Patriots Defense needs major work

[RayClay]

I watched the Dallas game. All 4 quarters. There is a difference between a team getting a good drive or two and a defense that can't get the job done. That seems to be what those panicking are choosing to ignore.

I'm not panicking, just following up on a posters comment. This team is loaded. Despite being great in almost every area, I would like to see them avoid the 1 lineman 4 LBs unless they can get it to work better. They simply have a lot more athleticism on the DL and defensive backfield.

There have been a lot of stoopid posts today, but I've been fighting them, not agreeing with them. We were up 42-7.

It just seems the package that worked so well 2-3 years ago, might need tweaking due to the athleticism at different positions. We used to be able to cover, still get a rush and hold the run from that package. I'm just not seeing the advantage to that package anymore, but I am seeing what we give up.

We've got 4 potential starting safeties and our linemen are playing like all pros.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Agree. These people really are veering off into "PS23 throws a tantrum and has to pull out the A-hole card" territory. EVERYBODY HERE wishes the D had tackled a bit better today, but you people are off-the-charts insane, leaning toward having long tongues and vacant eyes - if you think that the Pats are somehow "doomed" by this defense.

I'd like the Pats D to tighten up and I expect them to - but I also acknowledge that when you put in 6 DBs and ONE defensive lineman, there's probably going to be some long drives. I also acknowledge, and wish you would as well, that this D has been among the top defense's in the league and is almost assuredly going to improve - not just with the advent of Richard Semour, but with closer contests and playoff weather.

Let's do this. Let's try and change the tone. Let's ALL hope that Belichick and the staff gets through to the players this week, with a tougher opponent on the way, and whip their tackling technique back into shape. Let's all just hope that things tighten up a bit so we don't have to have annoying, ridiculous threads like this one every F-ing week.

Deal?

Well said, for the most part. Far too much internal hostility on this board. And that was the intent of my original post. This D is good, has some tweaking to do, and would benefit from a different scheme. With this tone in mind perhaps we could anylize things much more objectively.

 

[RayClay]

I believe what the poster meant is that using that scheme to "give" certain things, and take away certain things, has worked every time, in that it has killed clock and led to double-digit victories.

You realize I'm actually trying to talk football, not complaining about a game we ruled 42-7 by the half.

I just don't want to wait for the suicide lemmings to clear out before mentioning one of the only facets of the team even worth questioning.

Jeez, we have to talk about something. And we need to have our pass D 100% for the Colts

 

[shirtsleeve]

I just don't want to wait for the suicide lemmings to clear out before mentioning one of the only facets of the team even worth questioning.

Jeez, we have to talk about something. And we need to have our pass D 100% for the Colts

Exactly. There seem to be too many extremists around here lately. You've got the "suicide lemmings" (LOL), or the ballwashers. Lets have some constructive criticism and discussion of the team, warts and all, and leave the hyberbole to the media.

 

[RayClay]

Exactly. There seem to be too many extremists around here lately. You've got the "suicide lemmings" (LOL), or the ballwashers. Lets have some constructive criticism and discussion of the team, warts and all, and leave the hyberbole to the media.

Yeah, I just realized I need this disclaimer.

I do not agree with the title of this thread!

 

[Deus Irae]

We had a big lead and lost it. What was your point?

Of course we piled on the offense, but I think our best defense this year has been with all three linemen. Athletically, they are superior at their position while our linebackers are smart, but less athletic than average IMO.

In the Dallas game, our pass defense was poor during quarters 2 and 3.

We did give up any pretense of a pass rush and run D, so it was a give, give, don't get.


By the way, I'm talking about Dallas when the game counted. We were up 42-7 today fer crissake.

In Dallas, 'when the game counted', it was the offense that led to the problems, when they allowed the sack/TD. It changed the momentum of the game and New England took some time to change things back. And, something you have failed to point out is that Dallas is the #1 scoring team in the second half of games in the entire NFL, and #2 in the league overall. No team, even the great Chicago Bears in 1985, pitches a shutout every game. That team did, in fact, allow more than 20 points 3 times that season, including allowing 38 points to the Dolphins.

Using points as the barometer, New England has faced 4 of the 10 best offenses in the league other than their won, and still rank #5 defensively. That's even though they are clearly playing lost of prevent style defense in the second halves of games. Rumors of the defense's demise have been greatly exaggerated.


