Officiating

[40yrpatsfan]

Such an awful day for officiating, and probably the worst year I can ever remember in terms of the Pats getting hosed again and again.

While more cameras and sensors could undoubtedly help, some common sense changes would help more:

- have a ref upstairs and another watching TV, who can immediately call attention to a bad or missed call, and if it's clear let them overrule without replay, no matter what it is (penalty, catch, ball placement). The NCAA has some form of that.

- this ridiculous rushing to the LOS to get off the next play on a muffed reception has to stop. Like baseball let the coach ask for a pause so the team can look at replays.

- the refs also get a lot of ball placements wrong - I must have seen 10 of those yesterday which all mattered, a yard short of the first down.

- the clock between plays causes so many delay of games - a 30 yard pass and the team has to sprint down the field or they can't get the next play off, or the ref SOMETIMES puts another 25 seconds up there - come on!

- give the refs some discretion on late hits and other personal fouls so some can be 5 or 10 yards, not always 15 yards for an accidental touch out of bounds, and really none of them should result in an automatic 1st down.

- fix what's a catch, whether in the ez or not. The rules at the front of the ez are so different than the sides or back - just insanity.

- blow the freakin whistle immediately when a runner is ganged up on by 3 or more players

The probIems are partially the officials on the field, but it's mainly the league office.

 

[venecol]

I would rather they use technology than rely on human error. Balls have chips in them. Use that tech for ball placements, 1st downs, goal lines, etc. Get rid of the damn antiquated chains. They're ridiculous. Use chainless markers w/ IR sensors. Time clocks should be calibrated w/ ball sensors for delay of game snaps. Place chips on players shoes and helmets. Remove as many decisions from the field officials as possible to speed up the game and make it more accurate.

Of course, they won't do any of that. Not when the gambling racket has an opportunity to alter decisions based on human judgement.

 

[signbabybrady]

I would rather they use technology than rely on human error. Balls have chips in them. Use that tech for ball placements, 1st downs, goal lines, etc. Get rid of the damn antiquated chains. They're ridiculous. Use chainless markers w/ IR sensors. Time clocks should be calibrated w/ ball sensors for delay of game snaps. Place chips on players shoes and helmets. Remove as many decisions from the field officials as possible to speed up the game and make it more accurate.

Of course, they won't do any of that. Not when the gambling racket has an opportunity to alter decisions based on human judgement.

They won't even spring for a standard and proper number of cameras at each game and you want all that lol.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

- have a ref upstairs and another watching TV, who can immediately call attention to a bad or missed call, and if it's clear let them overrule without replay, no matter what it is (penalty, catch, ball placement). The NCAA has some form of that.

They do. Whenever you hear a ref say "after further discussion, there is no flag on the play," it means they consulted with someone in NY who told them to pick up the flag.

 

[Nehalem]

Such an awful day for officiating, and probably the worst year I can ever remember in terms of the Pats getting hosed again and again.

While more cameras and sensors could undoubtedly help, some common sense changes would help more:

- have a ref upstairs and another watching TV, who can immediately call attention to a bad or missed call, and if it's clear let them overrule without replay, no matter what it is (penalty, catch, ball placement). The NCAA has some form of that.

- this ridiculous rushing to the LOS to get off the next play on a muffed reception has to stop. Like baseball let the coach ask for a pause so the team can look at replays.

- the refs also get a lot of ball placements wrong - I must have seen 10 of those yesterday which all mattered, a yard short of the first down.

- the clock between plays causes so many delay of games - a 30 yard pass and the team has to sprint down the field or they can't get the next play off, or the ref SOMETIMES puts another 25 seconds up there - come on!

- give the refs some discretion on late hits and other personal fouls so some can be 5 or 10 yards, not always 15 yards for an accidental touch out of bounds, and really none of them should result in an automatic 1st down.

- fix what's a catch, whether in the ez or not. The rules at the front of the ez are so different than the sides or back - just insanity.

- blow the freakin whistle immediately when a runner is ganged up on by 3 or more players

The probIems are partially the officials on the field, but it's mainly the league office.

(1) Sensors wouldn't really help. Putting sensors in the ball to track where it is useless, if you don't also cover the players in sensors to track where they are at the same time.

