PATS PICKER 2012 - now live

[BradyFTW!]

I'm actually a little surprised that almost half of the rosters posted here have Ochocinco making the team.

 

[TyronePoole]

I'm actually a little surprised that almost half of the rosters posted here have Ochocinco making the team.

I still think he has more upside than the WRs after gaffney

 

[Ring 6]

QB (3) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
RB (4) Stevan Ridley, Danny Woodhead, Shane Vereen, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Deion Branch, Jabar Gaffney, Anthony Gonzalez, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (2) Ryan Wendell, Dan Koppen
G (4) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Dan Connolly, Robert Gallery
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren
DT (3) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor
ILB(3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher
OLB(5) Donta Hightower, Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Marquice Cole
SS (3) Patrick Chung, Josh Barrett, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Tavon Wilson, Steve Gregory
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Danny Aiken, Zoltan Mesko

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

Probably leaving off a special teams LB

 

[supafly]

Short random thoughts. Lot tougher than it looks.... I really prefer Connoly at Center....Tackle is a lot skimpier than I thought..... Hope one or two of the rookies work out...... Wish Matt would come back for one more..... WR is a log jam..... We are pretty stacked at all three LB postions as well as DE for the first time in a while..... I want more DT's in next years draft.

I had actually read an article or two (maybe it was Reiss' mailbag also) that stated that the coaches are projecting Gallery to be a tackle here, rather than a guard.

Obviously this surprised me, as I always assumed he was a pure interior guy.

We'll have to see if it's true or not, and how everything shakes out. If it is true, and Gallery projects to tackle (or he can play both), then the outside position shouldn't be as bad as it first appears.

Maybe that's what Belichick is thinking, due to the back injury w/ Vollmer, and the newbie position w/ Cannon.

I agree with many of your thoughts.

 

[Ring 6]

I had actually read an article or two (maybe it was Reiss' mailbag also) that stated that the coaches are projecting Gallery to be a tackle here, rather than a guard.

Obviously this surprised me, as I always assumed he was a pure interior guy.

We'll have to see if it's true or not, and how everything shakes out. If it is true, and Gallery projects to tackle (or he can play both), then the outside position shouldn't be as bad as it first appears.

Maybe that's what Belichick is thinking, due to the back injury w/ Vollmer, and the newbie position w/ Cannon.

I agree with many of your thoughts.

Of course Gallery came into the league as a stud LT, and played on the right side too. He eventually moved inside, but his size is more T than G.
Cannon was a T in college, he was only projected as a G in the NFL, and he played T last year.

 

[supafly]

QB (3) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
RB (4) Stevan Ridley, Danny Woodhead, Shane Vereen, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Deion Branch, Jabar Gaffney, Anthony Gonzalez, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (2) Ryan Wendell, Dan Koppen
G (4) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Dan Connolly, Robert Gallery
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene, Ron Brace, Gerard Warren
DT (3) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor
ILB(3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher
OLB(5) Donta Hightower, Chandler Jones, Rob Ninkovich, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Marquice Cole
SS (3) Patrick Chung, Josh Barrett, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Tavon Wilson, Steve Gregory
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Danny Aiken, Zoltan Mesko

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

Probably leaving off a special teams LB

Hmmm...

No Sterling Moore or Julian Edelman. Mankins not on the PUP? (That'd be a very good sign)

Bold man, bold

I think Moore makes it over Marquice Cole, due to his ability to play both secondary positions, his familiarity with the system already, and his earned opportunity, but that is obviously just my personal opinion.

I would think an argument could also be made for Edelman's versatility, even though I agree with your thoughts that "he's not exceptional at any of the positions." The fact that he plays all 3 phases, and seems to be a popular guy in the eyes of BB would steer me toward keeping him. Ebner should have no problem making the practice squad this year

I would agree with just about everything else myself, maybe with the exception that Mankins is able to start the season, and his spot initially given to Nick McDonald, or something along those lines.