P.S. I posted this before seeing your earlier response to my post. I'll keep this up as a response to the "PANIC" people, but I don't include you in that list.

 

[patsox23]

Jeez, we have to talk about something. And we need to have our pass D 100% for the Colts

No we don't. Sorry, we just don't. And I don't buy the premise of what I think some of you are insinuating. The Pats pass D is not as good as it can be and should be, but it's almost certainly as good as it needs to be.

That said, in the spirit of "talking football," I think the pass D is somewhere in between "a concern" and "very likely to improve." It's a combination of poor-ish play on some parts that need to improve, intentionally conservative/vanilla defensive playcalling (because we can, and because of "why should we give anything away" issues), the absence of a FORCE like Richard Seymour, the nicked-up-ness of Adalius and the rust/possible deterioration of Rodney. Oh. And it's also TOP 10.

None of this really concerns me much. If we stay healthy, we will absolutely smoke Indy the same way we smoked Dallas. It might be a bit more of a challenge, but I'd be pretty surprised if we were trailing LATER in that game than we were in the Cowboys game.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

You think this defense will shut down the Colts..wake the F&#$% Up

good point

we need to tighten up-but we should be prepared by the 4th.

Its a must win - I agree!

 

[jct]

You think this defense will shut down the Colts..wake the F&#$% Up

WE only tried for the first half and 1 series in the 2nd half.
Of course we will slaughter them...

 

[RayClay]

In Dallas, 'when the game counted', it was the offense that led to the problems, when they allowed the sack/TD. It changed the momentum of the game and New England took some time to change things back. And, something you have failed to point out is that Dallas is the #1 scoring team in the second half of games in the entire NFL, and #2 in the league overall. No team, even the great Chicago Bears in 1985, pitches a shutout every game. That team did, in fact, allow more than 20 points 3 times that season, including allowing 38 points to the Dolphins.

Using points as the barometer, New England has faced 4 of the 10 best offenses in the league other than their won, and still rank #5 defensively. That's even though they are clearly playing lost of prevent style defense in the second halves of games. Rumors of the defense's demise have been greatly exaggerated.


P.S. I posted this before seeing your earlier response to my post. I'll keep this up as a response to the "PANIC" people, but I don't include you in that list.

Thank you, I was starting to realize that (you thought I was one of the defense suicide girls).

On a team with as few potential difficulties as any I have seen, I think the pass situation special packages need to be looked at and I just agreed with Shirtsleeve.

I'm sure BB will look at them and have some tweaks as I don't expect him to spend practice patting everybody on the back and eating pizza.

On a related note Ronnie Brown averaged 4.47 yards against a mostly prevent defense.

I don't want to bump the other morons thread, but that means he would have needed over 100 carries to gain the 480 yards necessary to score 6 touchdowns (42 points).

 

[RayClay]

No we don't. Sorry, we just don't. And I don't buy the premise of what I think some of you are insinuating. The Pats pass D is not as good as it can be and should be, but it's almost certainly as good as it needs to be.

That said, in the spirit of "talking football," I think the pass D is somewhere in between "a concern" and "very likely to improve." It's a combination of poor-ish play on some parts that need to improve, intentionally conservative/vanilla defensive playcalling (because we can, and because of "why should we give anything away" issues), the absence of a FORCE like Richard Seymour, the nicked-up-ness of Adalius and the rust/possible deterioration of Rodney. Oh. And it's also TOP 10.

None of this really concerns me much. If we stay healthy, we will absolutely smoke Indy the same way we smoked Dallas. It might be a bit more of a challenge, but I'd be pretty surprised if we were trailing LATER in that game than we were in the Cowboys game.

Oh fer great goodness golly sake. Sure our pass defense could be 80% or 90% and we could still win.

Let's quit splitting infinite hairs and just agree it is an area to be worked on.

I personally think they have the personnel to address what is one of the few issues on this team, but it's because we have 4 top safeties (one's a rook) and the best line anywhere once Seymour gets back.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

As for the "adjustment", if you've been watching this team play football for any period of time, you've seen this style of defense played before. By no means is this the first time it's been implemented by the Patriots. It's simply more obvious because you're seeing it starting in the 3rd quarter instead of with 5 minutes left in the game.

Thats an excellent point and very true..

