OT: The excuse making for Marvin Lewis by the media is comical

[TommyD4207]

Adam Jones has had a grand total of 2 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in 6 years with the team. I don't think he was costing them the game prior to Porter being on the field.

Burfict, like I said, has been a staple of their physicality and toughness. One can argue that they wouldn't even have been in the game had it not been for their physical defense.

I agree with you that Lewis shares some blame, but I just think we're laying it on a bit thick here.

I didn't say Pacman, although he was sort of veering off the road there. I don't know that he should have been flagged on the Joey Porter thing, except that he DID make contact with an official. That tends to draw a flag. He didn't do anything sit-worthy.

I didn't think Pacman was out of control, I was speaking about Burfict specifically, who clearly was. Sit him for a series, and let him chill the **** out.

Not pulling Burfict at any point, is solely on Marvin Lewis, and probably cost them the game.

That's on him, and deserves to be fired for it, when you consider his entire body of work.

 

[BTTA]

From Wikipedia:
The theory describes Type A individuals as ambitious, rigidly organized, highly status-conscious, sensitive, impatient, take on more than they can handle, want other people to get to the point, anxious, proactive, and concerned with time management. People with Type A personalities are often high-achieving "workaholics", push themselves with deadlines, and hate both delays and ambivalence.[4]

No doubt, you've got some of the upside characteristics that you cite here, and it has served you well.

The absolute certainty that runs throughout your posts is, however, very specific evidence of what others are telling you is the downside of that personality type. Your first response is to argue and position yourself as right and others as wrong. Those who put a real value on self awareness will respond with curiosity and appreciation for a different viewpoint. So in your protests, you demonstrate what you are denying.

Every personality type is a mixture of helpful and unhelpful characteristics. And yes, I am a professional in this field.

I find the "type A/B etc." personality system to be very mediocre, FWIW. If you want to enhance the self awareness that you say you value, the the MBTI and StrengthsFinders systems are much more accurate and useful. Social Styles is an OK entree into this, as well.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Guess you know more than the shrinks that created the classification. You're the best. Do you fall in love every time you pass a mirror because of your splendor and humility?

It may be an old coot, geezer thing. When my youngest granddaughter is around, I walk up to a mirror in front of her and say, "What makes me so sweet & pretty?" She has a meltdown. "Boys aren't pretty!" etc.

 

[BTTA]

One of the great unspeakables in all this, to me, is the issue of culture and race. As a white guy in his 50's, I'm unable to fully understand the dynamics that black coaches have with black players around discipline, outspokenness, and similar, and it leaves me curious. I have to think that it is more complex, particularly regarding issues of "crime and punishment" that is so much about marketing to a fanbase with demographics more like me than like the players.

Or perhaps it is trivial or irrelevant.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Right, because pale white caucasian Rex Ryan is the epitome of player discipline

 

[Rob0729]

They "played like crap because of it?" Up until the last real play, they played a very good game, having held the explosive Steelers offense to only ONE touchdown, and a total of 15 points.

Their offense was effective enough to be leading up until that point with a shoddy backup named AJ McCarron. I don't think that should be considered playing like crap.



Why would Lewis have benched his pro bowl LB and the guy who had 115 tackles a season or two ago? Wasn't he one of the leaders in tackles throughout the entire NFL that year? No one on the team had a higher tackle average per game this year, either. Burfict may be a jerk, especially vs. Pittsburgh, but their defense depends on him, and is a better unit (usually) with him on the field.

There is obviously a fine line between playing physical, aggressive, stifling defense, and making a late hit or two in a game which involved rival teams making physical threats to each other earlier in the year.

While it's great to see Belichick have more power and control over his team, we can't compare all 31 other teams to the awesome situation in Foxborough over the last 15 yrs. Even here, we've certainly seen some guys like Meriweather and Spikes do some stupid stuff at times.

Basically, it comes down to one stupid play anyway, since the Porter/Jones situation should've offset. I agree with you about the weakness with Lewis here, but you should be fair and also give him credit for calling/planning a good game, particularly with his franchise QB on the sidelines.

Belichick benched Welker for a quarter because of foot comments. He would have no problem benching Burfict.

 

[JMC00]

****head breer making a fool of himself (like usual) saying it's all Mike Brown's fault. Because these are the players Lewis is given.

