Patriots ask for permission to speak with Josh McDaniels

[MoLewisrocks]

I think what we know so far about the two teams asking for permission is a pretty clear indication that the plan in KC was to make RAC's job permanent with Josh as the OC and HC in waiting knowing RAC will be gone in a couple of years tops. What Pioli has to decide now is whether he offers Josh the HC job now and tries to convince RAC to remain as the DC and Asst. HC. and whether RAC would be willing to or just persue a college HC gig like Charlie did. And I doubt even Scott is comfortable with Josh as a stand alone HC again just yet. Charlie, whose timing btw is less than steller these days...although probably having pushed Scott to make a choice last season and that choice being to stay the course with Haley bridges may have been burned at least professionally on that score. And given Patricia's performance this season under what can only be described as abyssmal conditions, I don't see Bill bringing RAC back (or RAC longing to come back...) no matter how many fans see the logic in it. The players seem to be finally embracing Matt as more than some booksmart guy hatched in Bill's lab if Mayo's comments are any indication.

 

[Mossed]

As much as it would make sense, I don't see him coming back here. Seems like a no-win situation for him.

If he does good and the offense is performing, people will point to Brady and Belichick and the system. Can't really see McDaniels 'redeeming' himself here.

If he were to go somewhere else, say KC, I think it would give him a better chance to boost his image and give him a better chance to go back to being a head coach sooner.

I really hope he comes back though, because the other options don't seem to promising.

 

[AnwmdN27]

I'd be up for it. McDaniels gave us the best season for an offense ever, would be awesome to relive that. We have so much talent for him to work with here; Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, OchoCinco and even guys that can play offense and defense like Antwaun Molden. It would be good times again.

 

[Warren1985]

I can see McDaniels back here, and I think we can entice him too. He didnt leave on bad terms he just left for a HC job...Bring him back 07 was fun (for the most part)

 

[Rusty Coupe]

Mike Tice was just named offensive coordinator in Chicago. Given that sort of news to compare to, anyone who complains about McDaniels should probably be flayed alive.

Chicago has a larger lake, bigger boats - better parties

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

As much as it would make sense, I don't see him coming back here. Seems like a no-win situation for him.

Let's look at it (a little) form McD's perspective and why it might be good for him to come back into the fold. First, it's a smothh transition and that he knows a majority of the staff and some of the players. Also, he learned part of what makes BB a success but couldn't quite combine it with his own style. This will give him an opportunity to take what he learned during his time away and figure out what went wrong by being back with BB.

If he does good and the offense is performing, people will point to Brady and Belichick and the system. Can't really see McDaniels 'redeeming' himself here.

Yeah, hard to go up from the offensive production of this season, but sustaining it would also be beneficial to him as well.

If he were to go somewhere else, say KC, I think it would give him a better chance to boost his image and give him a better chance to go back to being a head coach sooner.

Nothing and I mean nothing boost your image better than winning. With NEP it's pretty mcuh guaranteed (though huge downside if it turns bad) and KC has no such guarantees.

 

[Afam]

lmao.that was a good one

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Where is your proof that McDaniels influenced Belichick on those two. There is no proof other than the McDaniels haters wanting to attribute every failure of the offense during that time period on him.

Michael Holley wrote an extensively about that draft in his current book especially about the selection of both Maroney and Jackson. If McDaniels was so influencial on those picks, you will be able to pull a wealth of material from that book to back up your claim. I haven't read the book but from my understanding Holley suggests that McDaniels was influential on the Maroney pick, but not Jackson.

Why don't you READ THE BOOK first before coming up with uninformed, really weak of reasons to defend McDaniels as a personnel guy? In a big coincidence, the Patriots drafted poorly from 2006-2008 but drafted well during the times before 2006 and after 2008 when McDaniels was no longer in the Patriots draft room. McDaniels has already proven himself as an offensive coordinator, but let's not go around pretending he's responsible for Denver's 8-8 turnaround season this year like other posters have tried. This is a guy who destroyed Denver's roster with over a dozen terrible moves (including trading for Maroney) so much that they lost almost all of his last 20 games coaching in Denver. It's funny how people try to give McDaniels credit that the Broncos were so bad from him that they got to draft Von Miller after he left. Still, John Fox had to do major fixes because that Denver team still started out 1-4 this year, so the improvements were by John Fox, not McDaniels. I think McDaniels is a good coordinator but let's also stop with the excuses for why this year the Rams finished dead last in points per game, total yards, and 3rd down with Bradford and Steven Jackson. The Rams offense finished worse than the Chiefs who lost all their stars and had Tyler Palko at QB, worse than the Suck for Luck Colts with Curtis Painter, worse than the Vikings with Christian Ponder, and before you point out injuries most of those didn't happen until after week 8, when the Rams were 0-8 and were the worst offense in the league even before injuries.

