PATS PICKER 2012 - now live

[patsinthesnow]

Why is it bashing that I think the guy who got cut a bunch of times isn't a quality player?
Ebner makes the team on special teams. That doesn't mean I consider him a better db.

Who beats out Brace at DL?
Cunningham was a full time stater as a rookie and played well. Being injured and not a great fit for the scheme we used last year makes him a waste of space?
Who beats out Barrett at S?

How could I predict UDFAs to make the team before they have put on a Patriot issued jockstrap?

You seem to be doingthis exercise based upon emotion.

1.) Giants vs Patriots Super Bowl Highlights 2012 espn - YouTube

2.) He was on my roster too, as the last man on, but it'd be nice for Forston to outshine him in camp or someone else.

3.) M. Carter has gone from 6'4 248 pounds to 6'4 260ish, gets paid 300,000 on the PS, and won numerous PS awards, he's unknown, but I think he'll show something.

4.) Why keep a 4th safety if he sucks?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't have Allen making the team either.

Cole doesnt need to beat him out as a corner to beat him out for a roster spot.
You were much more impressed than me by Moore. To me he looked like a guy who had been cut numerous times and was hanging on for a job. Even guys who can't make teams can make some plays, so I don't see it as if you do anything at all its good. He was very below average compared to NFL corners who play, in my opinion, while it seems you think I am saying entirely incomeptant.
6 is a huge # of corners. I'm not sure we have ever done that.

I'm not implying that you think hes incompetent. I am implying that you don't think Moore should be on the team and Cole should when you (as do I) already have Wilson, Gregory, Slater making the team as STers players/gunners.

With the way the league is now, having 7 CBs is a very real possibility but maybe it's more accurate to say that the Pats will have 7 players who can line up as "cover" guys. For example, Ihedibo is not a cover guy. Neither is Sergio Brown or Lockett. BB has put Chung as a cover guy in the slot but obviously vs bigger receivers and in some instances out of need.

FWIW, I think guys like Cunningham, Gonzalez, Ebner are bubble guys and Koppen, Brace and Pryor should make the team, but if hurt could be swapped out for a DB. I agree with almost all of your roster selections.

Bottom line is that they are loaded and we have a upper-class problems

 

[Patriot 37]

Read through people's rosters most of them are good.

A couple things suprised me Fiametta is getting a lot move love than Larsen. I believe Larson got a much bigger signing bouns than TF and is a McDaniel guy.

Suprised to see most people have Cole over Allen (STer over ability to play Safety) Right now he have Chung Gregory, STers and a rookie at S. I'd like to keep Allen.

Cunningham is on a lot of rosters and Scott isn't, minor suprise to me and for all of you that don't have Edelman on the team ? Please point out who are punter return is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Read through people's rosters most of them are good.

A couple things suprised me Fiametta is getting a lot move love than Larsen. I believe Larson got a much bigger signing bouns than TF and is a McDaniel guy.

Suprised to see most people have Cole over Allen (STer over ability to play Safety) Right now he have Chung Gregory, STers and a rookie at S. I'd like to keep Allen.

Cunningham is on a lot of rosters and Scott isn't, minor suprise to me and for all of you that don't have Edelman on the team ? Please point out who are punter return is.

PR is a major issue. The hope is that Woodhead could fill that role on the situational ones (inside 20) but hes never done it.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Please point out who are punter return is.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I doubt that Tracy White makes this team. He is a very good special teams player but I think that Larsen (can play ST, FB and LB) and/or Ebner (b/c he is The War Hammer) will end up beating him out as younger, cheaper options.

 

[Ring 6]

1.) Giants vs Patriots Super Bowl Highlights 2012 espn - YouTube

You are going to evaluate a player based on a highlgiht reel? Especially one where he gets beat deep on the most important drive of the SB and the season?

2.) He was on my roster too, as the last man on, but it'd be nice for Forston to outshine him in camp or someone else.

So for me to have him on the roster is bashing Moore, and for you to is what?

3.) M. Carter has gone from 6'4 248 pounds to 6'4 260ish, gets paid 300,000 on the PS, and won numerous PS awards, he's unknown, but I think he'll show something.