Although I tuned out after that because that ******* shaughnessy is on too.

breer and shaughnessy on at the same time is as bad as volin and tanguay on the same time

 

[chumpchange]

How many more one and dones does Marvin get before he gets canned?

Years and years of them, hopefully! Bengals, sign that beast to an even longer term contract!

 

[supafly]

Belichick benched Welker for a quarter because of foot comments. He would have no problem benching Burfict.

That isn't true, Rob. Belichick benched Welker for the first series, not "a quarter."

Pats' Welker benched for start of playoff game

Again...I'm not sure why we'd even begin to compare a run of the mill/average HC like Lewis to the greatest HC of all time? Instead, Lewis should be compared to guys like Tomlin (who has continously looked the other way with guys like Porter, Harrison, Mitchell, etc, and who attempted trip Jacoby Jones himself), or Tom Coughlin (who had no problem with the behavior of OBJ earlier vs. Carolina). Rex Ryan is another one, as is Pete Carroll, who has allowed his defense to get a bit too physical with some costly penalties.

You could compare ANY coach to Bill Belichick and find plenty of faults. That isn't exactly news. There have been plenty of dirty players in the NFL over the years, and most of the time the coach isn't the one who is directly blamed. I don't remember hearing stuff about guys like Lester Hayes or Jack Lambert, or even Rodney Harrison for that matter. No one goes after whoever happens to be coaching Suh at the time of his infractions, or guys like Bernard Pollard.

I'm not excusing Lewis, b/c he should be held accountable. I'm just saying that some here are laying it on a bit thick...I highly doubt that Lewis told Burfict to ruin their season on a late hit, and up until Sat. night Adam Jones had 2 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in SIX years at Cincinnati.

 

[meatface]

One of the great unspeakables in all this, to me, is the issue of culture and race. As a white guy in his 50's, I'm unable to fully understand the dynamics that black coaches have with black players around discipline, outspokenness, and similar, and it leaves me curious. I have to think that it is more complex, particularly regarding issues of "crime and punishment" that is so much about marketing to a fanbase with demographics more like me than like the players.

Or perhaps it is trivial or irrelevant.

Why do you have to make it weird man? Pete Carroll is a players coach and he is the whitest dude.

 

[supafly]

One of the great unspeakables in all this, to me, is the issue of culture and race. As a white guy in his 50's, I'm unable to fully understand the dynamics that black coaches have with black players around discipline, outspokenness, and similar, and it leaves me curious. I have to think that it is more complex, particularly regarding issues of "crime and punishment" that is so much about marketing to a fanbase with demographics more like me than like the players.

Or perhaps it is trivial or irrelevant.

I wouldn't believe that it would have anything at all to do with it, as we've seen very quiet, conservative coaches like Todd Bowles who are black, and we've seen very excitable and constantly upbeat "player's coaches" like Rex Ryan and Pete Carroll who are white. They simply take different approaches to their coaching style, that's all.

Some are attempting to have a stronger rapport with their players, while allowing them to police themselves in the locker room and on the field, while others depend on a stricter coaching style which serves them well. My opinion would be that age/race are factors that are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[1960Pats]

The Steelers went up 15-0 when they finally scored their touchdown, so they should've just kicked the XP to make it 16-0. Instead, he tried to make it a 17-0 game and failed, so it stayed at 15.

That would've not only forced CIN to need 2 touchdowns, but they'd have needed to score the 2 point conversion both times just to TIE the game.

Tomlin has been doing this dumb stuff all year, although he's been relatively lucky nonetheless. I believe they're 7/11 on two point attempts, but the ones he's missed put them in jeopardy. They could've easily lost to STL for the exact same mistake. Eventually, this may bite him in the ass.

The same type of situation occurred during the 2003 Pats SB when Carolina decided to go for two twice and failed. Vinatieri's game winning FG with seconds left might have been a lot tougher if the Pats were behind instead of tied.

 

[BTTA]

Why do you have to make it weird man? Pete Carroll is a players coach and he is the whitest dude.

I'm not making it weird, I'm just verbalizing something that is ever-present in every organization in the United States, 24/7, and acknowledging that I don't (and can't) have full understanding of it, and thereby inviting others who know more than I do and have different life experiences to provide information.

