any back in Patriots history... just none of it past the line of scrimmage. Your classic 23-cuts-and-go kind of back....

 

[VJCPatriot]

Maroney ran for more yards than any back in Patriots history... just none of it past the line of scrimmage. Your classic 23-cuts-and-go kind of back....

LOL do we really need to bring up the 'dancing' in the backfield? Maroney's done, stick a fork in him. Let's move on. Moreno has had a similar career trajectory as Maroney. Denver will cut bait soon. Do we want a reclamation project?

No More Room for

 

[RayClay]

I'm not a big fan of the Joseph Addai signing, but FWIW Reiss had this to say in this morning's Quick Hits:



Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Good if true. I proposed this since we have a really green RB crew, especially if we give Bolden a shot since he has a heavy running style we could use.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick REALLY, REALLY likes to have veteran running backs as part of the 4-5 man running back unit. Addai and Woodhead fit the bill. I thought that we would add at least one vet. I see absolutely no reason for Addai not to make the squad, even if he inactive each week, and his role is as a mentor and as insurance. With 5 running backs, one is expected to be inactive.

The OPEN question is what Belichick will do with 5th RB/FB roster spot if it exists at all.

We are one over on roster spots on offense. One spot has to go. And, just BTW, the defense needs all its 25 roster spots (some would say that they need 26 or 27: 7 DL, 10 LB, 10 DB. I think that 25 and 25 is probably the right solution, at least for planning. Anything can happen with the last 3 roster spots.

3... QB
6... WR
5... RB
3... TE
9....OL
--------
26 Offense

 

[PatsFanInVa]

LOL do we really need to bring up the 'dancing' in the backfield? Maroney's done, stick a fork in him. Let's move on. Moreno has had a similar career trajectory as Maroney. Denver will cut bait soon. Do we want a reclamation project?

No More Room for

LOL... they do seem to love him in Denver... "KnowShow..."

Wouldn't put it past us. Wouldn't put anything past us. Hell, the "I love this signing!" types like Ocho seem just as able to foul up as the guy off the street, maybe moreso, once in NE.

One of the things about playing chess when everybody else is playing checkers is you have to figure out who's a knight, who's a rook, and who's an overpaid pawn.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think anybody imagines that the FBs were brought in to be feature backs. But it's a plus if the defense has to anticipate that they'll touch the ball a few times each game, a la Heath Evans.

The poster was stating he isn't excited about the players because of their rushing averages.
Personally, I think the defense does absolutely nothing to game plan for a hand off to the FB, and rather just expect their players to carry out their responsibilites. As a LB for example, you don't need to play differently, just read the play and tackle the ball carrier.

 

[patchick]

The poster was stating he isn't excited about the players because of their rushing averages.

It seemed relevant enough, given the context. A pure blocking fullback is about the cheapest commodity in the NFL today. Fiammetta is a good example -- considered one of the better lead blockers in the league, when healthy, and signed a 1-year minimum deal with no bonus.

Then Larsen comes in with a reputation as a McDaniels favorite, and a 2-year contract with a $250K bonus. (For comparison, Addai only got a $75K bonus.) Hardly a blockbuster deal, but enough to make the earlier poster do some digging to see if there might be some more to the player -- especially considering that the FB candidates might very well be competing with RBs like Addai and Bolden for a final backfield roster spot.

 

[Ring 6]

It seemed relevant enough, given the context. A pure blocking fullback is about the cheapest commodity in the NFL today. Fiammetta is a good example -- considered one of the better lead blockers in the league, when healthy, and signed a 1-year minimum deal with no bonus.

Then Larsen comes in with a reputation as a McDaniels favorite, and a 2-year contract with a $250K bonus. (For comparison, Addai only got a $75K bonus.) Hardly a blockbuster deal, but enough to make the earlier poster do some digging to see if there might be some more to the player -- especially considering that the FB candidates might very well be competing with RBs like Addai and Bolden for a final backfield roster spot.

I think anyone looking at Larsen being signed in order to run the ball is off track.
There are many, many other responsiblities he will/would have if he makes the squad, including run blocking, pass blocking, receiving and special teams, as well as possibly an emergency LB.
There are many better options to run the ball than Spencer Larsen, including the actual RBs on our roster.
It would be foolhardy to pay extra money to a player for a skill he is weak in but could do in an emergency.

 

[patchick]

I think anyone looking at Larsen being signed in order to run the ball is off track.
There are many, many other responsiblities he will/would have if he makes the squad, including run blocking, pass blocking, receiving and special teams, as well as possibly an emergency LB.
There are many better options to run the ball than Spencer Larsen, including the actual RBs on our roster.

Right you are. And the earlier poster did us all the service of looking up his rushing stats to prove it.

(Personally, I think Larsen's ST strength is the main thing -- it makes it a lot easier to make space for a FB on the gameday roster.)

 

[BlueThunder]

I think anyone looking at Larsen being signed in order to run the ball is off track.
There are many, many other responsiblities he will/would have if he makes the squad, including run blocking, pass blocking, receiving and special teams, as well as possibly an emergency LB.
There are many better options to run the ball than Spencer Larsen, including the actual RBs on our roster.
It would be foolhardy to pay extra money to a player for a skill he is weak in but could do in an emergency.

Can't disagree with any of the above. Not sure who said Larsen would make the final 53 due to his running skills. His versatility may get him a spot on the roster. Lead blocking and pass blocking probably are the 2 biggest reasons he could make the roster, unless BB decides another position's needs are greater and he uses an OL/TE in the backfield to pass block. BB has alot of tough decisions to make at quite a few positions this year. It's definately a good position to be in. Not many holes, at least on paper.

 

[Ring 6]

Right you are. And the earlier poster did us all the service of looking up his rushing stats to prove it.

(Personally, I think Larsen's ST strength is the main thing -- it makes it a lot easier to make space for a FB on the gameday roster.)

Agreed, FB is a luxury, and we use other active game day players there (Seymour, Fletcher, Connolly, Hochstein, etc). The FB makes himself active with st duties, so we can use a legit FB on the handful of plays he will actually participate in on offense.

 

[Ring 6]

Can't disagree with any of the above. Not sure who said Larsen would make the final 53 due to his running skills. His versatility may get him a spot on the roster. Lead blocking and pass blocking probably are the 2 biggest reasons he could make the roster, unless BB decides another position's needs are greater and he uses an OL/TE in the backfield to pass block. BB has alot of tough decisions to make at quite a few positions this year. It's definately a good position to be in. Not many holes, at least on paper.

This is the specific comment I was referring to:

Desperately trying to figure the reason for all the Spenser Larsen love. Larsen has rushed the ball just 17 times in his NFL career for 3.6 ypc and has ZERO rushing TD's

 

[mayoclinic]

This is the specific comment I was referring to:

That comment was partly in response to my post in which I suggested that Larsen could be a viable option at times in a short-yardage or goalline role. I doubt Larsen was signed for his abilit to carry the ball, but I wouldn't consider it a stretch to see a fullback used in those limited situations, both as a blocker and sometimes as the ball carrier.

 

[captain stone]

I'm not a big fan of the Joseph Addai signing, but FWIW Reiss had this to say in this morning's Quick Hits:



Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I also read that today, but I also disagree w/ Reiss. We already have Addai's skillset duplicated
w/ Woody & Vereen. A better option for that type of back would've been Hightower or - long a favorite
of mine - Mewelde Moore. A better option entirely would've been - and I realize that he's still unsigned,
so maybe there's a lingering injury issue of which I'm unaware - Ryan Grant.