(2) Giving the ref discretion for personal foul penalties (ie 5/10/15 yards) is a horrible idea. You are basically giving the refs more discretion to change the game(obviously a bad idea). It might even lead to more fouls as refs might be more willing to give a 5 yard penalty for borderline cases.

(3) There is no way to fix "what's a catch". There are always going to be edge cases that will upset some people. Honestly the best example is probably the Patriots pass defense at the end of the 2011 AFCCG: If the Ravens WR holds the ball a fraction of a second longer its catch and Ravens go to the SB. But how long is long enough?

The real problem is every time there is an edge case that upsets people the completely revamp the rules and try to fix, but fail because again you can't really come up with a perfect rule. And now we have had so many different rules for what makes a catch that everyone is totally confused.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

(1) Sensors wouldn't really help. Putting sensors in the ball to track where it is useless, if you don't also cover the players in sensors to track where they are at the same time.

(2) Giving the ref discretion for personal foul penalties (ie 5/10/15 yards) is a horrible idea. You are basically giving the refs more discretion to change the game(obviously a bad idea). It might even lead to more fouls as refs might be more willing to give a 5 yard penalty for borderline cases.

(3) There is no way to fix "what's a catch". There are always going to be edge cases that will upset some people. Honestly the best example is probably the Patriots pass defense at the end of the 2011 AFCCG: If the Ravens WR holds the ball a fraction of a second longer its catch and Ravens go to the SB. But how long is long enough?

The real problem is every time there is an edge case that upsets people the completely revamp the rules and try to fix, but fail because again you can't really come up with a perfect rule. And now we have had so many different rules for what makes a catch that everyone is totally confused.

But they use your last point to give up on solving the problem - e.g. the reviewable PI was actually a step in the right direction but they abandoned it cause it wasn't perfect. Look at the NBA, a coach can challenge anything and the refs have the power to overturn anything, which BB has been asking for in the NFL.

As far as the personal fouls: again, I don't think the problem is with the officials' skills or their integrity, it's the speed of the game, so giving them more discretion is a good thing not a bad thing. Exhibit A is the out of bounds hit on Mahomes that decided Sunday's game. In that case I would assess a 5 yard penalty. A few years back they had a 5 vs 15 yard facemask penalty, which was a step in the right direction, but again they abandoned it cause it wasn't perfect.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

They do. Whenever you hear a ref say "after further discussion, there is no flag on the play," it means they consulted with someone in NY who told them to pick up the flag.

It's good when they do that, which is rare especially in an ordinary regular season game. Expand that to all games.

I still don't understand how that Raiders out of bounds catch was overruled to be a TD.

 

[Triumph]

A TD catch should be the exact same as a rushing TD.

The ball crosses the plane of the goal line with possession and 2 feet down = TD, THE END, Possession can be 1 handed catch and your 2 feet can be outside the endzone in the field of play , but if the ball breaks the plane its over. At the back and sides of the endzone, 2 feet in and down with possession constitutes a TD

If the ground cant cause a fumble then the ground cant cause and incomplete TD pass as well.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I would rather they use technology than rely on human error. Balls have chips in them. Use that tech for ball placements, 1st downs, goal lines, etc. Get rid of the damn antiquated chains. They're ridiculous. Use chainless markers w/ IR sensors. Time clocks should be calibrated w/ ball sensors for delay of game snaps. Place chips on players shoes and helmets. Remove as many decisions from the field officials as possible to speed up the game and make it more accurate.

Of course, they won't do any of that. Not when the gambling racket has an opportunity to alter decisions based on human judgement.

That would help with ball placement. Sometimes I'm amazed at how accurate a side judge can be with a placement, but often as they walk in from the side you can see how they weave a crooked line and place it a couple of feet off.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

A TD catch should be the exact same as a rushing TD.

The ball crosses the plane of the goal line with possession and 2 feet down = TD, THE END, Possession can be 1 handed catch and your 2 feet can be outside the endzone in the field of play , but if the ball breaks the plane its over. At the back and sides of the endzone, 2 feet in and down with possession constitutes a TD

If the ground cant cause a fumble then the ground cant cause and incomplete TD pass as well.

Absolutely agree.

 

[XLIX]

- have a ref upstairs and another watching TV, who can immediately call attention to a bad or missed call, and if it's clear let them overrule without replay, no matter what it is (penalty, catch, ball placement). The NCAA has some form of that.