And I guarantee you that while Carroll may be a "players coach" there are aspects of racial dynamics that he's clueless about and that are part of the fabric of the Seahawks everyday life.

 

[Rob0729]

That isn't true, Rob. Belichick benched Welker for the first series, not "a quarter."

Pats' Welker benched for start of playoff game

Again...I'm not sure why we'd even begin to compare a run of the mill/average HC like Lewis to the greatest HC of all time? Instead, Lewis should be compared to guys like Tomlin (who has continously looked the other way with guys like Porter, Harrison, Mitchell, etc, and who attempted trip Jacoby Jones himself), or Tom Coughlin (who had no problem with the behavior of OBJ earlier vs. Carolina). Rex Ryan is another one, as is Pete Carroll, who has allowed his defense to get a bit too physical with some costly penalties.

You could compare ANY coach to Bill Belichick and find plenty of faults. That isn't exactly news. There have been plenty of dirty players in the NFL over the years, and most of the time the coach isn't the one who is directly blamed. I don't remember hearing stuff about guys like Lester Hayes or Jack Lambert, or even Rodney Harrison for that matter. No one goes after whoever happens to be coaching Suh at the time of his infractions, or guys like Bernard Pollard.

I'm not excusing Lewis, b/c he should be held accountable. I'm just saying that some here are laying it on a bit thick...I highly doubt that Lewis told Burfict to ruin their season on a late hit, and up until Sat. night Adam Jones had 2 unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in SIX years at Cincinnati.

I mispoke about Welker, but he was benched. Whether it was a series or a quarter isn't the point.

And I never said Lewis told Burfict to take a cheap shot on Brown. But many coaches would have done something to reel in his actions. They may not bench him, but they wouldn't enable them. Lewis enables bad behavior by his defensive players and that comes from inside the Bengals' lockerroom.

But your examples are not anymore valid than mine. Coughlin didn't bench Odell Beckham, but Beckham has been a model citizen and that game was the first time he ever did anything like that. Burfict was fined $50k for a cheap hit in the Ravens' game in week 17.

And comparing Lewis to Tomlin is like saying Aaron Hernandez isn't all that bad of guy because unlike Rae Carruth, the person he murdered wasn't pregnant with his child. Tomlin is worse than Lewis because we have seen that he isn't afraid to cheat himself to put players in jeopardy.

And the whole 2 unsportsman penalties isn't valid either. Pacman slammed Amarie Cooper's head into his helmet on the ground. You want to know how many yards he was penalized for that? Zero. Just because they get away with a blatant cheap shot doesn't mean you should enable it.



And Rodney never did late hits like that and for all his reputation for being a dirty player, he never lived up to that reputation while at the Patriots.

And guys before Rodney came in a different era.

 

[supafly]

I mispoke about Welker, but he was benched. Whether it was a series or a quarter isn't the point.

And I never said Lewis told Burfict to take a cheap shot on Brown. But many coaches would have done something to reel in his actions. They may not bench him, but they wouldn't enable them. Lewis enables bad behavior by his defensive players and that comes from inside the Bengals' lockerroom.

But your examples are not anymore valid than mine. Coughlin didn't bench Odell Beckham, but Beckham has been a model citizen and that game was the first time he ever did anything like that. Burfict was fined $50k for a cheap hit in the Ravens' game in week 17.

And comparing Lewis to Tomlin is like saying Aaron Hernandez isn't all that bad of guy because unlike Rae Carruth, the person he murdered wasn't pregnant with his child. Tomlin is worse than Lewis because we have seen that he isn't afraid to cheat himself to put players in jeopardy.

And the whole 2 unsportsman penalties isn't valid either. Pacman slammed Amarie Cooper's head into his helmet on the ground. You want to know how many yards he was penalized for that? Zero. Just because they get away with a blatant cheap shot doesn't mean you should enable it.



And Rodney never did late hits like that and for all his reputation for being a dirty player, he never lived up to that reputation while at the Patriots.

And guys before Rodney came in a different era.

There is a fine line between having a tough, hard-nosed, physical defense, and having 1-2 of those players getting into verbal altercations/late hits.

