Patriots Defense needs major work

[Deus Irae]

Wow. Really tough crowd around here lately.

To the point of the OP, yeah, he's a bit panicky and overhyped. And generalizations (sp?) never really cut it on this board. But he is right to be a bit nervous, imo. The linebackers are not setting the edge. The tackling has been spotty (even in the first half today). The cut-back run has been there against this D all year. Granted, the 'fins OL grabbed more shirts today than a bus full of teenagers at the Playboy Mansion. But that doesn't excuse the lack of penetration from the D line. There was scarce pressure on a young QB for the second week in a row. There also seems to be a lack of ferociousness in our secondary. There was a time when it was deemed suicidal to even attempt to catch a high hanging ball, especially in the middle, against this secondary. Lately, the rec'rs dont have that fear. The brutal hit is missing. This shrinks arms, and its not happening.

I really believe these deficiencies are partly the fault of the called scheme. Far too many one DL plays called by the coaches. I, for one, am not a fan of the 1-4-6 dime D on passing downs. The team has been playing a contain D for too many games now. I would really like to see a more aggressive game plan called next week.

Why on God's green earth would you want to change the game plan when it is resulting in point differentials that are higher than the points allowed average? This team has trailed twice all year.

 

[spacecrime]

It's the frigging 7th week of the season and the defense has steadily gotten WORSE. Belichick didn't have time to focus on getting them to improve before now? Defense stinks because they lack speed, sure tacklers and real talent beyond the Dline and apparently Belichick's "schemes" cannot hide those deficiencies any more.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm? If so, it isn't quite working.

If you are serious...no, you can't be. The Patriots Defense is third in the league behind the Steelers and Ravens. If the Pats stink, what do you have to say about the 18 teams with a worse defense?

 

[RayClay]

Nope.

I really think that this is more of BB holding his cards close to his vest, but it does tend to create that uneasy feeling that is being witnessed here by the numerous threads about the D.

I noticed it in the Dallas game when they caught up. No pass rush, no run D and only marginally better pass coverage.

I'd rather sub DBs for linebackers and keep 2-3 of our all pro type linemen on the field.

(Don't look now, but the next post is the opposite knee jerk from chicken little, the "how dare you have an opinion about the holy anointed gameplan of St. Bill"? )

 

[sebman2112]

Actually, YES, I do. The Colts team can't beat the Pats RUNNING the ball. Throwing, yes, but not running. And the Pats will focus on taking that away.

YOU need to wake the FU*K up. The Pats #1 defense gave up 14 points. 7 in the 1st half and 7 in the 2nd. Cassel and the #2 offense gave up a TD with the interception and the 2nd string defense gave up one.

I really wish people like yourself and PF1996 and STCJones would stfu, step back, and review the game in a sensible perspective instead of being idiots and making stupid claims based on changes in the schemes because the lead was so great.

The Pats were UP 42-7 AT THE HALF. The Pats did not run up the score like they could have. The Pats defense played almost the entire second half in a VANILLA PREVENT defense. They weren't bumping the receivers at the line or anything. And, in the 4th quarter, Santonio Thomas and LeKevin Smith were on the field with Jarvis Green.

So, while I am not thrilled at the Pats letting the Phins score 28 points, I put it in perspective. You yahoos who think you have a brain might want to step back and try it. You might actually become enlightened.

Bruinz, we've had some arguments in the past but I've got to give you some credit for this post. I'm in complete agreement. Some of these post are becoming quite pathetic.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Why on God's green earth would you want to change the game plan when it is resulting in point differentials that are higher than the points allowed average? This team has trailed twice all year.

Not all teams are the Dolphins. Other teams may be able to exploit this soft scheme. The Redskins could be one of them. Maybe not enough to win, but to challenge, anyway. The Colts the following week ARE one of them. I am of the opinion that its awefully hard to turn that kind of aggressiveness on and off like a switch.
This O is probably enough to actually win against the Colts, even if the D continues to play soft. But the O shouldn't be looked at week after week to put the game out of reach to keep the D off the field. This D has more in its tank than that.

On a personal note, I stated here over a year ago, I am of the defensive mindset. The Pats D for years did the yeomans work for this team. The adjustment is unsettling.

 

[spacecrime]

the Pats D didn't get any stops, rather the Dolphins offense shot themselves in the foot.

The old "you didn't stop me, we stopped ourselves" philosphy.

How fortunate the Patriots are that they faced seven teams each of which wanted to lose, so they stopped themselves from winning.

