Patriots ask for permission to speak with Josh McDaniels

[DropKickFlutie]

You are insinuating McDaniels wouldn't be capable to adapt our offense with the arrival of Gronkowski and Hernandez, which, as history shows, is not true.

Yes. Look at his track record. The tight ends completely disappear in McDaniels' offenses historically, with the Pats, Broncos, and Rams. Even though he had a stud in Steven Jackson, the Rams never became a running focused team to take pressure off Bradford (even before team injuries after week 8). The Broncos would never have turned around their 1-4 start this year with McDaniels, because John Fox went to a radical mostly-run offense that McDaniels has never done.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Note: Here are the offensive players the Pats drafted from 2005 -2008 where McDaniels ran the offense:

2005
Mankins 1st round
Kazcur 3rd round
Cassel 7th
Stokes 7th
2006
Maroney 1st
Jackson 2nd
Dave Thomas 3rd
Garett Mills 4th
O;Callahan 5th
Stevenson 6th
2007
Oldenberg 5th
Hillard 6th
2008
O'Connell 3rd

Isn't it interesting that after 2006, a draft full of offensive busts that McDaniels worked out, Belichick then goes the trading route in 2007 for Welker and Moss bypassing the draft evaluators? Then stays away from offensive players in 2008 too, although he did again buy into the bad info from McDaniels who worked out O'Connell. Based on these drafts, it's clear Belichick only trusted Scar's input on linemen after a few years, and mistakenly trusted McDaniels' QB judgement on O'Connell.

Note: Here is an article that summarizes just some (it doesn't include the Maroney trade and others) of the moves McDaniels made in Denver. Are you going to again completely absolve him of any responsibility and blame Brian Xanders, who everyone knew wasn't calling the shots?

http://www.espnflorida.com/broncos-will-feel-the-effects-of-mcdaniels-for-years/


[edit - I saw your reply below but I responded to it already in this post. Meanwhile, you continue to make unfounded claims backed by what you supposedly "heard" about a book that you never actually read].

 

[Rob0729]

I don't care enough about this to correct your ignorant statements based on not doing any reading or research, but I distinctly remember media articles about McDaniels personally working out a lot of the offensive players who ended up being Patriot draft picks from 2006-2008. You can try to blame Belichick as ultimately responsible, but he relies on the information of his staff including his coordinators, and I don't understand why you're trying SO hard to absolve McDaniels of any blame, especially when Holley specifically calls him out. Read the book or do more research before you respond and stick in that you don't know for sure again.

I.E. You have no proof and instead admitting it, you will attack me personally. You are clearly ignorant of the facts because in 2007 and 2008, the Pats only drafted low round draft picks on offense other than Kevin O'Connell and some of the offensive draft picks actually worked out pretty good even if they went to other teams to do it. Here is the list again:

2006
Maroney 1st
Jackson 2nd
Dave Thomas 3rd
Garrett Mills 4th
O;Callaghan 5th
Stevenson 6th

2007
Oldenberg 5th
Hillard 6th

2008
O'Connell 3rd

Holley blamed him for Maroney, nothing else. I know enough about the book to know about it.

Dave Thomas was a very good pick up who the Pats stupidily let go only for him to be a significant piece of the Saints' Super Bowl season. If he was a McDaniels' pick, good scouting on his part.

Garrett Mills was another guy the Pats loved (Belichick brought him back this year) who they tried to sneak through waivers and Minnesota stole him.

O'Callaghan andperformed very well based on his draft position.

 

[Rob0729]

Isn't it interesting that after 2006, a draft full of offensive busts that McDaniels worked out, Belichick then goes the trading route in 2007 for Welker and Moss bypassing the draft evaluators? Then stays away from offensive players in 2008 too, although he did again buy into the bad info from McDaniels who worked out O'Connell.

Wow! That is spin. Apparently the fact that guys like Bruschi, Harrison, Seau, McGinest, etc. on defense were all old and on their last legs and/or released from the team had nothing to do with the defensive focus in 2007 and 2008. And having Welker and Moss in 2008 and an entire o-line signed and under 30 played no influence in drafting defensively that year.