EDIT: As you pointed out, an additional ILB argument could be made for either Tarpinian or White too, but I'm not sure where the extra spot would come from at the moment.

 

[supafly]

Of course Gallery came into the league as a stud LT, and played on the right side too. He eventually moved inside, but his size is more T than G.
Cannon was a T in college, he was only projected as a G in the NFL, and he played T last year.

Yeah, I was familiar with Cannon's situation, but I don't think I expected Gallery to be a tackle here.

I suppose I didn't go back far enough to check what his inital position was, so that's an assumption error on my part--although I would expect most of the fanbase to assume him as a guard here at the current moment.

Not sure if what I read will come true, and I couldn't find a link, but it certainly would seem to be a possibility and something to keep an eye on.

 

[Ring 6]

Hmmm...

No Sterling Moore or Julian Edelman. Mankins not on the PUP? (That'd be a very good sign)

I don't know how Moore makes the team unless there are injuries at corner. I'm cutting Allen too.
There are better WRs than Edelman also not making the team.

I think Moore makes it over Marquice Cole, due to his ability to play both secondary positions, his familiarity with the system already, and his earned opportunity, but that is obviously just my personal opinion.

I considered Moore at S, but I think BB hates him there.
Cole makes the team for special teams. Moore, IMO, is fighting Dennard, and I don't think it ends up close.

I would think an argument could also be made for Edelman's versatility, even though I agree with your thoughts that "he's not exceptional at any of the positions." The fact that he plays all 3 phases, and seems to be a popular guy in the eyes of BB would steer me toward keeping him. Ebner should have no problem making the practice squad this year

Ebner makes the team to play special teams, not to protect him.
Edelman can theoretically do a lot of things but other than returning punts he isn't really good at any of them. Who do you cut that does the job better than he does in order to keep him because he can do another job not very well?

I would agree with just about everything else myself, maybe with the exception that Mankins is able to start the season, and his spot initially given to Nick McDonald, or something along those lines.

Yeah, I figure its easy to slide Mankins over to PUP if he has to, but I really expect him to be ready, and pick another OL (my choice is Thomas or McDonald, depending on what the plan for Gallery is) in his spot.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, I was familiar with Cannon's situation, but I don't think I expected Gallery to be a tackle here.

I suppose I didn't go back far enough to check what his inital position was, so that's an assumption error on my part--although I would expect most of the fanbase to assume him as a guard here at the current moment.

Not sure if what I read will come true, and I couldn't find a link, but it certainly would seem to be a possibility and something to keep an eye on.

It makes sense when you consider he is 6'7

 

[supafly]

I suppose my first thought would be the replacement of Gonzalez with Edelman, but we'll have to see what happens later in the summer before we can finalize some of these positions entirely. I would agree that my thoughts a couple of weeks ago on Edelman pretty much being a lock have changed due to the addition of Gaffney + maybe the addition of the draft players too, narrowing down some numbers.

The initial thought when looking at the application is that the team seems to be in a decent place in the beginning of May.

 

[Ring 6]

I suppose my first thought would be the replacement of Gonzalez with Edelman, but we'll have to see what happens later in the summer before we can finalize some of these positions entirely. I would agree that my thoughts a couple of weeks ago on Edelman pretty much being a lock have changed due to the addition of Gaffney + maybe the addition of the draft players too, narrowing down some numbers.

The initial thought when looking at the application is that the team seems to be in a decent place in the beginning of May.

Gonzalez is a guess. Of course he may not stay healthy and if his past record tells us anything its a longshot he will, and we don't know if his skillls have eroded, but if his is healthy and has not decline significantly, I see him as a perfect Brady type of weapon.
Take him away, I actually think Ebert may fill that spot, because he could easily stick and be inactive every week with 4 solid WRs and Hernandez and the 2 other TEs around.
I think the 5th Wr spot is either for someone who can't be kept off the team becuase of camp, a s/ter like Edleman, or a young guy with potential. Its not impossible that we only carry 5 including Slater when you consider Hernandez is as much WR as TE.