I think I like the guy who started and played pretty well his first year over the guy who added 12 pounds on the ps, but what does any of that have to do with Moore?

4.) Why keep a 4th safety if he sucks?

[/QUOTE]
Umm, because we need 4 safeties and he is the 4th (at least since we havent seen Wilson or Gregory) best we have.
Do you really want to keep a corner who wouldn't play until we had 2 injuries instead of a safety who plays if we have 1?

 

[Ring 6]

Read through people's rosters most of them are good.

A couple things suprised me Fiametta is getting a lot move love than Larsen. I believe Larson got a much bigger signing bouns than TF and is a McDaniel guy.

Suprised to see most people have Cole over Allen (STer over ability to play Safety) Right now he have Chung Gregory, STers and a rookie at S. I'd like to keep Allen.

Cunningham is on a lot of rosters and Scott isn't, minor suprise to me and for all of you that don't have Edelman on the team ? Please point out who are punter return is.

There are options for punt returner that can be worked out in preseason. Vereen, Gonzalez, Woodhead come to mind. Some of the DBs could do it.
I don't think we use a roster spot for a guy to just return punts when a bunch of other guys can do it.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not implying that you think hes incompetent. I am implying that you don't think Moore should be on the team and Cole should when you (as do I) already have Wilson, Gregory, Slater making the team as STers players/gunners.

You seem to think there are not 11 players on special teams.

With the way the league is now, having 7 CBs is a very real possibility but maybe it's more accurate to say that the Pats will have 7 players who can line up as "cover" guys. For example, Ihedibo is not a cover guy. Neither is Sergio Brown or Lockett. BB has put Chung as a cover guy in the slot but obviously vs bigger receivers and in some instances out of need.

We have never kept 7 corners, and I don't think we ever kept 6.
You seem to be taking the extreme possiblity and using it as an argument to refute the likely one.

FWIW, I think guys like Cunningham, Gonzalez, Ebner are bubble guys and Koppen, Brace and Pryor should make the team, but if hurt could be swapped out for a DB. I agree with almost all of your roster selections.

But the numbers are what matters. Take away any one of those and you need to add a player at their spot.
It seems the difference is that you see us keeping a 6th or 7th corner who will be inactive, and I am looking at the s/t players who will be active and contributing along with having depth at all positions.

Bottom line is that they are loaded and we have a upper-class problems

At most spots. I am still not thrilled at all with the DL.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You seem to think there are not 11 players on special teams.

Nope. Just focused on keeping an abundance of players that aren't being kept just because of STs. We essentially have that in Slater. If Pope proves to be better in man-to-man/slot coverage than Moore, then Pope is my choice. If Moore is better than Pope in coverage, I choose Moore as we already have strong STers.

We have never kept 7 corners, and I don't think we ever kept 6.
You seem to be taking the extreme possiblity and using it as an argument to refute the likely one.

I corrected myself- 7 players who can cover on the inside and outside. If Allen proves he still has it and Pope and Moore prove equally worthy then I'd rather have them on the roster than Cunningham.

But the numbers are what matters. Take away any one of those and you need to add a player at their spot.
It seems the difference is that you see us keeping a 6th or 7th corner who will be inactive, and I am looking at the s/t players who will be active and contributing along with having depth at all positions.

Not quite. Depth is the foundation of this team but just as important is having players who make an impact on game day. If I had my druthers, with their LB selections in the draft, Moore is on this team ahead of a guy like Cunningham.

At most spots. I am still not thrilled at all with the DL.

A big-body interior pass-rusher would have been nice....

 

[Ring 6]

Nope. Just focused on keeping an abundance of players that aren't being kept just because of STs. We essentially have that in Slater. If Pope proves to be better in man-to-man/slot coverage than Moore, then Pope is my choice. If Moore is better than Pope in coverage, I choose Moore as we already have strong STers.

Pope?
Here is the thing. The 5th corner, which seems to be what we are discussing, is going to be inactive.
Using that spot for an excellent special teams player gives us a guy who is active on game day and making plays to help the team win games.