 

[cstjohn17]

Jeez, we have to talk about something. And we need to have our pass D 100% for the Colts

The most important thing is to have 3 out of the 5 LBs (Colvin, Bruschi, Thomas, Seau, Vrabel) healthy for the playoffs. Currently Thomas and Colvin are nicked up but the bye week is coming up which will help. There is also something to be said for human nature, when your team is up by 40 points it is natural to play with less urgency.

Washington has a very good running attack, this will be a great week for BB to go old school and send the boys to tackling camp. The practices will be full contact and the focus on Sunday will be to stop the run, expect some real smash mouth football. These lessons will be carried over against future opponents (Steelers, Ravens) so that when the playoffs come the team is well prepared to stop the running attacks of Jacksonville, Steelers and/or Chargers.

Indy is unique in that they have such a good passing game, much different than the rest of the AFC. Seymour should be back for this game and I expect to see something similar to the Dallas game (but improved). In the end the offenses will rule the day, I don't expect a 9-6 outcome. The W is more important than the style.

 

[jaytyme]

what is the mission statement of the patriots defense? is it:

1.) to stop the opposition and allow less than 14 points/game. or
2.) to contraiin the opposition to scoring less than we score.

whereas i would argue that the mission was 1.) for the 1st 6 years of the brady era. i believe the D's mission has changed to 2.) this season.

All the posters who are upset and concerned with the D's play are comparing this years edition to previous years. Apples to oranges. this years D has not been forced to stop an oppopent with a lead in danger. on the 1 occassion when they were pressed, they responded (2nd half at dallas 27-3).

in previous years, we won because our D stopped teams (giving brady a chance to win it). this year we win because brady dominates and the D contains.

stop worrying, if our D wasn't working, we wouldn't be winning by 3 TD's a game.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Thank you......I am off here for awhile after this post........but this is the main point....against the Colts it will be balls to the wall......and any layoffs ....or GETTING USED to layoffs is not going to get it done....Indy will be our biggest test with Pitt not that far behind.....will be very interesting.....

Indy will be a pretty good test, especially for our running game, which should tell us a lot about where we stand, and where they stand, as well.

After last night's game, I'm not particularly in awe of Pitt. They could bring their 'A' game that day, which would be a real good thing for them, as they'll really need it!

Indy ranks high in pass defense presently, but that's because most teams are running against them. All other things being equal, I have great confidence in this Pats team being able to exploit their passing game to the max against the Colts.

Yes, it will be interesting, but right now I'm much more interested in how we approach the Washington Redskins and their power running game.

A good tune-up....

 

[aluminum seats]

Long thread here........

The defense has obviously not been in a complete shut-down mode to this point. The fact is, it's very difficult to gauge where a defensive unit is when the offense is scoring so many points. It just is--if a team is up by 30 points, the defense will invariably be a bit softer, say, against the run.

I would say that the 27-3 run to close out Dallas can be taken as a sign that the unit can step up when it has to. I also think Harrison remains a very important piece of the defense, particularly against the Colts.

When Seymour comes back, if Harrison, the linebackers, etc. are healthy, the defense will be truly frightening. Don't think they are there yet, but they haven't had to be.

 

[letekro]

Indy will be a pretty good test, especially for our running game, which should tell us a lot about where we stand, and where they stand, as well.

After last night's game, I'm not particularly in awe of Pitt. They could bring their 'A' game that day, which would be a real good thing for them, as they'll really need it!

Indy ranks high in pass defense presently, but that's because most teams are running against them. All other things being equal, I have great confidence in this Pats team being able to exploit their passing game to the max against the Colts.

Yes, it will be interesting, but right now I'm much more interested in how we approach the Washington Redskins and their power running game.

A good tune-up....

By "power running game" you're referring to their 25th ranked 3.6 ypc running game?

 

[All_Around_Brown]

Seems to me that this defense will most likely get better as time goes on...which is frightening. They seem to have their way during stretches and then forget how to tackle. Thats gotta bug BB to no end. Missed tackles last week on Barber and this week on Chatman really stood out.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Patriots Defense needs major work.I love the offense but the defense is awful

Sorry spinb it any way you want it the D is terrible....

Thank you for your thoughtful, insightful analysis.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

By "power running game" you're referring to their 25th ranked 3.6 ypc running game?

Yep. That one! !!!!