If it wasn't for McDaniels' crappy analysis which according to you Belichick couldn't just ignore if he didn't value, the Pats would have continued to draft for offense and have a defense worse than the last two year with a bunch of undrafred free agents starting at virtually every position.

Based on Belichick's history on WRs before and after McDaniels tells me that Jackson may be his short comings. McDaniels was not the OC or in the draft room when Belichick drafted Bethel Johnson, Brandon Tate, or Taylor Price. Also, Belichick's draft history with TEs has been up and down. Ben Watson wasn't worth a first round. Holloway and Love were awful. Belichick has whiffed on plenty of offensive talent before McDaniels and after.

 

[RodThePat]

Yes. Look at his track record. The tight ends completely disappear in McDaniels' offenses historically, with the Pats, Broncos, and Rams. Even though he had a stud in Steven Jackson, the Rams never became a running focused team to take pressure off Bradford (even before team injuries after week 8). The Broncos would never have turned around their 1-4 start this year with McDaniels, because John Fox went to a radical mostly-run offense that McDaniels has never done.

Remind me again when has McDaniels coached a team with TE's as talented as Hernandez and Gronkowski. That's like saying Bill O'Brien historically underutilizes wide receivers in his offenses.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Belichick has whiffed on plenty of offensive talent before McDaniels and after.

Nobody is perfect, every single team whiffs on draft picks, that doesn't prove your mission to absolve McDaniels of any involvement. It's still a BIG coincidence, one you can't explain without a boatload of excuses, why the Patriot drafts were good before 2006 and after 2008, coinciding with McDaniels not being part of the draft evaluation process, and also a huge coincidence that after the poor 2006-2008 Patriot drafts, the Broncos and Rams subsequently had some of the worst seasons in their franchises with McDaniels there.

.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes. Look at his track record. The tight ends completely disappear in McDaniels' offenses historically, with the Pats, Broncos, and Rams. Even though he had a stud in Steven Jackson, the Rams never became a running focused team to take pressure off Bradford (even before team injuries after week 8). The Broncos would never have turned around their 1-4 start this year with McDaniels, because John Fox went to a radical mostly-run offense that McDaniels has never done.

Steven Jackson was hurt a lot this year and missed one game. He rushed for 1145 yards this year and 5 TDs. He played every game last year and he rushed for 1241 yards and 6 TDs. So he rushed 96 yards and one TD less this year than last year and played one more game last year. In fact, his yards per carry went up this year to 4.4 YPC vs. 3.8 last year.

But if you want to ignore the fact, you got a good point there.

 

[Garbanza]

I'd be up for it. McDaniels gave us the best season for an offense ever, would be awesome to relive that. We have so much talent for him to work with here; Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, OchoCinco and even guys that can play offense and defense like Antwaun Molden. It would be good times again.

Sigh....this is so wrong on so many levels....

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Sam Bradford wants him back. It will be interesting who Josh chooses over-KC or going back home.

I remember an article about Bill B calling Josh after he got fired from Denver. Bill told Josh to call his parents b/c family is important.

I hope he comes here and brings Lloyd. If that happens, Chad Johnson or Branch are gone. Also helps with the development of Ryan Mallet.

Nick Casserio (sp?) beat him out in college for the QB job and London Fletcher was his teammate.

 

[Sciz]

Have received permission
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/155370324073005056

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not that it means much but the Rams beat reporter is tweeting that contrary to King's reports the Rams have neither been asked by NE for permission to speak to Josh not have they released him from his contract. They are still searching for a GM and Fisher is being a drama queen and likely trying to maximize his contract stating he will choose between the Rams and Dolphins on Monday...

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Not sure if this has already been reported - too many threads to read.

98.5 Felger & Mazz just reported that the Pats are going to meet with
McDaniels this weekend. They got the info from Burt Breer.

I would love to have McDaniels back.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Do the Jets have any interest in McD?

 

[Rob0729]

Nobody is perfect, every single team whiffs on draft picks, that doesn't prove your mission to absolve McDaniels of any involvement. It's still a BIG coincidence, one you can't explain without a boatload of excuses, why the Patriot drafts were good before 2006 and after 2008, coinciding with McDaniels not being part of the draft evaluation process, and also a huge coincidence that after the poor 2006-2008 Patriot drafts, the Broncos and Rams subsequently had some of the worst seasons in their franchises with McDaniels there.

