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Pats need a TE


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I like Cooley. I wonder if we could trade Maroney and Sanders for him, straight up.

Now that's the spirit Cousin Jack!!! You have seen the light! Give me an Amen Cousin....
DW Toys
 
Cooley is a glorified H Back, BB does not usually go these types. He likes the beefier types that can block and have speed.

Yeah, and look at the 2 TE's we got in the first round because of this, both ended up being blocking TE's and you don't take blocking TE's in the first round.

The H back type that we had, Dave Thomas left and was productive for the Saints last year.

I'm seeing things in this thread like, 'If we release Watson, he'll make the pro bowl next year'.

No chance. Ben Watson is flat out not that good. The 'upside' that he has is a myth. He is what he is.

We've got our blocker, lets go get our pass catcher
 
Yeah, and look at the 2 TE's we got in the first round because of this, both ended up being blocking TE's and you don't take blocking TE's in the first round.

The H back type that we had, Dave Thomas left and was productive for the Saints last year.

I'm seeing things in this thread like, 'If we release Watson, he'll make the pro bowl next year'.

No chance. Ben Watson is flat out not that good. The 'upside' that he has is a myth. He is what he is.

We've got our blocker, lets go get our pass catcher

I think the Pats expected more out of both Graham and Wastson but neither player materialized into that guy. I recall Belichick saying "We got value" when NE picked Graham in the 1st round of that draft.
 
Yeah, and look at the 2 TE's we got in the first round because of this, both ended up being blocking TE's and you don't take blocking TE's in the first round.

The H back type that we had, Dave Thomas left and was productive for the Saints last year.

I'm seeing things in this thread like, 'If we release Watson, he'll make the pro bowl next year'.

No chance. Ben Watson is flat out not that good. The 'upside' that he has is a myth. He is what he is.

We've got our blocker, lets go get our pass catcher

Check out the thread entitled "New England and the Tight End" :)
 
I think the Pats expected more out of both Graham and Wastson but neither player materialized into that guy. I recall Belichick saying "We got value" when NE picked Graham in the 1st round of that draft.

Yeah, they were drafting for athletic ability to create the prototype BB TE, a big target passcatcher who could block as well as he could catch. Graham realized that all the blocking was limiting his potential to cash in as a pass catcher. So he went somewhere he could cash in only to find the QB there wasn't targeting him and next thing he knew a BB clone was in charge and he's again expected to be primarily a blocker...

Watson had a ton of athleticism, as witnessed when he chased down Champ Bailey after Brady threw that pick because Ben missed his block... Watson is reportedly a very bright guy. Unfortunately he isn't football smart. He struggled out of the gate with reads and routes, and in the process tied himself up in knots to the point he couldn't be counted on to catch the damn ball while doing all that thinking. He's just not instinctive. That's why he flashes and fades. He might yet carve a better role out in a less cerebral, simpler system, but he isn't a great fit here.

Mike Martz said something last week that struck a cord with me because I think it's how BB has come to see it. A TE has to block first and foremost, otherwise you might just as well add another WR... That is what guys like Clark and Gonzo are, big and durable, slower footed, but surer handed slot WR. They succeed on offenses that pass block sufficiently based on quick reads and releases. Our OL is attempting to pass block for Brady to Moss and that takes too much time to develop for them to stand alone so the TE primarily serve as extra pass blockers. And our OL isn't big enough to run block sufficiently so the TE serves as run extra blockers. When blocking takes up 70% of your snaps it becomes your primary use. It's hard to build rapore in a timing offense with a guy who is only in the pattern on 30% of the snaps. It's hard to look at that guy after he screws up a route or fails to adjust or drops a pass when you have a guy like Welker out there who is running routes 95% of the time where he's supposed to be 99% of the time and finds the way to get open close to 100% of the time and catches 70% of the passes he's targeted on on average (sometimes he simply catches them all...).

Brady needs more/better intermediate receiving options...but he also needs better blocking including runblocking so he can balance the offense and counter the blitz. Adding a pass catching TE isn't going to achieve that because Welker was running those routes and it didn't achieve that...Upgrading the OL and WR positions might. Reconfiguring the offense might also work in the alternative...whereas adding another deep thread probably won't because Brady won't be any more able to routinely hit two of them deep than he now is with one... All that's going to net you is more cumulative QB hits.
 