I corrected myself- 7 players who can cover on the inside and outside. If Allen proves he still has it and Pope and Moore prove equally worthy then I'd rather have them on the roster than Cunningham.



Not quite. Depth is the foundation of this team but just as important is having players who make an impact on game day. If I had my druthers, with their LB selections in the draft, Moore is on this team ahead of a guy like Cunningham.

Again, you are favoring so many players at one spot that they would never see the field. Before the draft if we played a game, Cunningham would have been the starting OLB in the 34, along with Ninkovich. Given we need to be 2 deep, drafting 2 LBs (one who may take some time to play in the base 34) doesn't make Cunningham irrelevant, it makes him important depth.
Again, if you cut him, you need to keep someone else at his position, not an extra db who will never see the field until we have 2 injuries.

A big-body interior pass-rusher would have been nice....

We got that in Fanene, and while I'd really like to see the other sub DT spot next to him stregthened, I'm more worried about the 34DE/43DT spot in the base D.
Deaderick, Brace, Love, Prior may be NFL caliber guys, but I would prefer zero of them to need to be relied on as starters.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pope?
Here is the thing. The 5th corner, which seems to be what we are discussing, is going to be inactive.
Using that spot for an excellent special teams player gives us a guy who is active on game day and making plays to help the team win games.

I don't know why I said Pope- meant Cole. I just did the roster and while we are coming at it from different angles, have Cole on the roster makes sense.

Again, you are favoring so many players at one spot that they would never see the field. Before the draft if we played a game, Cunningham would have been the starting OLB in the 34, along with Ninkovich. Given we need to be 2 deep, drafting 2 LBs (one who may take some time to play in the base 34) doesn't make Cunningham irrelevant, it makes him important depth.
Again, if you cut him, you need to keep someone else at his position, not an extra db who will never see the field until we have 2 injuries.

We got that in Fanene, and while I'd really like to see the other sub DT spot next to him stregthened, I'm more worried about the 34DE/43DT spot in the base D.
Deaderick, Brace, Love, Prior may be NFL caliber guys, but I would prefer zero of them to need to be relied on as starters.

Comments welcome. I'm not settled on this but here is what I am thinking. Ebert is my binkie beating out Edelman and being PR/KR and having better potential as a WR.

The players along the OLB/DE/DT 3-4, 4-3 are interchagable to a point.

O-line is similar as I see McDonald as having more positional flexibility then Koppen.

QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (4) Spencer Larsen, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Matthew Slater, Jabar Gaffney, Jeremy Ebert, Deion Branch
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (1) Ryan Wendell
G (5) Logan Mankins, Nick McDonald, Dan Connolly, Robert Gallery, Brian Waters
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones
DT (5) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor
ILB(3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower
OLB(3) Rob Ninkovich, Markell Carter, Dane Fletcher
CB (6) Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Marquice Cole, Devin McCourty
SS (2) Josh Barrett, Steve Gregory
FS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken, Stephen Gostkowski

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

Ok. I did my selections

 

[Spergon Wynn]

My first of what I'm sure will be many:

QB (3) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
RB (4) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Spencer Larsen
WR (7) Brandon Lloyd, Wes Welker, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (2) Dan Connolly, Dan Koppen
G (3) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (5) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Jake Bequette, Trevor Scott, Chandler Jones
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Gerard Warren
ILB(5) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower, Dane Fletcher, Niko Koutouvides
OLB(2) Bobby Carpenter, Rob Ninkovich
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

I expect some more vets to be signed as cuts are made.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know why I said Pope- meant Cole. I just did the roster and while we are coming at it from different angles, have Cole on the roster makes sense.




Comments welcome. I'm not settled on this but here is what I am thinking. Ebert is my binkie beating out Edelman and being PR/KR and having better potential as a WR.

The players along the OLB/DE/DT 3-4, 4-3 are interchagable to a point.

O-line is similar as I see McDonald as having more positional flexibility then Koppen.

QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (4) Spencer Larsen, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Matthew Slater, Jabar Gaffney, Jeremy Ebert, Deion Branch
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (1) Ryan Wendell
G (5) Logan Mankins, Nick McDonald, Dan Connolly, Robert Gallery, Brian Waters
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones
DT (5) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor
ILB(3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower
OLB(3) Rob Ninkovich, Markell Carter, Dane Fletcher
CB (6) Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Marquice Cole, Devin McCourty
SS (2) Josh Barrett, Steve Gregory
FS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken, Stephen Gostkowski

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

Ok. I did my selections

Agree that if Ebert can return kicks well, its wise to replace 3 years agos developmental WR who never developed with this years developmental WR.

I don't think Koppen needs position flexibility, because Connolly has it.
Rather than keep a lesser player because he can also fill in at G, I like Koppen because he essentially does fill in at G by taking over C and moving Connolly to G.
Thats assuming Koppen isn't starting.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Read through people's rosters most of them are good.

A couple things suprised me Fiametta is getting a lot move love than Larsen. I believe Larson got a much bigger signing bouns than TF and is a McDaniel guy.

Tony Fiammetta: 1 year, $700K total, SB $60K
Spencer Larsen: 2 years, $1.75M total, SB $250K

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agree that if Ebert can return kicks well, its wise to replace 3 years agos developmental WR who never developed with this years developmental WR.

I don't think Koppen needs position flexibility, because Connolly has it.
Rather than keep a lesser player because he can also fill in at G, I like Koppen because he essentially does fill in at G by taking over C and moving Connolly to G.
Thats assuming Koppen isn't starting.

What you say makes sense certainly. Clearly BB sees value in Koppen but his contract details make me think that if Waters and Mankins come back by Week 1, Koppen won't make the roster as you have Connolly (in my opinion) being a better player than Koppen at C and in McDonald as you C/G swing player and guys like Gallery, Cannon, etc as your G/T guys if Seabass is a question mark.

Koppen's contract details make me think that there is minimal risk that not only can he be kept on the bench for reasonable dollars, but could also be cut IF everyone come back but also if Gallery Cannon play well in camp, but also if McDonald does as well.

Good problem to have...



Dan Koppen Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

 

[Spergon Wynn]

Update:

QB (3) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
RB (5) Stevan Ridley, Joseph Addai, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (2) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez
C (2) Dan Connolly, Dan Koppen
G (3) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (4) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Markus Zusevics
DE (2) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor
ILB(5) Jerod Mayo, Donta Hightower, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Bobby Carpenter
OLB(5) Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette, Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich, Markell Carter
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

*Defensive positions based on basic 3-4.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Bump as we get closer to training camp, Gonzalez/Ocho/M. Carter are gone, Ballard has joined us.

 

[1960Pats]

-I had Ochocinco make it over Branch because it's a **** move to cut someone after they restructure. Nobody would ever restructure unless it meant his job would be secure.
.[/QUOTE]

We don't know what was or wasn't said to him at the time, but there's no way that he earned a spot on this team. He was paid fairly well for what amounted to a handful of catches.

 

[patsfan13]

My pre training camp guess:

QB (2) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett
RB (5) Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Joseph Addai, Danny Woodhead, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Brandon Lloyd, Wes Welker, Jabar Gaffney, Britt Davis, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (2) Ryan Wendell, Dan Koppen
G (4) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Dan Connolly, Robert Gallery
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Chandler Jones, Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Jake Bequette
DT (3) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor
ILB(5) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower, Dane Fletcher, Tracy White
OLB(3) Rob Ninkovich, Trevor Scott, Jermaine Cunningham
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard
SS (3) Steve Gregory, Will Allen, James Ihedigbo
FS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Danny Aiken, Zoltan Mesko

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

I have A Carter being signed and placed on PUP. Mankins and Fanene ready to go. Hoyer traded during camp to team with QB injury, of course assuming Mallett is ready to be the backup.

For Fun Britt Davis becomes the Camp surprise and beats out Branch and Stallworth for the last WR slot.


PS: Forston, Ebner, Francis, Tarpinian, Bolden, Ebert, and 2 OL to camp Dante

Zusevics and Ballard to IR.