.

LOL! It is all McDaniels' fault? Really?!?

There are many reasons. In 2006, Nick Caserio left the position in the personnel department to become the Wide Receivers' coach which he returned to the personnel department in 2009 when he took over for Pioli. Kyle O'Brien was promoted from college scout to Pro scout after the 2005 season. Other scouts got promoted to other areas or left the Patriots for better positions.

It is ridiculous to blame McDaniels for the 2006-2008 drafts. You shouldn't call anyone ignorant when you make statements like this.

 

[Tunescribe]

Do the Jets have any interest in McD?

Their fans sure do. But it would be the height of hypocrisy for the Green Beans to go after him after Wrecks and Tannenbum giving a vote of confidence to Schottenheimer.

I wonder if McDaniels could join in on the playoff run if he's a free agent and comes to terms. During the regular season his team played: Ravens, Giants, Packers, Saints, Steelers, 49ers and Bengals.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Steven Jackson was hurt a lot this year and missed one game. He rushed for 1145 yards this year and 5 TDs. He played every game last year and he rushed for 1241 yards and 6 TDs. So he rushed 96 yards and one TD less this year than last year and played one more game last year. In fact, his yards per carry went up this year to 4.4 YPC vs. 3.8 last year.

This is good info and shows the spin you had in prior comments. Somehow you use the excuse that the Rams had the league's worst offense due to injuries, however upon closer inspection most of those injuries occurred after week 8 when the Rams already had the league's worst offense and a 0-8 or 1-7 record, and now you submitted that Steven Jackson played almost every game and had a good season. So what's your next excuse for why the offense was worse than the Chiefs, Colts, and Vikings who also had terrible QB's playing and injuries? And if you bring up the lockout, rookies like Andy Dalton seemed to have no problem picking up a completely new system.

 

[Calciumee]

RapSheet just retweeted this from Breer:

RT @AlbertBreer: Patriots have received permission to speak with Rams OC Josh McDaniels, will speak with him this weekend, per a Rams source

And that according to NFL rules, they can add him to the staff for the playoffs!

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Their fans sure do. But it would be the height of hypocrisy for the Green Beans to go after him after Wrecks and Tannenbum giving a vote of confidence to Schottenheimer.

I wonder if McDaniels could join in on the playoff run if he's a free agent and comes to terms. Did the Rams play any of our potential opponents?

I don't think that's possible. Think it's against NFL rules.

 

[Rob0729]

Nobody is perfect, every single team whiffs on draft picks, that doesn't prove your mission to absolve McDaniels of any involvement. It's still a BIG coincidence, one you can't explain without a boatload of excuses, why the Patriot drafts were good before 2006 and after 2008, coinciding with McDaniels not being part of the draft evaluation process, and also a huge coincidence that after the poor 2006-2008 Patriot drafts, the Broncos and Rams subsequently had some of the worst seasons in their franchises with McDaniels there.

.

Yes, it is a huge coincidence that the Pats whiffed on a lot of defensive draft picks when McDaniels became Offensive Coordinator. Isn't it also a huge coincidence that Pats' secondary has been so bad since Bill O'Brien was named OC too?

If McDaniels was so influencial on the Pats poor drafts, why is Belichick looking at bringing him back? Doesn't make sense huh? Maybe Belichick thinks he has been too successful in the drafts in recent years and he wants to have someone making poor selections.

BTW, by my count, Belichick has drafted 8 WRs with or without McDaniels. Only two worked out (Branch and Givens) with one being fairly successful as a special teamer and defensive back (Slater) of the five who were busts, only one was drafted between 2006-2008.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Do the Jets have any interest in McD?

Can't imagine he'd have much interest in going there. I know an argument could be made for it, but I'm guessing he'd be more interested in going to a place were the pieces are their for him to succeed. A mediocre OL, mediocre QB who seems to lack a high football IQ, mediocre run game, relatively thin WR corp with some questionable work ethics, and a pretty sub par pair of TEs is not a recipe for success, especially for a guy that likes to run a complicated offense revolving around players being able to take on multiple roles.