Yeah, they were drafting for athletic ability to create the prototype BB TE, a big target passcatcher who could block as well as he could catch. Graham realized that all the blocking was limiting his potential to cash in as a pass catcher. So he went somewhere he could cash in only to find the QB there wasn't targeting him and next thing he knew a BB clone was in charge and he's again expected to be primarily a blocker...

Watson had a ton of athleticism, as witnessed when he chased down Champ Bailey after Brady threw that pick because Ben missed his block... Watson is reportedly a very bright guy. Unfortunately he isn't football smart. He struggled out of the gate with reads and routes, and in the process tied himself up in knots to the point he couldn't be counted on to catch the damn ball while doing all that thinking. He's just not instinctive. That's why he flashes and fades. He might yet carve a better role out in a less cerebral, simpler system, but he isn't a great fit here.

Mike Martz said something last week that struck a cord with me because I think it's how BB has come to see it. A TE has to block first and foremost, otherwise you might just as well add another WR... That is what guys like Clark and Gonzo are, big and durable, slower footed, but surer handed slot WR. They succeed on offenses that pass block sufficiently based on quick reads and releases. Our OL is attempting to pass block for Brady to Moss and that takes too much time to develop for them to stand alone so the TE primarily serve as extra pass blockers. And our OL isn't big enough to run block sufficiently so the TE serves as run extra blockers. When blocking takes up 70% of your snaps it becomes your primary use. It's hard to build rapore in a timing offense with a guy who is only in the pattern on 30% of the snaps. It's hard to look at that guy after he screws up a route or fails to adjust or drops a pass when you have a guy like Welker out there who is running routes 95% of the time where he's supposed to be 99% of the time and finds the way to get open close to 100% of the time and catches 70% of the passes he's targeted on on average (sometimes he simply catches them all...).

Brady needs more/better intermediate receiving options...but he also needs better blocking including runblocking so he can balance the offense and counter the blitz. Adding a pass catching TE isn't going to achieve that because Welker was running those routes and it didn't achieve that...Upgrading the OL and WR positions might. Reconfiguring the offense might also work in the alternative...whereas adding another deep thread probably won't because Brady won't be any more able to routinely hit two of them deep than he now is with one... All that's going to net you is more cumulative QB hits.

Good post.

The only thing I disagree with is that without Welker, we really dont know if Edelman will be able to produce the same numbers and I think NE shouldnt go that route again where 1 guy is basically the passing offense.

Once Welker was lost it was over.
 
I believe one of the main reasons we don't use the TE in a passing game more is because for the past 3 years Wes Welker has caught those types of passes usually set for TEs and since Wes has been so dominating in that area the team feels no need for a TE other than to block.

HOWEVER with the likelyhood of Welker not playing for a good portion of next season the TE position and as part of the receiving duty will become more needed - Thats why this team will no doubt draft a new TE in the mid rounds and you can say goodbye and a roster cut to the failure which is Mr Watson

I would expect the Bengals to be a huge participant in the Ben Watson sweepstakes...the Bengals are in desperate need of one.
 
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Brady needs more/better intermediate receiving options...but he also needs better blocking including runblocking so he can balance the offense and counter the blitz. Adding a pass catching TE isn't going to achieve that because Welker was running those routes and it didn't achieve that...Upgrading the OL and WR positions might. Reconfiguring the offense might also work in the alternative...whereas adding another deep thread probably won't because Brady won't be any more able to routinely hit two of them deep than he now is with one... All that's going to net you is more cumulative QB hits.

Bingo.

There is one advantage, though, that a pass-catching TE - or even a blocking TE with decent hands - might have over a Slot WR like WW, and that is as a big target, esp. in the RZ, and most esp. in GTG situations.

BTW, was it Watson, or Ashworth, who missed his block that forced Brady to scramble? Whoever it was, a truck could've driven through the hole created by that F-up.
 
Watson is reportedly a very bright guy. Unfortunately he isn't football smart. He struggled out of the gate with reads and routes, and in the process tied himself up in knots to the point he couldn't be counted on to catch the damn ball while doing all that thinking. He's just not instinctive. That's why he flashes and fades. He might yet carve a better role out in a less cerebral, simpler system, but he isn't a great fit here.

The lack of production from Watson is the biggest head scratcher of them all when it comes to Patriots players. With all the analysis about Watson and TEs in our system...I fear you probably nailed. But Watson is still a potential weapon in the passing game and has improved his blocking. He might remain if he takes a hometown discount (I think he might). His physical talent has been wasted here IMO and I hope the Pats don't continue to pretty much abandon the TE position as a viable receiving option.
 
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