Pats draft QB Jimmy Garropolo from Eastern Illinois in the 2nd round

[supafly]

Amazing you even asked. Wait for the season to start and let's see how long it takes for a wr to catch a 45 yrd pass. I suppose anybody that wears a patriot uniform is great. As far as White and Bryant let's just wait for the season to start.

I wasn't sure who was actually drafted first but I was thinking along the lines of Bryant where Stork was drafted and Stork where white got drafted. But I suppose white was upgraded to blue chip status as soon as we selected him. And the wonder twins and Lafell will suddenly become deep threats this yr just because we want them to.

I think we'd all like to see a better downfield threat. Hopefully, Dobson can fill that role.

In the meantime, I also wonder if that "take the top off of a defense" player may not be somewhat wasted here, due to the quicker, timing pass system that we employ. The quicker timing passes allow us to see higher percentage of passes completed, while also possibly masking OL weaknesses and even prolonging Brady's career in the meantime.

I think Belichick wants a guy to have that kind of downfield capability as well, but part of me wonders if he wants him to open up the underneath routes for other players vs. expecting a lot of bigger, downfield plays. If Dobson doesn't do that job on some level this season, we'll definitely be exploring another player again in the offseason/draft next year. Perhaps he didn't see as much need as some of us did for this year?

 

[Gymrat]

You hit the nail on the head. Exactly what I meant. A go to timing wr that also carries enough vertical speed to make the defense respect and fear him going deep.That in turn opens up things intermediate for himself even more so and the slot wr underneath. Slots r #3 options. Ideally the #1 and #2 wr's r both very good intermediate with enough vertical speed to keep the defense honest and ideally they want one of them guys to have very good to great speed. This keeps the defense from squatting on everything intermediate and underneath. Sometimes a #2wr will be a burner with limited route running and intermediate snatch and go ability. But the respect of his deep speed makes intermediate routes easier for him. Torrey Smith is a prime example of this kind of wr. Recently there has been a trend of slot wr's who can get vertical from the slot while being more of an intermediate threat like Randall Cobb. The wonder twins edelman/amendola are good underneath timing wr's but they are terribly limited intermediate and vertical making them very predictable. They lack speed,size and physicality to get any real depth for intermediate routes much less vertical. If we are forced to have them on the field simultaneously a good defense will shut them and our offense down in January.

If anybody recalls 2010 the jets beat us in the regular season then we blew them out on Monday night I believe it was. I was the only one who thought we were going to have a tough time in that playoff game they beat us in. Many co workers and friends were very ruffled at me because we recently waxed their butts. However i realized we used lots of smoke and mirrors in that game. Bubble screens,trick plays and plays precisely designed to create running room after short throws. I said we used up our tricks in that game. Our wr's didn't beat their defense straight up. I felt that garbage wasn't going to work again and it didn't. Branch and welker couldn't do anything against bigger faster more athletic dB's. Him being shut down in big games was one reason they wanted to move on from Welker. Which I agreed with as long as we truly upgraded over him. Welker was great at what he did but was limited like the wonder twins. When they signed amendola to that contract I couldn't believe it. Its like welker was good at what he did but was limited,did they think ANY limited slot can be a #1 n get it done in January with no true #1 to open things up. Its just going to be the same result every year. DBs having a field day squatting on our wrs In January. Truth is rams wanted to upgrade over amendola as panthers did letting Lafell walk.

Does anybody see us keeping up if the broncos start scoring. I think they are better this yr. Sanders signing was huge. That dude is having an Antonio Brown breakout IMHO. Yet we offered him 2mil and Amendola 30 or 35. I really hope we explore some wr trade options by the trade cutoff. Not many potential wr's out there with talent and being considered for trade. Johnson is more possible than many think if they fall from contention. He is 33 and cap hit or not the by time they get a qb, Johnson could be near decline. They are hooked for the cash regardless. They may as well get a qb and #2 draft pick to help the rebuilding. Then there is Maclin should Matthews standout early. Maclin is under 1yr deal. If Maclin performs very well they won't trade him during a super bowl push. Then there's Mike Wallace. Could thrive with Brady in our system that could develop his timing and intermediate game. But a division rival could hurt that. Fitzgerald is possible should nthe cards fall from contention. However he may be in decline. Homework must be done there before that trade.