 

[jmt57]

I'll split my guess into two sections.

--- First the locks and near-locks:
QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (3) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen
WR (3) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (1) Dan Connolly
G (1) Brian Waters
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon

DE (3) Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette, Jonathan Fanene
DT (1) Vince Wilfork
ILB (3) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower
OLB (1) Rob Ninkovich
CB (3) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington
SS (1) Patrick Chung
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson

ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken
ST (2) Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman

PUP (1) Logan Mankins

Total players: 36
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012



--- Now the final product:
QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (4) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Spencer Larsen
WR (4) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (2) Dan Koppen, Ryan Wendell
G (3) Dan Connolly, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon

DE (5) Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette, Jonathan Fanene, Trevor Scott, Brandon Deaderick
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Gerard Warren, Myron Pryor
ILB (4) Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower, Dane Fletcher
OLB (4) Rob Ninkovich, Bobby Carpenter, Jermaine Cunningham, Markell Carter
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Will Allen
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Josh Barrett
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson

ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken
ST (2) Matthew Slater, Julian Edelman

PUP (1) Logan Mankins

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012



- I'm on board with the previous comment about one of the CB becoming a S, which could make Barrett expendable and result in both Allen and Moore remaining on the roster. Right now I have no idea on who to pick between Allen and Moore.

- I was thinking White (and possibly Koutouvides) would make the roster with no problem, but now I'm not sure.

- The secondary is in worse shape than I had thought it was. CB looks pretty good but S depth is weak.

- I have no idea who is in and who is out between Wendell, McDonald and Thomas; how did all three manage to fit on the roster last year?

- WR is obviously the most interesting training camp roster battle, but there should be some other great position battles too.

- Tough call but left off the roster on offense: FB Kettani, Fiammetta; WR Stallworth, Gonzalez, Ochocinco, Ebert and Davis; OL Thomas, McDonald

- No shot on offense: Hartline, Hix, Kopa

- Tough call but left off the roster on defense: DL Brace; LB White, Koutouvides, Tarpinian; DB Moore, Brown, Ebner, Williams

- No shot on defense: DL Silvestro, Lavarias, Harrison; LB Rivera; DB Cole, Ventrone; also K Koepplin

- It's going to be very difficult for any of the undrafted free agents to make this roster; best chance for an UDFA or for someone currently not on the roster to make the team is if they are a DT or a S.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't know how Moore makes the team

Pure cover guys on the roster....

Arrington
Dennard
McCourty
Cole
Dowling
Allen

Are you saying that Moore doesn't beat out Cole AND Allen?

 

[supafly]

- It's going to be very difficult for any of the undrafted free agents to make this roster; best chance for an UDFA or for someone currently not on the roster to make the team is if they are a DT or a S.

I'd certainly agree with that statement.

Not the best year if you are an UDFA on the NEP 2012 team.

 

[supafly]

Pure cover guys on the roster....

Arrington
Dennard
McCourty
Cole
Dowling
Allen

Are you saying that Moore doesn't beat out Cole AND Allen?

Yes, he's predicting that a ST player like Cole will offer more to the team than Moore will.

There's obviously going to be some very different opinions, and in some ways that's a very good thing.

My personal opinion is that Moore offers versatility for both CB/S, but as Andy said, Belichick may not like him too much as a safety.

I think that Cole is the sure odd man out, and I actually have 6 CB's (including BOTH Moore and Allen), with only 3-4 safeties.

Sure to be some good competition, and some of 'our' guys won't make it.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, he's predicting that a ST player like Cole will offer more to the team than Moore will.

There's obviously going to be some very different opinions, and in some ways that's a very good thing.

My personal opinion is that Moore offers versatility for both CB/S, but as Andy said, Belichick may not like him too much as a safety.