I'll bet the Redskins will want to stop themselves, also.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not all teams are the Dolphins. Other teams may be able to exploit this soft scheme. The Redskins could be one of them. Maybe not enough to win, but to challenge, anyway. The Colts the following week ARE one of them. I am of the opinion that its awefully hard to turn that kind of aggressiveness on and off like a switch.
This O is probably enough to actually win against the Colts, even if the D continues to play soft. But the O shouldn't be looked at week after week to put the game out of reach to keep the D off the field. This D has more in its tank than that.

On a personal note, I stated here over a year ago, I am of the defensive mindset. The Pats D for years did the yeomans work for this team. The adjustment is unsettling.

7 games into the season, not a single team has been able to exploit the scheme. Cleveland, Dallas and Cincinnati are all better offenses than Washington's, and none of them could get it done. I do have a concern about the Redskins game, though, and it's all about Jarvis Green. If Green can hold the point of attack for the first half, this game should be much like the previous 7. If he can't, the Patriots could be in a legitimate dogfight for the first time this season. However, that has nothing to do with a soft scheme, and everything to do with Green's ability to hold up against the run against a Joe Gibbs' power running team.

As for the "adjustment", if you've been watching this team play football for any period of time, you've seen this style of defense played before. By no means is this the first time it's been implemented by the Patriots. It's simply more obvious because you're seeing it starting in the 3rd quarter instead of with 5 minutes left in the game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Since some people continue to complain about the defense, let's get at least a little more specific. Would those of you crying about chunks of the sky raining down kindly list the positions on the field that are weaker today than they were last season? Seymour > Green, so that's one that everyone already knows about. Where are these other problem spots?

 

[rabthepat]

I believe we have the players and coaches to be an excellent defense. Yet, our defense, IMHO, is playing very average to date. If we played Indy this week we would have to have won by shoot out. If our offense goes cold one of these weeks the defense has not convinced me they can step up and handle it.

We gave up 21 points to Cleo Lemon (3 career starts), Ted Ginn (a Rookie) and Chris Chambers gone. Not acceptable.

Thank goodness Tom can throw 6 TDs.

 

[JJDChE]

This thread is off the unintentional comedy charts.

Coming into the Dolphins game the Patriots were in the top 10 in virtually every defensive category...total yds, points, passer rating, INTs, turnovers, yards per play, passing yds, rushing yds, 3rd down %, ypa, sacks. The only si-gnficant category that they weren't in the top 10 for was rushing ypc, they were ~16th.

Saying this D needs a major overhaul is pure stupidity.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is off the unintentional comedy charts.

Coming into the Dolphins game the Patriots were in the top 10 in virtually every defensive category...total yds, points, passer rating, INTs, turnovers, yards per play, passing yds, rushing yds, 3rd down %, ypa, sacks. The only si-gnficant category that they weren't in the top 10 for was rushing ypc, they were ~16th.

Saying this D needs a major overhaul is pure stupidity.

I'm wondering if a lot of the panic isn't coming from people who never played competive sports and don't understand the notion of playing differently with a lead.

 

[JJDChE]

I'm wondering if a lot of the panic isn't coming from people who never played competive sports and don't understand the notion of playing differently with a lead.

I'm not sure, but there is definitely something missing upstairs.

 

[RayClay]

7 games into the season, not a single team has been able to exploit the scheme. Cleveland, Dallas and Cincinnati are all better offenses than Washington's, and none of them could get it done. I do have a concern about the Redskins game, though, and it's all about Jarvis Green. If Green can hold the point of attack for the first half, this game should be much like the previous 7. If he can't, the Patriots could be in a legitimate dogfight for the first time this season. However, that has nothing to do with a soft scheme, and everything to do with Green's ability to hold up against the run against a Joe Gibbs' power running team.

As for the "adjustment", if you've been watching this team play football for any period of time, you've seen this style of defense played before. By no means is this the first time it's been implemented by the Patriots. It's simply more obvious because you're seeing it starting in the 3rd quarter instead of with 5 minutes left in the game.

You might want to check the second and third quarters of the Dallas game.

Start where the announcer says "The Patriots are playing with only one lineman". Because he says it and they proceed to go from a big lead to a deficit. I'm sure they got out of it at some point, but...

 

[patsox23]

This thread is off the unintentional comedy charts.

Coming into the Dolphins game the Patriots were in the top 10 in virtually every defensive category...total yds, points, passer rating, INTs, turnovers, yards per play, passing yds, rushing yds, 3rd down %, ypa, sacks. The only si-gnficant category that they weren't in the top 10 for was rushing ypc, they were ~16th.

Saying this D needs a major overhaul is pure stupidity.