Now were down to underperforming talents. Brian Quick comes to mind first. Nearly 6'4 with speed,fluidity and quick in his routes. Bradford is running out of excuses. To much talent for him to struggle. Its likely Bradford could have been holding him back. The con's are that great wr's still seem to get it done with bad qbs. He was raw however and could be ready for a breakout. I heard teams drooled over him in draft private workouts. He could cost a #2 but is boom or bust. Britt would have been a cheap low cost flyer option but injuries may have eroded skills. If he shows promise I doubt the rams part with him even in losing season. Then there is Justin Blackmon. Great intermediate catch and go with deep speed. Just what Brady ordered except well you know, his suspension. However if could get him for a #4 draft pick at most. Bill could write a letter about Blackmons hard work in practice and explain how he just needed a structured environment. How football is key to off the field performance and success. Just maybe bill can get his suspension down to 8\10 games since it was Mary Jane and legal in some states anyways. He is a tremendous talent who does work very very hard in practice. We could win a shootout in Denver in January and with his age/talent/injury free a very good option with no question marks like age talent or injuries like Johnson,maclin,Quick present. Problem is getting him reinstated for the playoffs which a change of team and bill could maybe pull off.

We likely make the playoffs again but this offense likely sputters again. There's nothing that gives us full confidence that our offense does much if any better than the last 2 yrs. Just hope like last yr. BTW does ANYBODY Have ANY other idea's of a wr possibly available by trade. Be honest if we acquired a legit WR, wouldn't everybody feel so much better and confident about Denver in January and making/winning thesuperbowl.Because when the offense struggles come January,can't get any wr help then.

 

[Nunchucks]

Football is more than height, weight, and 40 time.

 

[Big-T]

Football is more than height, weight, and 40 time.

The late Al Davis disagrees

 

[Kontradiction]

The late Al Davis disagrees

Add in bench reps and 3-cone times, and I'm sure Brady6 would too.

 

[Gymrat]

Football is more than height, weight, and 40 time.

Of course people will give this a thumbs up when our team is lacking talent at wr and they are holding onto that lottery ticket hope. Yeah truth be told sometimes a 6'4 wr who runs a 4.4 has no talent or feel for the football/game. But almost all wr threats who strike fear in defenses have a certain amount of size speed strength and athleticism. Some like a young ocho was 6' with great speed and athleticism. Others are 6'2 and above with power athleticism and good quickness for a 220 lb wr. There are no 5'9 wr's slow and lacking athleticism that's striking fear in any defense. This is getting ridiculous. Just because a couple big fast wr's are busts all the hopefuls try to convince themselves short slow weak pedestrian wr's are the way to go. But the truth is almost all the feared elite wr's have a certain combination of size, speed,power and athleticism. How many 5'9 wr's that run a 4.7 40 with 29" arms are defenses terribly worried about.

We said it b4 the wonder twins have a role at #3 slot wr position. Anything more expected and the offense WILL sputter at some points including the playoffs. Amendola wasn't wanted back by the rams. They wanted to move on and upgrade. When the other wonder twin edelman was a fa he received very little interest. Teams knew he was terribly limited and his catches weren't a result of beating a defense with skills and teams wanted no part of him. Lafell was a castoff as well. He is limited and they decided to rebuild the position even if it takes a couple yes.

Its one thing for a limited wr that nobody wants to have a role on your team but the whole wr corps. I hope I'm wrong but the running game although still productive isn't catching anybody off guard this yr and bailing out the passing game. Defenses can sit on short routes and the running game and the offense as a whole struggles early while defenses do us like Denver. That defense was using lots of backups and squatted on our wrs and running backs. We will face many defenses tougherbthan that including The broncos this yr. You can't put it on Tom,how many qbs including Rodgers or manning could remotely function with Edelman as its most productive wr.

 

[supafly]

Its one thing for a limited wr that nobody wants to have a role on your team but the whole wr corps. I hope I'm wrong but the running game although still productive isn't catching anybody off guard this yr and bailing out the passing game. Defenses can sit on short routes and the running game and the offense as a whole struggles early while defenses do us like Denver. That defense was using lots of backups and squatted on our wrs and running backs. We will face many defenses tougherbthan that including The broncos this yr. You can't put it on Tom,how many qbs including Rodgers or manning could remotely function with Edelman as its most productive wr.

I don't think it's been anything of a secret as to what N.England has been doing for quite some time now. It's just about Brady, Belichick, and McDaniels being able to help to draw up plays and execute in a more efficient way. In other words, I don't think we need to worry about "catching anybody off guard."

