Pats - Colts Divisional Round Discussion Thread

[coolguy]

They've upgraded over the venerable Gronk, Dobson (assuming he can't go), Vollmer, Spikes and Mayo, have they? Amendola's injury is now magically 100% healed, too?

The only injuries where age of replacements is even remotely a factor are on the defensive line, to Wilfork and Kelly, and I don't think there's a human being on the planet who's high enough to claim the replacements there are better than the starters.

I thought we were talking about defense?

"and I don't think there's a human being on the planet who's high enough to claim the replacements there are better than the starters"
i find this comment funny because people were saying wilfork "lost a step" before his injury.

 

[SVN]

If every guy was healthy on D and they had Gronk, they'd be a different team. He may be overselling things, but the rational among us realize that this is an underpowered team, and that 12-4 is incredibly generous given all they had to fight through over the course of the season.

His globe column is different. He thinks colts have no chance. Then goes on the local indy radio shows does this.While your pts are valid, I dont think he is being objective with his 12-4 analysis.

 

[Deus Irae]

I thought we were talking about defense?

Spikes, Mayo..... defensive players. Also, I pointed to an underpowered team, not just to the defense.

"and I don't think there's a human being on the planet who's high enough to claim the replacements there are better than the starters"
i find this comment funny because people were saying wilfork "lost a step" before his injury.

Even if it were true that Wilfork had lost a step, that wouldn't change what I posted.

 

[Deus Irae]

His globe column is different. He thinks colts have no chance. Then goes on the local indy radio shows does this.While your pts are valid, I dont think he is being objective with his 12-4 analysis.

Without listening to his comments, I can't comment on any sarcasm he might/might not have been using. I can say that this (playing down one team (Patriots) when another is being overhyped (Colts) on the air) is the sort of thing he'd do and has done, though.


Having read the article, though, a call for the Colts to play their best would make sense, though, since he thinks that the Patriots will beat them because the Colts will blow it.

 

[SVN]

i can guarantee he would be singing a different tune if every guy was healthy on D and we had gronk ect. What a turd

Of course not. The prevailing theme right now on the globe -both gasper and CHB is that pats have to blow out the colts or win easily else its a choke job. While agree that the pats have to win, the globe writers like these consistently keep saying every yr if they dont win its horrible. The pats team is treated like a 9-11 led manning playoff team everytime because its not a good story when they win.
Sad part is people like shaughnessy go on the national shows and people think he represents the fan base here. A quick search on twitter will show u how much people hate the pats and fans even more because of articles like this.

 

[mgcolby]

I hope you're right, but he hasn't exactly looked great in beating his coverage too much this year, has he?

That's been one of the biggest knocks on him, outside from running terribly rounded and "un-sharp" routes, which is huge in this kind of system and chemistry with Brady as the timing is thrown off.

If he just replicated 1/2 of what Brandon Llyod did last season, we'd likely be fine. Unfortunately, that may be too much to ask from him. Let's hope he somehow earns Brady's trust this week in practice and is able to beat his man on the field, but I'm not holding my breath that it'll happen on the level that we'd need it to. Once again it looks like the lack of WR talent and diversity could hurt us at the biggest and most important time of the season. Of course Gronkowski being injured in the past 3 postseasons hasn't helped that cause any either...

Do you truly think its a trust issue vs the injuries? Brady did trust him enough to go to him on the final play of the Saints game.

 

[supafly]

Do you truly think its a trust issue vs the injuries? Brady did trust him enough to go to him on the final play of the Saints game.

That's a good question, mgcolby.

I think as far as trust goes, there have been plenty of times where Brady
simply didn't have anyone else to try and go to, and considering that Collie was a major contributor on two 4th down attempts there, I'm guessing that it may even have been a bit of blind luck. Of course that's a bit on the pessimistic side, and it could honestly have just been a good look right off the back just as well.

I think one concern is that he lost some of that chemistry that he was building with Brady, as Thompkins only had 11 catches since mid-October. That chemistry never seemed to get going again, aside from the DEN game when he caught 6 balls.