Agree. These people really are veering off into "PS23 throws a tantrum and has to pull out the A-hole card" territory. EVERYBODY HERE wishes the D had tackled a bit better today, but you people are off-the-charts insane, leaning toward having long tongues and vacant eyes - if you think that the Pats are somehow "doomed" by this defense.

I'd like the Pats D to tighten up and I expect them to - but I also acknowledge that when you put in 6 DBs and ONE defensive lineman, there's probably going to be some long drives. I also acknowledge, and wish you would as well, that this D has been among the top defense's in the league and is almost assuredly going to improve - not just with the advent of Richard Semour, but with closer contests and playoff weather.

Let's do this. Let's try and change the tone. Let's ALL hope that Belichick and the staff gets through to the players this week, with a tougher opponent on the way, and whip their tackling technique back into shape. Let's all just hope that things tighten up a bit so we don't have to have annoying, ridiculous threads like this one every F-ing week.

Deal?

 

[patsox23]

You might want to check the second and third quarters of the Dallas game.

Start where the announcer says "The Patriots are playing with only one lineman". Because he says it and they proceed to go from a big lead to a deficit. I'm sure they got out of it at some point, but...

I believe what the poster meant is that using that scheme to "give" certain things, and take away certain things, has worked every time, in that it has killed clock and led to double-digit victories.

 

[RayClay]

7 games into the season, not a single team has been able to exploit the scheme. Cleveland, Dallas and Cincinnati are all better offenses than Washington's, and none of them could get it done. I do have a concern about the Redskins game, though, and it's all about Jarvis Green. If Green can hold the point of attack for the first half, this game should be much like the previous 7. If he can't, the Patriots could be in a legitimate dogfight for the first time this season. However, that has nothing to do with a soft scheme, and everything to do with Green's ability to hold up against the run against a Joe Gibbs' power running team.

As for the "adjustment", if you've been watching this team play football for any period of time, you've seen this style of defense played before. By no means is this the first time it's been implemented by the Patriots. It's simply more obvious because you're seeing it starting in the 3rd quarter instead of with 5 minutes left in the game.

They excelled in this defense previously. However two of the biggest parts (Bru and Harrison) are showing a little wear and tear and A.D. is probably not up to speed, understandably.

 

[RayClay]

I believe what the poster meant is that using that scheme to "give" certain things, and take away certain things, has worked every time, in that it has killed clock and led to double-digit victories.

We had a big lead and lost it. What was your point?

Of course we piled on the offense, but I think our best defense this year has been with all three linemen. Athletically, they are superior at their position while our linebackers are smart, but less athletic than average IMO.

In the Dallas game, our pass defense was poor during quarters 2 and 3.

We did give up any pretense of a pass rush and run D, so it was a give, give, don't get.

 

[Deus Irae]

You might want to check the second and third quarters of the Dallas game.

Start where the announcer says "The Patriots are playing with only one lineman". Because he says it and they proceed to go from a big lead to a deficit. I'm sure they got out of it at some point, but...

I watched the Dallas game. All 4 quarters. There is a difference between a team getting a good drive or two and a defense that can't get the job done. That seems to be what those panicking are choosing to ignore.

 

[RayClay]

I believe what the poster meant is that using that scheme to "give" certain things, and take away certain things, has worked every time, in that it has killed clock and led to double-digit victories.

We had a big lead and lost it. What was your point?

Of course we piled on the offense, but I think our best defense this year has been with all three linemen. Athletically, they are superior at their position while our linebackers are smart, but less athletic than average IMO.

In the Dallas game, our pass defense was poor during quarters 2 and 3.

We did give up any pretense of a pass rush and run D, so it was a give, give, don't get.


By the way, I'm talking about Dallas when the game counted. We were up 42-7 today fer crissake.

 

[patsox23]

Didn't the Pats talk about this spurt of productivity ('scuse me) and how they went to the sideline and made some adjustments to Dallas's scheme? Doesn't this sort of fall under the "they pay the other guys, too" category? And didn't we MAKE the adjustments and then shut them down 27-3 the rest of the way en route to ANOTHER lopsided victory.

I swear to God, the chicken littles are p!ssing me off - you are WASTING our time with this nonsense. And before you say it, know this - WE ARE NOT ASKING YOU TO NOT CRITICIZE THE PATRIOTS. We're asking you to make LEGIT criticisms. Is the D showing some weak spots? Yep. Are they fixable? I think so. Are we F'd if we can't fix them? Frankly...probably not. But the doomsayers are just ridiculous and you need to chill.

Perhaps best to let stuff like this die on the vine?