I'm not criticizing you for being slightly apprehensive/frustrated by the WR corps, because that's your right. I do think that it will end up being better than you anticipate though. There hasn't been a Super Bowl winning "big name" elite wide receiver for quite some time now, and Browns G.M. Ray Farmer pointed that out today.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why not do better than the worst? Maybe BB could give TFB some more weapons or some extra protection?

Yes. Give Brady more weapons than Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Thompkins, Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Gronkowski, and Hoomanawanui. I mean, we can just put them all on the field at once, right? Oh wait.. We can't. We can only put 5 of them on the field. Much of the issue in the playoffs was Wendell and Connolly with Dobson, Boyce, and Gronkowski on IR. You can't have ALL-PROs for every back-up.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yes. Give Brady more weapons than Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Thompkins, Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Gronkowski, and Hoomanawanui. I mean, we can just put them all on the field at once, right? Oh wait.. We can't. We can only put 5 of them on the field. Much of the issue in the playoffs was Wendell and Connolly with Dobson, Boyce, and Gronkowski on IR. You can't have ALL-PROs for every back-up.

I said "weapons", not bodies, there's a difference.

 

[Gymrat]

Yes. Give Brady more weapons than Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Thompkins, Ridley, Vereen, Bolden, Gronkowski, and Hoomanawanui. I mean, we can just put them all on the field at once, right? Oh wait.. We can't. We can only put 5 of them on the field. Much of the issue in the playoffs was Wendell and Connolly with Dobson, Boyce, and Gronkowski on IR. You can't have ALL-PROs for every back-up.

Most of those names are not starter caliber and never will be. That's nothing more than quantity. You can have 30 wr's but what good is it if they are all sub par.

NATURALLY if we got a legit playmaking wr one of those guys will be cut. They are body's to fill a roster,not exactly weapons. A weapon by definition is something that is feared.

 

[AzorianPats]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...qb-succession?campaign=Facebook_writers_breer

Great article by Burt Breer!

 

[Nunchucks]

The scrap heap is littered with 2nd round receivers that amounted to nothing

 

[DaBruinz]

Off a catastrophic knee injury, after suffering an infection in his arm, after breaking his arm, after hurting his ankle, after being injured throughout college.

Gronk wasn't injured throughout college. He had the back injury..

Two of the rookies showed nothing last year. The other is in a walking boot. Lafell is a JAG. Hope you like slow slot WRs.

Thompkins showed nothing last year?
LaFell is more than a jag..
Amendola and Edelman may not be Adrian Peterson fast, but they aren't Wes Welker slow either..

Once again a player coming off a serious injury after having a college career that included whispers of serious back problems. We must like players with that issue. Yes we can move Cannon to RG - who cares?[/quote}

Considering how bad the blocking was from the the OC and RG, you should care. Cannon SHOULD be an improvement over Connolly.

No problems here, other than we most likely only have Revis for one season. You would think you'd go all out in a "deep" draft since that is the case. We took a pass for three rounds.

Our corners were better. Our offense was, and is, not.

So, Boyce, Thompkins and Dobson can't improve? Amendola can't improve? Ridley and Vereen can't improve? Hoomanawanui and Williams can't improve? Josh Kline (who was almost as good as Mankins) can't improve? Chris Barker can't improve?

I never realized that players are only their absolute best as rookies and they go down hill from there. Because that is exactly what you are saying..

 

[patfanken]

I just read this last page.....and NOW I'm angry. How long can this WR madness go on. How much evidence does a fan base need that PROVES without a shadow of doubt that the relationship between team success and having an elite level WR's DOESN'T EXIST!!!! In fact it would seem that the opposite seems to be the truth. Try this exercise. Jot down the names of the top so called #1 WRs and then check and see where they were playing in January. I think you will find that only TWO of them were playing ball then (AJ Green and DThomas)

Yet still the "WR whiners" come to this board and continually cry about a "lack of a true deep threat", the "lack of a true #1 WR", DESPITE the fact they've witnessed 12 years of unparallelled success WITHOUT ever having the thing they so fatuously dream about (except for the 2 Randy Moss years when he was well passed his prime)

Why do we keep demanding this mythical "deep threat" when last year, under the worst of circumstances we managed to have open receivers deep at least a couple of times EVERY game. AMAZING that the whiners forget this small fact.

Would I rather to have Brady throwing to Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones, instead of JE and ADobson? Sure, I'm not crazy and I DO play fantasy football. But does it make that much of a difference to whether a team wins or loses. Clearly the facts show, not as much as one might think.

