OT: Shaun Philips to be released today

[Ring 6]

I'd argue that Andre Carter is evidence of the opposite: that barring a career-altering injury, sometimes a down year in a bad situation is just a down year in a bad situation, and that older pass rushers can frequently lose perceived value faster than they lose actual value. Belichick showed that, if used correctly, Carter still had a lot in the tank at age 33, and Phillips is 33 now.

I do think that Denver overused him last year, and Tennessee tried to this year. He's not an every-down DE anymore. But I'm sure that a team that already has 2 good DEs and just wants to get a strong rotation going would be happy to have him. Look at Seattle; they lost Clemons in FA, and responded by having Michael Bennett play a lot more snaps, which has just made him worse since he no longer has the advantage of being fresh all the time. Without even touching on Red Bryant leaving in FA and Mebane being out for the year (since they play a different position anyway), Seattle's been sorely missing a rotational pass rusher to mix with Bennett all year. Having a surplus of edge rushers also lets you design exotic packages where you have one of your DEs rushing from the interior, which Seattle did a lot with Bennett last year but hasn't really been able to do this year.

Kinda similar to what we saw last year, when Ninkovich and Jones played 95+% of snaps at DE all year, then were gassed when the playoffs came around. You need to have 3-4 guys who can rush the passer from the edge, because it's a position that wears guys out. Both in-game and over the course of the season, having a rotation is a huge advantage. As long as someone like Phillips is only being used for 15-30 plays per game as a rotational guy, he still has value. Not commensurate with what Tennessee paid him, but that's their problem.

Great example of why we should sign him.

 

[shmessy]

Why wouldn't we want him?
Ayers, a LB is our starting DE and a rookie 6th round pick who has played less than 100 snaps all year is his backup.

Rob Ninkovich says hello?

I haven't seen much of a problem on D the past several weeks (even against deadly offenses like Denver and Indianapolis).

Why would the Patriots want to mess with the team chemistry on defense at this point?

Bringing in Shaun Phillips might be nice, but who do you cut? This D is getting better every week.

 

[Ring 6]

Rob Ninkovich says hello?

What does that mean? You know there are 2 DEs on the field right?

I haven't seen much of a problem on D the past several weeks (even against deadly offenses like Denver and Indianapolis).

That doesnt mean we don;t need depth.

Why would the Patriots want to mess with the team chemistry on defense at this point?

How does the chemistry get 'messed with' by adding a better backup than Zach Moore?

Bringing in Shaun Phillips might be nice, but who do you cut? This D is getting better every week.

Anyone who contributes less than the #3 DE.

 

[shmessy]

What does that mean? You know there are 2 DEs on the field right?


That doesnt mean we don;t need depth.


How does the chemistry get 'messed with' by adding a better backup than Zach Moore?


Anyone who contributes less than the #3 DE.

You want to cut Zach Moore?

Looks to me that Belichick and Patricia think alot of him. He was getting a good amount of playing time even when Chandler Jones was active. Has been getting some excellent rushes on QB's and has been impressive against the run.

Why risk cutting him for a 33 and 1/2 year old DE who was just cut by another team?

If this D ain't broke, why try to fix it? Plus, Moore is considered a good project for the future.

 

[obgod3]

Sd has a lot of injuries right now, I can see him back there, after he clears waivers.

 

[Ring 6]

You want to cut Zach Moore?

You will have to show me where I said that.

Looks to me that Belichick and Patricia think alot of him. He was getting a good amount of playing time even when Chandler Jones was active.

No he wasn't. He was only active for 3 of the 7 games Jones played.


H

as been getting some excellent rushes on QB's and has been impressive against the run.

Come on. He barely plays and has not done much of anything when he does. He was a healthy scratch vs Denver. Moore has been credited with 0 tackles 4 assists and .5 sack all season.
He has played 74 snaps all season, mostly in garbage time.

Why risk cutting him for a 33 and 1/2 year old DE who was just cut by another team?

To improve the team. As I said we can cut someone else also. Devey, Tavon Wilson, Butler, Bolden and many others who contribute less come to mind.

If this D ain't broke, why try to fix it? Plus, Moore is considered a good project for the future.

By that logic we didn't need Ayers, Casillas, Branch.
Are you telling me that you are happy being one injury away from a rookie 6th round pick who has played 74 snaps all year starting on a SB contending team? Or even that he is the first guy off the bench?
DE depth is a HUGE weakness on this team.

 

[supafly]

I think Belichick and Phillips must have had a secret understanding that if/when he'd be cut, Belichick would control the minds of all other 31 teams by having them hold off on waiver claims, and he'd eventually end up here.

Signed, Ed Bouchette--Post Gazette sportswriter

 

[obgod3]

And the answer is to sign SP? No not a good idea.

 

[shmessy]

You will have to show me where I said that.


No he wasn't. He was only active for 3 of the 7 games Jones played.


H
Come on. He barely plays and has not done much of anything when he does. He was a healthy scratch vs Denver. Moore has been credited with 0 tackles 4 assists and .5 sack all season.
He has played 74 snaps all season, mostly in garbage time.


To improve the team. As I said we can cut someone else also. Devey, Tavon Wilson, Butler, Bolden and many others who contribute less come to mind.


By that logic we didn't need Ayers, Casillas, Branch.
Are you telling me that you are happy being one injury away from a rookie 6th round pick who has played 74 snaps all year starting on a SB contending team? Or even that he is the first guy off the bench?
DE depth is a HUGE weakness on this team.