I'd rather promote Ferentz and give him the same BOB treatment where he has the unofficial title for a year, then the OC job the year after. Ferentz did a fabulous job with Gronk and Hernandez the past two years coaching the tight ends. Our offense is very different now from when McDaniels is here. We're not a passing only attack anymore, we have a two tight end offense where we can pass or run on any down with success, and with Brady under center.

.

 

[ivanvamp]

McDaniels is one of the best play-callers (and play designers) I've ever seen. I'd absolutely welcome him back.

Sign the beast!

 

[Absurdly Metro]

While I would welcome the move, I would think KC would be a better career move for him. In NE, it'll be "been there done that", not to mention BB and TB getting much of the credit. In KC, he'll have the chance to improve an offense and leave a new mark.

Been there? Yes. done that? Nope. JMcD never won a Superbowl.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Why don't you READ THE BOOK first before coming up with uninformed, really weak of reasons to defend McDaniels as a personnel guy? In a big coincidence, the Patriots drafted poorly from 2006-2008 but drafted well both before and after those years when McDaniels was not in the draft room. McDaniels has already proven himself as an offensive coordinator, but let's not go around pretending he's responsible for Denver's 8-8 turnaround season this year like other posters have tried. This is a guy who destroyed Denver's roster with over a dozen terrible moves (including trading for Maroney) so much that they lost almost all of his last 20 games coaching in Denver. It's funny how people try to give McDaniels credit that the Broncos were so bad from him that they got to draft Von Miller after he left. Still, John Fox had to do major fixes because that Denver team still started out 1-4 this year, so the improvements were by John Fox, not McDaniels. I think McDaniels is a good coordinator but let's also stop with the excuses for why this year the Rams finished dead last in points per game, total yards, and 3rd down with Bradford and Steven Jackson. The Rams finished worse than the Chiefs who lost all their stars and had Tyler Palko at QB, worse than the Suck for Luck Colts with Curtis Painter, worse than the Vikings with Christian Ponder, and before you point out injuries most of those didn't happen until after week 8, when the Rams were 0-8 and were the worst offense in the league even before injuries.

I'd rather promote Ferentz and give him the same BOB treatment where he has the unofficial title for a year, then the OC job the year after. Ferentz did a fabulous job with Gronk and Hernandez the past two years coaching the tight ends. Our offense is very different now from when McDaniels is here. We're not a passing only attack anymore, we have a two tight end offense where we can pass or run on any down with success, and with Brady under center.

Ferentz wasn't the TE's coach last year. We didn't have one. He didn't have an off season with the TE's this season. We didn't have one. Now maybe he or our WR's coach who hasn't been able to integrate anyone into the offense since he wrested that title away from our defacto GM (who still helps out) are on track to be potential OC's one of these days, but Bill seems to think today isn't that day so smart fans might tend to defer to his informed judgement once again...

 

[RodThePat]

We're not a passing only attack anymore, we have a two tight end offense where we can pass or run on any down with success, and with Brady under center.

Do you even watch the games? Serious question here. We do indeed have an offense based primarily on our two tight-ends, but very rarely are they both lined up at TE at the same time. This is Brady's offense. Hell, he passed for the second most amount of yards in the history of the league, how can you say we are not a passing only attack anymore? Aside from that, are you really saying that we ran the ball more this season than we did with Josh in 2006-2008? Because if so, you are gravely mistaken.