Are our WR's "great" or "scary"? Clearly no. But the question should be, "are they good enough" to allow the Pats to be a top 10 scoring offense. Well last season, with all the inexperience, injuries, and other problems we had with our receivers, there were only 2 teams in the league who scored more points than our woebegotten, WR deprived Patriots. How could that have happened. It must be a miracle. The same miracle that's been happening in NE for the last several years.

Even the "whiners" will have to admit that between the 2nd year development of the rookies, the health of DA and Gronk, and the addition of LaFell that our receiver group should be better. Maybe THIS year they might just get to the #2 spot.

What do we have to do to break this WR addiction. Why to do so many fans seem to erroneously think that they are all that matters..... when they clearly DON'T. Its beginning to FRUSTRATE me. I need help!

 

[Gymrat]

I don't think it's been anything of a secret as to what N.England has been doing for quite some time now. It's just about Brady, Belichick, and McDaniels being able to help to draw up plays and execute in a more efficient way. In other words, I don't think we need to worry about "catching anybody off guard."



I'm not criticizing you for being slightly apprehensive/frustrated by the WR corps, because that's your right. I do think that it will end up being better than you anticipate though. There hasn't been a Super Bowl winning "big name" elite wide receiver for quite some time now, and Browns G.M. Ray Farmer pointed that out today.

That is a point superfly and you are intelligent enough to see the big pic. Farmer said that to be optimistic but Noway he parts with Gordon for anything less than a #1 even if he doesn't play in 2014. Cleveland has said he is a vital part of Cleveland's future. To much talent there. A top 5 wr for next decade. I'm not saying a prime a Johnson or Fitzgerald just somebody with some combination of size speed athleticism and physicality to win on 3rd and 10 when the defense reads the play and its up to the wr to still win. Jeremy Maclin(as long as he hasn't lost anything to injuries),Andre Johnson at 33, or some young talent ready to breakout like MAYBE Quick(homework to b done determine if overrated),Sanders or Justin Black on(perhaps new team/structured disciplined environment could sway goodell to let him back on the field this year sometime) or one of the talented wr's in the draft like Lee or Latimer or even Marty Bryant.

Just cuz Calvin hasn't carried a bad team and won a championship doesn't mean they aren't very important and teams should find the shortest slowest wr available. Brady hasn't won in a decade now but doesn't mean a franchise qb isnt important. I don't think anybody is asking for Calvin Johnson but its apparent we need a legit feared playmaking wr and lacking one has held us back the last 3 seasons. Every team to make or win the Superbowl last Decade or more has had a good feared playmaker except for us in 2011. Its so frustrating to everybody cuz it seems bill can't possibly find shorter slower wr's.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Are our WR's "great" or "scary"? Clearly no. But the question should be, "are they good enough" to allow the Pats to be a top 10 scoring offense. Well last season, with all the inexperience, injuries, and other problems we had with our receivers, there were only 2 teams in the league who scored more points than our woebegotten, WR deprived Patriots. How could that have happened. It must be a miracle. The same miracle that's been happening in NE for the last several years.

For years we used to make fun of Colts fans who went on about their offense only to see it fall apart in the playoffs, the Pats offense has consistency stalled in the playoffs. Go on about regular season success all you want but it's the Lombardi that counts.

 

[Snake Eyes]

The scrap heap is littered with 2nd round receivers that amounted to nothing

And it's also littered with 1st round QBs who amounted to nothing, does this mean it's a bad idea to draft one in that round?

 

[Gymrat]

I just read this last page.....and NOW I'm angry. How long can this WR madness go on. How much evidence does a fan base need that PROVES without a shadow of doubt that the relationship between team success and having an elite level WR's DOESN'T EXIST!!!! In fact it would seem that the opposite seems to be the truth. Try this exercise. Jot down the names of the top so called #1 WRs and then check and see where they were playing in January. I think you will find that only TWO of them were playing ball then (AJ Green and DThomas)

Yet still the "WR whiners" come to this board and continually cry about a "lack of a true deep threat", the "lack of a true #1 WR", DESPITE the fact they've witnessed 12 years of unparallelled success WITHOUT ever having the thing they so fatuously dream about (except for the 2 Randy Moss years when he was well passed his prime)

Why do we keep demanding this mythical "deep threat" when last year, under the worst of circumstances we managed to have open receivers deep at least a couple of times EVERY game. AMAZING that the whiners forget this small fact.