I'm sorry, Andy. I just think if something ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

This D is a freight train gaining speed right now. Bringing in a 33 and 1/2 year old guy who was just cut by the Tennessee Titans seems like a very risky proposition. Ayers/Casillas/Branch were all brought in within 3 weeks of Chandler Jones and Jerod Mayo going down to injury. Thye plugged those holes and the last 3 games have been dominant against 2 excellent offenses and one lousy one.

 

[50-yard-line]

If Jones or Easley had to go to IR, I'd grab Philips in a heartbeat, if available.

Otherwise, not so sure. If the price is right and they consider him an upgrade, they'll do it. but I wouldn't cut Moore or Buchanon to get a two-month Philips rental.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sorry, Andy. I just think if something ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

Interesting approach. Personally I think DE depth IS broken.
Seems your plan would mean we just ignore depth. Glad BB disagrees and he got Ayers, Casillas, and Branch.

This D is a freight train gaining speed right now. Bringing in a 33 and 1/2 year old guy who was just cut by the Tennessee Titans seems like a very risky proposition. Ayers/Casillas/Branch were all brought in within 3 weeks of Chandler Jones and Jerod Mayo going down to injury. Thye plugged those holes and the last 3 games have been dominant against 2 excellent offenses and one lousy one.

How is it a risk to improve depth? Those players would have been signed without injuries because they are good players who help us.
Again, I'll disagree with "Yay we are winning, lets stand pat and not improve depth in case of injuries"
To me the risk is what happens if any of HT, Nink, collins or Ayers is injured.

 

[Ring 6]

If Jones or Easley had to go to IR, I'd grab Philips in a heartbeat, if available.

Otherwise, not so sure. If the price is right and they consider him an upgrade, they'll do it. but I wouldn't cut Moore or Buchanon to get a two-month Philips rental.

Buchanan is already on IR. You can cut any number of other guys if you love Moore.
I do not want to get to a SB, have an injury and have no pass rush. This guy can rush the passer better than all but maybe 1 or 2 guys we have on the field today.

 

[luuked]

Doesn't hurt to bring him in and take a look..

worst case we have a cheap rental that gives depth..

best case, he contributes and gets us another compensatory pick when he moves on In FA..

 

[shmessy]

Interesting approach. Personally I think DE depth IS broken.
Seems your plan would mean we just ignore depth. Glad BB disagrees and he got Ayers, Casillas, and Branch.


How is it a risk to improve depth? Those players would have been signed without injuries because they are good players who help us.
Again, I'll disagree with "Yay we are winning, lets stand pat and not improve depth in case of injuries"
To me the risk is what happens if any of HT, Nink, collins or Ayers is injured.

"How is it a risk to improve depth?"

Answer: Because if you bring in the 33 and 1/2 year old who was just cut by the Titans, you have to cut someone from the current team. A team whose defense this month has stymied Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck and didn't allow an 8-2 team to get to double digits points on Sunday.

Who would you cut?

 

[Deus Irae]

They already brought in Ayers, so there's no place for Phillips unless there's an injury we don't know about

 

[Ring 6]

"How is it a risk to improve depth?"

Answer: Because if you bring in the 33 and 1/2 year old who was just cut by the Titans, you have to cut someone from the current team. A team whose defense this month has stymied Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck and didn't allow an 8-2 team to get to double digits points on Sunday.

Who would you cut?

Once again, upgrading depth doesn't hurt the team. Moore didn't play against Denver and played mop up in the other 2, so he isn't the reason.
As I said there are many players you can cut who do not contribute as much as the #3 DE would.
You tell me, who plays DE if Ninkovich gets hurt, or Ayers? Or who steps in if HT or Collins goes down?
Depth is a huge problem on the front 7.

Again, I don't buy your argument that we played well so no one on the 53 man roster can be upgraded.
Why did we sign Blount if Gray ran for 200 yards? That wasn't broke either.

 

[Ring 6]

They already brought in Ayers, so there's no place for Phillips unless there's an injury we don't know about

1) Depth
2) The injury that hasn't happened yet

 

[shmessy]

Once again, upgrading depth doesn't hurt the team. Moore didn't play against Denver and played mop up in the other 2, so he isn't the reason.
As I said there are many players you can cut who do not contribute as much as the #3 DE would.
You tell me, who plays DE if Ninkovich gets hurt, or Ayers? Or who steps in if HT or Collins goes down?
Depth is a huge problem on the front 7.

Again, I don't buy your argument that we played well so no one on the 53 man roster can be upgraded.
Why did we sign Blount if Gray ran for 200 yards? That wasn't broke either.

I never said no one on the 53.

No one on defense.

I'm actually more worried about our offense. Even though everything is hunky dory right now, Brady really is relying on only 2 WR's - - Edelman and Lafell. if one of those goes down, it would be nice if he had another go to WR. Also, what happens if one of the starting 5 OL goes down? Cannon is ok, but after that????

I'd be happy to get a good quality OL for depth. I don't care if they cut Devey.

 

[shmessy]

1) Depth
2) The injury that hasn't happened yet

Aren't they getting a pretty damn good DE back in a few weeks?

 

[Ring 6]

I never said no one on the 53.

No one on defense.

I'm actually more worried about our offense. Even though everything is hunky dory right now, Brady really is relying on only 2 WR's - - Edelman and Lafell. if one of those goes down, it would be nice if he had another go to WR. Also, what happens if one of the starting 5 OL goes down? Cannon is ok, but after that????

I'd be happy to get a good quality OL for depth. I don't care if they cut Devey.

then why wouldn't you cut Devey to pick up a guy who would currently be one of the 2 best pass rushers on the roster?
I'm just not understanding.
Lets do it this way.
If Nink got hurt, would you rather have Shaun Phillips or Moore playing DE?