This point is driven home even more when you have the kind of rivalry that saw death threats and over 130,000 dollars in previous fines this year.

Again--no one is suggesting that Lewis shouldn't be held accountable, but to blame him for everything is silly. Perhaps we simply have a difference of opinions regarding this matter.

 

[Rob0729]

There is a fine line between having a tough, hard-nosed, physical defense, and having 1-2 of those players getting into verbal altercations/late hits.

This point is driven home even more when you have the kind of rivalry that saw death threats and over 130,000 dollars in previous fines this year.

Again--no one is suggesting that Lewis shouldn't be held accountable, but to blame him for everything is silly. Perhaps we simply have a difference of opinions regarding this matter.

I never said that Lewis should be blamed for everything. There is plenty of blame to go around from the players to Mike Brown who collects talented players with a lot of baggage because they come cheap because no one wants to touch them (the Bengals are my favorite to land Greg Hardy this offseason now that he shot his way out of Dallas). But Lewis has created a culture where many of the players can get away with whatever they want.

My original point is that the media wants to totally absolve Lewis of any blame.

 

[supafly]

I never said that Lewis should be blamed for everything. There is plenty of blame to go around from the players to Mike Brown who collects talented players with a lot of baggage because they come cheap because no one wants to touch them (the Bengals are my favorite to land Greg Hardy this offseason now that he shot his way out of Dallas).

Aside from taking a late round/UDFA shot at Burfict, who else is on the roster that "no one wants to touch?" They had a top 5 OL in both pass protection/rushing ability, had the #1 QB in the league in terms of rating this year, have a franchise (top 3) WR in the entire NFL with AJ Green, a good left tackle in Whitworth who took time to show class after the game, a very strong secondary, solid DL, etc.

I'm missing all of these players that no one wants to touch.

We've taken shots with players such as Spikes, Hernandez (who certainly had reasons to be leery), Dillon, and Harrison. Some have worked out, some have made Belichick look stupid. Some have fallen in the middle. That's the way it goes.

But Lewis has created a culture where many of the players can get away with whatever they want.

This was a tough, divisional game with a rival team who talked plenty of **** all year long, and blew up Bernard themselves on a borderline cheap hit. If you watch Sound FX, you'll see that's when the tide really turned and it pissed Burfict off. You'll also see coach Marvin Lewis taking the time to try and talk to him in order to calm him down. Maybe they will get rid of him? That would solve a lot, but I don't know that there's a "culture" as you say.

This culture that you speak of seems to involve one player, at least for the most part. Take that player away and you'll probably have the same amount of issues that most other NFL teams deal with.

My original point is that the media wants to totally absolve Lewis of any blame.

Well, we all know that's silly, so your point is valid. Lewis certainly deserves some of the blame, and he needs to look at addressing the issue with Vontaze Burfict, and consider moving on. That said, Lewis has also done a fine job of creating a contender which wasn't the case in Cincy a few years ago. I would say that he's made progress in terms of team building and creating a contender. Nothing comes without obstacles, and it seems as though Burfict makes the defense better as an actual player, but probably isn't worth the headaches that may come with that.

 

[Off The Grid]

I have been absolutely faithful and loyal to my wife of over 52 years (I guess that covers the last two), and have given direct financial support to siblings, in-laws, (and my children, or course) when needed and have even provided housing for my brother and his family when needed. I guess that would eliminate the first as well. Abandonment? Never. That goes contrary to being a Type A which encompasses an extreme sense of responsibility.

No, my friend, Type A means "goal oriented" and "self-driven" or even "workaholic". It is a positive thing but, admittedly, can sometimes easily be somewhat off-putting to those not Type A.

Generally speaking, Type As tend to seek out other Type As as friends. They understand each other better than those laid-back Type Bs do.

As for drawbacks, I believe that Type As are more fully aware of their own deficiencies than other Types because Type As tend to be very analytical in nature.

So, I believe they are more self-aware, and self-analytical. A proud Type A...

I think that anyone who takes a break from 3 paragraphs describing how awesome they are by announcing a "drawback" and then goes on to describe their "drawback" in terms of telling you more about how awesome they are deserves a thousand Bed Bugs ~ Type "A" Personality Bed Bugs, of course.

They understand you better.

 

[Joker]

I'm a Type O...Negative