Would I rather to have Brady throwing to Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones, instead of JE and ADobson? Sure, I'm not crazy and I DO play fantasy football. But does it make that much of a difference to whether a team wins or loses. Clearly the facts show, not as much as one might think.

Are our WR's "great" or "scary"? Clearly no. But the question should be, "are they good enough" to allow the Pats to be a top 10 scoring offense. Well last season, with all the inexperience, injuries, and other problems we had with our receivers, there were only 2 teams in the league who scored more points than our woebegotten, WR deprived Patriots. How could that have happened. It must be a miracle. The same miracle that's been happening in NE for the last several years.

Even the "whiners" will have to admit that between the 2nd year development of the rookies, the health of DA and Gronk, and the addition of LaFell that our receiver group should be better. Maybe THIS year they might just get to the #2 spot.

What do we have to do to break this WR addiction. Why to do so many fans seem to erroneously think that they are all that matters..... when they clearly DON'T. Its beginning to FRUSTRATE me. I need help!

MAYBE is the key word EVERY YR. Just cuz an end elite wr can't carry a bad team to a championship that means a team is better off without them. Brady hasn't carried us to a championship so that means a franchise qb isn't very important. The opposite is true huh? Your logic won't go very far. I don't think teams around the NFL are going to be dumping their wr's and finding short slow wr's cuz the patriots have won without decent. Wr's. I doubt edelman will ever be trendier than a 200lb woman. We are winning because we have best qb ever. Even former patriots like bruschi,vrabel and Mcginest are frustrated how Brady is expected to carry our offense featuring the wonder twins as the #1 #2 wr's.

Furthermore NOBODY is talking bout just a deep threat. Instead we are talking a wr who can win intermediate on a consistent basis with ability to make defenses respect him getting deep with a combination of size speed athleticism to highpoint the ball. It opens things up for himself,the pass catching rbs and the te's not to mention the short slow limited slot wr who should be nothing more than a #3wr.Marquise Lee isnt a 4.2 40 guy or 6'4 but is 6' and he has very good functional speed to win intermediate routes with athleticism to highpoint the ball if he doesn't separate deep.Like 3rd and 15 when the defense reads the play yet the wr can still win. Just something lplayoffs. The wonder twins totally lack that ability making them terribly limited pass catchers thus easy to defend.Maybe Calvin hasn't won a championship but when was the last team to win it all not had a legit talented playmaker. Even the seahawks and sf had better wr's than us. They have dominating defenses yet STILL SEE THE NEED TO GET BETTER AT WR. The colts have t.y. Hilton who is far superior to any of our wr's yet they wanted to upgrade. BECAUSE THEY KNOW ITS IMPORTANT TO SCORING POINTS. Even the top defenses want to upgrade at wr. Has anybody noticed the offense struggles more and more every yr in the playoffs and we get our buts kicked at some point. It has become a recurring theme. Who is happy making the playoffs every year then have a buttkicking waiting.

To me everything other than winning the Superbowl sucks and is utter failure. With Tom Brady at qb a championship should be expected every year. I would rather not make the playoffs and fill the holes/weaknesses and win the championship next year than get our but kicked 2 consecutive seasons in the playoffs. Maybe the team needs to take a step back b4 going forward. Maybe getting swept by The Bills will show our Bill upgrades are needed. I imagine as long as he wins the division thsts good enough and he sees no need to upgrade to NFL caliber wr's.

Does anybody recall the dolphins made postseason every yr I believe from 1996 to 2003 yet in 2001 or 2002 didn't sellout a home playoff game cuz fans were bored with making playoffs and losing. To prevent a blackout many big companies bought up tickets. I watched maybe 10 plays of the Superbowl,my team wasn't there and I didn't care who won it. If the offense struggles out of gate maybe bill trades for a wr.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Football is more than height, weight, and 40 time.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that build and athletic ability are irrelevant either.

 

[Gymrat]

For years we used to make fun of Colts fans who went on about their offense only to see it fall apart in the playoffs, the Pats offense has consistency stalled in the playoffs. Go on about regular season success all you want but it's the Lombardi that counts.

Snake Eyes takes it in, He Shoots, He Scores!

For years we used to make fun of Colts fans who went on about their offense only to see it fall apart in the playoffs, the Pats offense has consistency stalled in the playoffs. Go on about regular season success all you want but it's the Lombardi that counts.