I think that Cole is the sure odd man out, and I actually have 6 CB's (including BOTH Moore and Allen), with only 3-4 safeties.

Sure to be some good competition, and some of 'our' guys won't make it.

Cole doesnt have to be the best corner out of the group on the bubble, he has to be the best special teamer. Call him special teamer who happens to be a corner if he ever plays D if thats better.

 

[Sciz]

Its not impossible that we only carry 5 including Slater when you consider Hernandez is as much WR as TE.

I agree. I think it's absurd that people have 6 non-Slater WRs making it, and at least one person has 6 non-Slater, non-Edelman WRs making it. There is essentially no situation in which the Patriots are better off putting their #4/5 WR on the field as opposed to Hernandez or Gronkowski. So if they play their best players, there's no need for even a #4 WR on offense. And that's assuming that we never use a running back. Now, it's the NFL and injuries happen, so you want more than just 3. But there's still no need for a #5 WR who doesn't play on special teams unless you expect that two of your top 4 WRs are going to get hurt and miss a significant amount of time.

I've got 4 non-ST WRs making it in Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, and Branch, plus the ST WRs Edelman and Slater. In my scenario, Branch is inactive for any game in which the top 3 start the game healthy. I'm a lot closer to dropping Branch altogether than adding another WR.

As for the rest of the roster, I see them going heavy at RB knowing that all 6 can play on special teams and that Bolden is probably inactive pending health of the others. If Mankins starts on PUP (I'm not so sure yet; he's a tough mofo), then add Koppen and let Connolly fight Gallery at left guard. Only 3 tackles, but Gallery, Connolly, McDonald, and Mankins are all listed at an interior position here but have experience at tackle. I inadvertently ended up with only the two rookies as 4-3 RE candidates, but Ninkovich and Hightower can play there in a pinch. Will Allen was my last player in, and I figured the DB corps could use a veteran with the ability to play safety. Really, safety is another position where just about any CB could fill in if absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I go with the guys I think have the most upside at CB, because I'm not to worried who the best STers are, because I already know the top 4 will be Slater, Arrington, Ebner, and White, and I'm not too worried who the fifth best STer is.

Summary: I don't like my depth at [position1], but just about every player from [position2] can fill in.

QB (2) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer
RB (6) Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Bolden, Tony Fiammetta, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (3) Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Nick McDonald
G (3) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Jonathan Fanene, Brandon Deaderick, Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Gerard Warren
ILB(3) Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Tracy White
OLB(3) Jerod Mayo, Rob Ninkovich, Donta Hightower
CB (6) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard, Will Allen
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

 

[Ring 6]

Pure cover guys on the roster....

Arrington
Dennard
McCourty
Cole
Dowling
Allen

Are you saying that Moore doesn't beat out Cole AND Allen?

Did you read the roster I posited?
McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Denard, Cole are the corners.
Cole makes the team on special teams.
I have Allen being cut, but I would have him ahead of Moore too.
I'm not sure where all these positive feelings about Moore are coming from.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. I think it's absurd that people have 6 non-Slater WRs making it, and at least one person has 6 non-Slater, non-Edelman WRs making it. There is essentially no situation in which the Patriots are better off putting their #4/5 WR on the field as opposed to Hernandez or Gronkowski. So if they play their best players, there's no need for even a #4 WR on offense. And that's assuming that we never use a running back. Now, it's the NFL and injuries happen, so you want more than just 3. But there's still no need for a #5 WR who doesn't play on special teams unless you expect that two of your top 4 WRs are going to get hurt and miss a significant amount of time.

I've got 4 non-ST WRs making it in Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, and Branch, plus the ST WRs Edelman and Slater. In my scenario, Branch is inactive for any game in which the top 3 start the game healthy. I'm a lot closer to dropping Branch altogether than adding another WR.