Hopefully they can attempt to get him open right off the bat, much in the same way that Llyod received some quick looks right off of the LOS many times. Maybe that would help to get him in a groove of sorts?

I suppose you never know who may snag a key downfield throw at any given time though, so let's hope they had a great week of practice.

 

[supafly]

or maybe this is an improved team


I can't be the only one that realized by losing the older veteran players the patriots have gotten faster and more youthful. This young defense had bail out a struggling offense most of the season.

That's not a knock on the injured players.

I think you could be right that they are improved in certain areas, possibly including playing together as a team, overcoming adversity, sheer luck at times, and being mentally tougher than in the past; but they are nowhere near as talented as any of the past few years' teams in my opinion, not on either side of the ball.

As far as your comments about the defense bailing out the offense, I don't really agree with you there...at all, to be honest. We had the 3rd highest scoring offense in the NFL this year, and averaged in the high 20's in a per game average.

Our defense has looked better in the past couple/few games, starting with MIA, BAL, and BUF, but there was a stretch where they weren't looking too good at all there for awhile. We've had severe issues with the 3rd down defense at times, along with the poor run area. Worse off, they have struggled against lower level competition like NYJ, HOU, CLE, BUF, etc.

The defense has improved lately, no doubt about that, although the loss of Spikes will now make that challenge even more difficult. We need a stretch of games where we see solid play on both sides of the ball in order to have any kind of realistic shot in my opinion.

 

[mgcolby]

That's a good question, mgcolby.

I think as far as trust goes, there have been plenty of times where Brady
simply didn't have anyone else to try and go to, and considering that Collie was a major contributor on two 4th down attempts there, I'm guessing that it may even have been a bit of blind luck. Of course that's a bit on the pessimistic side, and it could honestly have just been a good look right off the back just as well.

I think one concern is that he lost some of that chemistry that he was building with Brady, as Thompkins only had 11 catches since mid-October. That chemistry never seemed to get going again, aside from the DEN game when he caught 6 balls.

Hopefully they can attempt to get him open right off the bat, much in the same way that Llyod received some quick looks right off of the LOS many times. Maybe that would help to get him in a groove of sorts?

I suppose you never know who may snag a key downfield throw at any given time though, so let's hope they had a great week of practice.

Good points...I am changing gears here a bit, mostly because I think all your points are valid...but to be honest I don't think he has to catch a ball to open the defense, he just has to get behind them once and have Brady lob him one. If that happens that will be bad news for their D.

They will have to pick their poison this week. Their Defense is subpar against the run. So I fully expect them to sell out on the run, getting gashed on the ground is something they can't recover from, IMO.

Here are my thoughts on the situation:

Pagano will most likely focus on the run knowing that if he can't stop the run then he will get the double whammy with the play action. Take away the run as best as possible, which should make the play action less affective. Hope to force Brady and company into 3rd and long situations or to pass on early downs without any disguise and take your chances with Davis and Butler in coverage.

If they focus on taking away the pass as the first priority it will be a very long day for them as they watch the three headed monster run up and down the field all day. This will give the Pats Receivers a lot of opportunities to win the one on battles and get open, if we get behind them then it will ultimately loosen the box.

 

[supafly]

Good points...I am changing gears here a bit, mostly because I think all your points are valid...but to be honest I don't think he has to catch a ball to open the defense, he just has to get behind them once and have Brady lob him one. If that happens that will be bad news for their D.

I too, often continue to learn from others and see things from different angles, so there are plenty of times where I see things a bit differently after hearing someone point out certain aspects. It's one of the reasons I love this forum

I agree with you that Thompkins, or anyone else for that matter has the ability to get behind the defense, for any number of reasons whether it be play design, a breakdown of defensive assignments, someone slipping on the field, etc; so that's certainly very reasonable to think.

I wouldn't mind seeing Thompkins get some early looks with some quick passes, just to help him get in a groove, and to also help to loosen up Amendola and Edelman--who will be the key focus of the passing defense. I think this could coincide with our continuing to get rid of the ball very quickly, thus negating the rush provided by guys like Mathis etc. It may also help to spread the defenders around a bit which may help for that big play that you referred to earlier.