That’s one of the reasons NCAA games can easily run upwards of 4 hours. The NFL just doesn’t want that.

- this ridiculous rushing to the LOS to get off the next play on a muffed reception has to stop. Like baseball let the coach ask for a pause so the team can look at replays.

I agree the League needs consistency on allowing/not allowing this to happen.

- the clock between plays causes so many delay of games - a 30 yard pass and the team has to sprint down the field or they can't get the next play off, or the ref SOMETIMES puts another 25 seconds up there - come on!

The play clock is 40 seconds whether you gain 5 yards or 50. I have no problem with that.

The refs will only reset it to 25 if they themselves did something to slow the game, like misspot the ball or have some sort of discussion or whatever.

- give the refs some discretion on late hits and other personal fouls so some can be 5 or 10 yards, not always 15 yards for an accidental touch out of bounds, and really none of them should result in an automatic 1st down.

No. Just no. This will cause far more problems than it solves.

- fix what's a catch, whether in the ez or not. The rules at the front of the ez are so different than the sides or back - just insanity.

No matter how the rules define “catch” you will always have plays which fall right on the line that people are going to argue about. This is a problem which cannot be fixed.

- blow the freakin whistle immediately when a runner is ganged up on by 3 or more players

They do blow the whistle when forward progress is judged to have been completely stopped, but I’ve seen players break tackles or push forward against 3 men. Let those plays continue.

 

[XLIX]

But they use your last point to give up on solving the problem - e.g. the reviewable PI was actually a step in the right direction but they abandoned it cause it wasn't perfect. Look at the NBA, a coach can challenge anything and the refs have the power to overturn anything, which BB has been asking for in the NFL.

As far as the personal fouls: again, I don't think the problem is with the officials' skills or their integrity, it's the speed of the game, so giving them more discretion is a good thing not a bad thing. Exhibit A is the out of bounds hit on Mahomes that decided Sunday's game. In that case I would assess a 5 yard penalty. A few years back they had a 5 vs 15 yard facemask penalty, which was a step in the right direction, but again they abandoned it cause it wasn't perfect.

Why would you give a 5 yards penalty on the Mahomes play? It was a textbook late hit out of bounds. There was nothing subtle about it.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I'm not sure if the officials and the teams have access to a "live" feed of the games. anyone who has ever sat in the stadium where you can see a TV knows that the games are broadcasted with a delay, you can pretty much watch the action on the field and then look up and watch it "live" on the TV. I think it's like a 7 second delay.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Why would you give a 5 yards penalty on the Mahomes play? It was a textbook late hit out of bounds. There was nothing subtle about it.

Should have been offsetting penalties on that play since Brown was choking a Bengal.

 

[1960Pats]

A TD catch should be the exact same as a rushing TD.

The ball crosses the plane of the goal line with possession and 2 feet down = TD, THE END, Possession can be 1 handed catch and your 2 feet can be outside the endzone in the field of play , but if the ball breaks the plane its over. At the back and sides of the endzone, 2 feet in and down with possession constitutes a TD

If the ground cant cause a fumble then the ground cant cause and incomplete TD pass as well.

I wonder why they didn't do that.
It's like the league is being run by ex-Jets.

 

[Triumph]

I wonder why they didn't do that.
It's like the league is being run by ex-Jets.

Quite frankly it should be the same for sidelines as well.

Falling to the ground with possession is a completion or INT.

 

[crawhammer]

The officiating in the AFCCG was a travesty. That crew should be suspended pending investigation. I'm not taking everything away from the Chiefs, or absolving the Bengals of their mistakes, but the Chiefs don't win that game without help from the refs.

 

[reesebobby]

Remember when the refs wanted Tom to win the Super Bowl? I bet you guys were less outraged.

 

[AQPE]

Removal of all involvement of the NFL HQ personnel would be a solid start.

 

[Thelonious]

It is ridiculous and has been for a long time that a multi-billion dollar business would use a bunch of fat dentists and stock brokers - amateurs all - in so critical a role. The games are not "rigged" - a ridiculous asssertion - but the reffing in general and certainly this past weekend has been lousy for a while. I would support a full-time, dedicated staff, carefully trained and regularly retrained - supported by whatever technology is fast, reliable, and feasible. To me that's the obvious solution to an obvious problem.