As for the rest of the roster, I see them going heavy at RB knowing that all 6 can play on special teams and that Bolden is probably inactive pending health of the others. If Mankins starts on PUP (I'm not so sure yet; he's a tough mofo), then add Koppen and let Connolly fight Gallery at left guard. Only 3 tackles, but Gallery, Connolly, McDonald, and Mankins are all listed at an interior position here but have experience at tackle. I inadvertently ended up with only the two rookies as 4-3 RE candidates, but Ninkovich and Hightower can play there in a pinch. Will Allen was my last player in, and I figured the DB corps could use a veteran with the ability to play safety. Really, safety is another position where just about any CB could fill in if absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I go with the guys I think have the most upside at CB, because I'm not to worried who the best STers are, because I already know the top 4 will be Slater, Arrington, Ebner, and White, and I'm not too worried who the fifth best STer is.

Summary: I don't like my depth at [position1], but just about every player from [position2] can fill in.

QB (2) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer
RB (6) Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Bolden, Tony Fiammetta, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (3) Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Nick McDonald
G (3) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Jonathan Fanene, Brandon Deaderick, Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Gerard Warren
ILB(3) Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Tracy White
OLB(3) Jerod Mayo, Rob Ninkovich, Donta Hightower
CB (6) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard, Will Allen
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

Cutting Mallett? We would go into 2013 with no returning backup QBs.
I don't see any chance of keeping 2 FBs. 1 isn't going to get a ton of snaps. Can't play special teams from inactive list.
You are light on OL if you PUP Mankings.
Cutting Koppen? Interesting.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. I think it's absurd that people have 6 non-Slater WRs making it, and at least one person has 6 non-Slater, non-Edelman WRs making it. There is essentially no situation in which the Patriots are better off putting their #4/5 WR on the field as opposed to Hernandez or Gronkowski. So if they play their best players, there's no need for even a #4 WR on offense. And that's assuming that we never use a running back. Now, it's the NFL and injuries happen, so you want more than just 3. But there's still no need for a #5 WR who doesn't play on special teams unless you expect that two of your top 4 WRs are going to get hurt and miss a significant amount of time.

I've got 4 non-ST WRs making it in Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, and Branch, plus the ST WRs Edelman and Slater. In my scenario, Branch is inactive for any game in which the top 3 start the game healthy. I'm a lot closer to dropping Branch altogether than adding another WR.

As for the rest of the roster, I see them going heavy at RB knowing that all 6 can play on special teams and that Bolden is probably inactive pending health of the others. If Mankins starts on PUP (I'm not so sure yet; he's a tough mofo), then add Koppen and let Connolly fight Gallery at left guard. Only 3 tackles, but Gallery, Connolly, McDonald, and Mankins are all listed at an interior position here but have experience at tackle. I inadvertently ended up with only the two rookies as 4-3 RE candidates, but Ninkovich and Hightower can play there in a pinch. Will Allen was my last player in, and I figured the DB corps could use a veteran with the ability to play safety. Really, safety is another position where just about any CB could fill in if absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I go with the guys I think have the most upside at CB, because I'm not to worried who the best STers are, because I already know the top 4 will be Slater, Arrington, Ebner, and White, and I'm not too worried who the fifth best STer is.

Summary: I don't like my depth at [position1], but just about every player from [position2] can fill in.

QB (2) Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer
RB (6) Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Bolden, Tony Fiammetta, Spencer Larsen
WR (6) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Daniel Fells
C (3) Dan Connolly, Ryan Wendell, Nick McDonald
G (3) Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery
T (3) Nate Solder, Sebastian Vollmer, Marcus Cannon
DE (4) Jonathan Fanene, Brandon Deaderick, Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Myron Pryor, Gerard Warren
ILB(3) Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Tracy White
OLB(3) Jerod Mayo, Rob Ninkovich, Donta Hightower
CB (6) Devin McCourty, Ras-I Dowling, Kyle Arrington, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard, Will Allen
SS (2) Patrick Chung, Nate Ebner
FS (2) Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken

Come on, cut White and add Tarp. You know you want to