All it takes it one/two bigger plays, so I don't think any of us care who gets them. There's actually even the possibility of a guy like Devlin, Hooman, or Mulligan getting open and snagging in a key 15-20 yd catch to help us get the momentum, as low as the odds probably are of that happening. One thing is for sure---someone is going to have to step up and show some of the toughness and persistence that has helped to define our current 2013 year.

 

[MossWelkowski]

Does the Rain Scare you?

I feel that the only way the colts can win this game is if the patriots turn the ball over.


They fumbled 5 times vs the bills in the rain.

Ugh.

 

[RIpats88]

Boston Sports Media Watch ? Watching The New England Sports Media Since 2002



:bricks::bricks:

Dan Shaugenessy is the worst boston media guy. probably right next to borges. Everytime I listen to boston media(including felger/mazz) it almost seems like they want the patriots to lose so they can go on and on about how "belicheck is a bad GM" and how "horrible" the team is and how the Krafts are "cheap"

I understand being objective and not being a homer, but its too much on the other end with the boston sports media at times.

 

[MossWelkowski]

The rain scares the hell outta me

 

[BradyManny]

This marks the second straight year that Shaugnessy has put out some controversial article slamming the other team and their chances the week before the AFCDG, and the second straight year he got a lot of attention, went on tons of radio stations in different areas, and got people in other areas of the country to know his name.

Since his goal is just to be a total whore and not write anything of value, he's 2 for 2.

 

[1960Pats]

So even before 2007 we are better when we had no game tape of defensive signals to dissect in order to get ready for a playoff opponent? This news would shock Patriots haters everywhere who want to give us asterisks.

I don't care what any of the asterjerks think, especially the old geezer in Miami that started it all.

 

[1960Pats]

I don't understand. Is he just out and out saying he wants the Pats to lose? Not that I care. I don't read or listen to him at all.

I don't read his baloney either, well, until I come to threads like this.

 

[ivanvamp]

Of course not. The prevailing theme right now on the globe -both gasper and CHB is that pats have to blow out the colts or win easily else its a choke job.

At this point in the year, it's all about surviving and advancing. I don't care if the Pats have to win by some ridiculous fluke play. Just win, any way possible.

 

[dales804]

Dan Shaugenessy is the worst boston media guy. probably right next to borges. Everytime I listen to boston media(including felger/mazz) it almost seems like they want the patriots to lose so they can go on and on about how "belicheck is a bad GM" and how "horrible" the team is and how the Krafts are "cheap"

I understand being objective and not being a homer, but its too much on the other end with the boston sports media at times.

It's way too much now, you're right. Whatever day Deion signed with the Colts, I was tuned in to 98.5 during a Salk & Holley commercial and they were discussing the signing by the Colts. And, of course, they had to get on their soap box and start preaching how the Patriots are pissed off about this and Deion is probably trying to stick it to BB (Felger insinuated this) and how the Pats would do the same exact thing so they can't be upset.

I was thinking, all I heard today from the Pats was BB saying how great Deion was when he was here and how hard a worker and smart player, good leader he was. Brady wished his friend well and said he's glad he got another chance. It's amazing how those two a-holes turn a non-story into gossip.

Then Mazz is trying to make some point about how Patriots fans are saying IND is desperate because of the Branch signing and noted how the Patriots brought on Reggie Dunn. He starts squeaking, "well the Patriots must be desperate, too." Of course, Dunn is on the practice squad which he had no idea about. It was pointed out to him by Bertrand that Je'Gared Davis was promoted to the 53 and Mazz, again, squeals, "they're still desperate." It's nauseating.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Field Yates ‏@FieldYates 11m
Patriots WR Aaron Dobson the only player not spotted at practice. Has missed each day this week, casting doubt on his status for Saturday.

Nothing new today, just Dobson out again.

 

[Sicilian]

Nothing new today, just Dobson out again.

Yeah, I've accepted he won't be available for this game and moved on. I think Edelman/Amendola/Thompkins/Collie are good enough at WR to beat the Colts, assuming our running game is effective, so it doesn't worry me too much. All things being equal, it's better than having someone like Solder or Dennard not practicing.