Name me 3 occasions in which we maintained a balanced offense, running the ball often when the game was still in doubt. It didn't happen. When things got tough the Patriots went spread formation, no huddle, and marched straight down the field. Throwing the football was what kept not only of the offense, but the whole team together in 2011.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Ferentz wasn't the TE's coach last year. We didn't have one. He didn't have an off season with the TE's this season. We didn't have one. Now maybe he or our WR's coach who hasn't been able to integrate anyone into the offense since he wrested that title away from our defacto GM (who still helps out) are on track to be potential OC's one of these days, but Bill seems to think today isn't that day so smart fans might tend to defer to his informed judgement once again...

Belichick has already proven multiple times that he can pick out completely random people and make them good coordinators. BOB came from no-success at Duke and put up huge points here. McDaniels did nothing before coming here. Belichick is as good at coaching up coordinators as he is coaching up players (like David Givens, Matt Cassel, and many others). The one thing he can't do is see every single college player and all their plays, or every single NFL player and all their plays. And as we've seen, Belichick has been given bad info in the past in terms of drafts and personnel. Belichick does the best with the info he's given, and he has to trust that it's reliable. In McDaniels' case he's proven to have an adverse impact in terms of personnel scouting and management.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Do you even watch the games? Serious question here. We do indeed have an offense based primarily on our two tight-ends, but very rarely are they both lined up at TE at the same time. This is Brady's offense. Hell, he passed for the second most amount of yards in the history of the league, how can you say we are not a passing only attack anymore? Aside from that, are you really saying that we ran the ball more this season than we did in 2006-2008? Because if so, you are gravely mistaken.

Name me 3 occasions in which we maintained a balanced offense, running the ball often when the game was still in doubt. It didn't happen. When things got tough the Patriots went spread formation, no huddle, and marched straight down the field. Throwing the football was what kept not only of the offense, but the whole team together in 2011.

The Patriots were a good rushing attack under BOB, and Law Firm broke 1000 yards for a Pats RB for the first time in awhile, plus tons of rushing TD's the past two years. The RB rotation is also much, much better under this regime. We have two tight ends which is a lot more difficult to defend because depending on what the defense puts on the tight ends (linebacker or corner), Brady can audible to a run or pass and have success. With McDaniels it was way more passing and not under center, and basically daring defenses to beat a highly executed, telegraphed passing play. I think BOB's offense is a lot more dangerous and comes through more often in the red zone or first down because it is less predictable with the two tight ends.

.

 

[borg]

Peter King tweets St Louis will not hold McDaniels to his contract....free to go

 

[Rob0729]

Why don't you READ THE BOOK first before coming up with uninformed, really weak of reasons to defend McDaniels as a personnel guy? In a big coincidence, the Patriots drafted poorly from 2006-2008 but drafted well during the times before 2006 and after 2008 when McDaniels was not in the Patriots draft room. McDaniels has already proven himself as an offensive coordinator, but let's not go around pretending he's responsible for Denver's 8-8 turnaround season this year like other posters have tried. This is a guy who destroyed Denver's roster with over a dozen terrible moves (including trading for Maroney) so much that they lost almost all of his last 20 games coaching in Denver. It's funny how people try to give McDaniels credit that the Broncos were so bad from him that they got to draft Von Miller after he left. Still, John Fox had to do major fixes because that Denver team still started out 1-4 this year, so the improvements were by John Fox, not McDaniels. I think McDaniels is a good coordinator but let's also stop with the excuses for why this year the Rams finished dead last in points per game, total yards, and 3rd down with Bradford and Steven Jackson. The Rams finished worse than the Chiefs who lost all their stars and had Tyler Palko at QB, worse than the Suck for Luck Colts with Curtis Painter, worse than the Vikings with Christian Ponder, and before you point out injuries most of those didn't happen until after week 8, when the Rams were 0-8 and were the worst offense in the league even before injuries.

I'd rather promote Ferentz and give him the same BOB treatment where he has the unofficial title for a year, then the OC job the year after. Ferentz did a fabulous job with Gronk and Hernandez the past two years coaching the tight ends. Our offense is very different now from when McDaniels is here. We're not a passing only attack anymore, we have a two tight end offense where we can pass or run on any down with success, and with Brady under center.

.

You do realize from 2006-2008, the Pats mostly drafted defensive players. So now you are blaming McDaniels for guys Kareem, Brown, Justin Rogers, Terrance Wheatley, Shawn Crable, amd Jonathan Wilhite? Why don't you read the book? I know enough of the book to know that it was Belichick and Pioli calling the shots, not McDaniels. Belichick didn't let McDaniels make all the offensive picks.

You McDaniels haters are too funny. If McDaniels comes back to be the OC, he isn't making the calls in the draft. I admit he has been awful at making personnel decisions, but that won't be his job as OC. He influenced the Maroney pick for one reason - his brother Ben was a position coach at Minnesota and gave a recommendation of Maroney to his brother. Ben McDaniels is now the Offensive Coordinator of Columbia University. I don't think Ben will be in the position to recommend many NFL quality prospects out of the Ivy League Conference.

So I agree with the argument that McDaniels is not qualified to make draft decisions. Ironically, as the Offensive Coordinator, he has no such responsibilities. No one has any proof that he influenced any draft picks other than Maroney during his tenure here and that was only because his brother was a coach on Maroney's college team. Otherwise, there is no proof that Belichick has ever sought his consultation of draft picks other than Matt Cassel who McDaniels did meet with before the draft.

Note: Here are the offensive players the Pats drafted from 2005 -2008 where McDaniels ran the offense:

2005
Mankins 1st round
Kazcur 3rd round
Cassel 7th
Stokes 7th

2006
Maroney 1st
Jackson 2nd
Dave Thomas 3rd
Garett Mills 4th
O;Callahan 5th
Stevenson 6th

2007
Oldenberg 5th
Hillard 6th

2008
O'Connell 3rd

 

[ivanvamp]

People, O'Brien is gone and the Pats will need a new OC. My question for anyone who doesn't want McDaniels: Who, exactly, do you want? Who is out there that would be better than McDaniels?

I don't know if McDaniels is the best guy for the job, but I also don't know of anyone that would be better. He already has years invested in this system so it would be pretty much a seamless transition for the players. He has already had a lot of success as an OC. One would hope that he's learned some lessons from his HC experience.

I can't think of a better candidate, given all that, than McDaniels.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

Yes, the Patriots are different offense with the TE's than they were 3 years ago. If McD called too many screens, it could also be argued that BoB almost never used them.
NFL Videos: QB Brady to RB Green-Ellis, 53-yd, pass
Why not use something that the personnel are capable of doing, this is one of the very few screens I can recall this year. Getting back to screens may also utilize Ridley and Vareen more into the gameplan.

 

[RodThePat]

The Patriots were a good rushing attack under BOB, and Law Firm broke 1000 yards for a Pats RB for the first time in awhile, plus tons of TD's the past two years. The RB rotation is also much, much better under this regime. We have two tight ends which is a lot more difficult to defend because depending on what the defense puts on the tight ends (linebacker or corner), Brady can audible to a run or pass and have success. With McDaniels it was way more passing and not under center, and basically daring defenses to beat a highly executed, telegraphed passing play.

We were a good running team in 2010, but the 2011 season has been pretty much a replica of 2007. Most of the passing plays come out of a shotgun formation, the only difference is that the long balls to Moss have been replaced by shorter passes to our TEs. You are insinuating McDaniels wouldn't be capable to adapt our offense with the arrival of Gronkowski and Hernandez, which, as history shows, is not true. McDaniels was the OC in a season in which we had no WRs (2006), a season in which we were loaded with offensive weapons, including the greatest deep threat of all time (2007) and a season with Matt Cassel at QB (2008). The offense was VERY different in those seasons, it wasn't always shotgun, deep balls, throw it all over the field. In 2007 we had the weapons to do that, that style of play suited our personnel the best, so we empolyed that kind of offensive philosophy. That's a compliment to McDaniels as a coach.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

No one has any proof that he influenced any draft picks other than Maroney during his tenure here and that was only because his brother was a coach on Maroney's college team. Otherwise, there is no proof that Belichick has ever sought his consultation of draft picks other than Matt Cassel who McDaniels did meet with before the draft.

I don't care enough about this to correct your ignorant claims based on not doing any reading or research, but I distinctly remember media articles about McDaniels personally working out a lot of the offensive players who ended up being Patriot draft picks from 2006-2008. You can try to blame Belichick as ultimately responsible, but he relies on the information of his staff including his coordinators, and I don't understand why you're trying SO hard to absolve McDaniels of any blame, especially when Holley specifically calls him out. Read the book or do more research before you respond and stick in that you don't know for sure again.