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Ochocinco only in on 18 plays

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by fumbrunner, Sep 13, 2011.

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  1. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

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    What is the prevailing thought on Chad Ochocinco going forward? He played in only 18 plays and with the pats playing so much 2TE, how much are we going to see of him gong forward?

    At least he enjoyed watching, according to his twitter:
    Hope he comes around, but looks like he is still learning the ropes.
  2. brady199

    brady199 Rookie

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    Looks like we'll be OK without him, esp if Taylor Price can come back and contribute. He's not a dumb person, (he does plenty of dumb things thou) so I'm not sure why it's taking so long. Randy came in and didn't play at all in the preseason and caught on right away. Maybe Ocho's role is more complex and Randy just mostly went deep. Also Hernadez and Gronk both came in as rookies and picked it up right away, I don't know that their positions are any more or less difficult then what is being asked of Chad.
  3. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    Brady said that Moss was the smartest WR he'd ever played with, plus Moss didn't run very many routes.
  4. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    I really think people need to stop obsessing on Chad Ocho.

    The offense was a runaway train last night - there are only so many balls to catch - and clearly Brady was finding excellent match-ups the whole game.

    If we get to the midseason and we have games where the offense is getting shutdown and Ocho is providing zero outlet for Brady then i'll reconsider his worth to the team.

    At this time he is the #3 WR on a team that heavily features 2 TE's, effectively making him a #5 WR.

    As a side note he was also the victim of one of the most obvious PI's i've seen in a long time around the goalline area and got no flag.
  5. Timbo717

    Timbo717 Rookie

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    I think he'll play more than he did last night but obviously I don't think he'll be a 80+ catch guy for the year. I can't remember where I heard it but someone brought up a decent point that they were in a hurry up offense a decent amount of time last night to try and get the defense tired (it worked apparently), and in those cases you really need your experienced guys who know the system well and don't have to be told in the huddle what the plan is.

    Not sure how much merit there is to that argument, but I guess it is something to think about and I can certainly understand that point of view. Either way, I think with the multiple TE sets like you mention, that we'll see some of Chad but not s much as he is used to. And I think he'll be ok with it to be honest.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  6. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    Agree, but it's not going to happen. Because of who he is, media and fans will focus on playing time and productivity and start speculating on when he tears down the team if he isn't a big enough part of the offense. Which also isn't going to happen; BB will handle things as he always does, in house, if it comes to that.

    I had the exact same thought about it not mattering a whole lot because of the other weapons on this team. Opening night brings about that type of realization; for all the frustration I had with seeing guys like Price and Vereen out, I come away thinking last night, well, I guess it doesn't really matter.
  7. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    BJGE played only 22 snaps.

    A lot of it was the no-huddle and having guys who could line up in many different positions on the field, guys who know pass route trees from many different snap alignments.

    Ocho isn't there yet.

    He will have more snaps in a more conventional game plan.
  8. PatsDeb

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    I think it was designed that Ocho Cinco would not have a big role in this game. It was probably loud, and it was definitely hot, and the game plan was obviously to go with the no huddle and move the ball quickly for as long as possible to take advantage of the conditions. A new guy just isn't going to be able to contribute fully to that. I could see Brady a couple of times doing quick hand signals to Branch WAY down at the end of the line and Branch just as quickly giving a little nod. Deion and Welker know Brady and know what he means in such a situation. They threw the ball to Ocho a couple of times (either to get him a few touches or to keep the D honest) and that was the plan.

    Before everyone writes off this relationship, let's see what happens in a home game where the O is going at a more normal pace and Ocho has a few more games to adapt to the offense.
  9. in 12 we trust

    in 12 we trust Rookie

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    maybe he should change his name to Ochojuegos 8 plays !

    if he doesn't learn the offense, thats all he see a game !
  10. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #95 Jersey

    Still learning..no worries at all
  11. Gwedd

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    No Jersey Selected

    Jeebus. Some people get upset over the weirdest things.

    The Patriots play situational football. They put in players and packages and plays based upon their opponent's historical tendencies, and what's happening on the field. So 85 didn't play much? Big deal. The team was focused on the two TE plays, because that was working.

    Chad will get his chance against other opponents, on other days. He'll get used and in a way that benefits the team. It's never about one player, or someone's stats, or who gets the most snaps. It's about the team and playing the best player for THAT game and for THAT play, etc.

    And yeah, 85 got mugged in plain sight and not a yellow flag was thrown. I was angry at that too. It seemed like the refs were trying to slow down the Patriots because Miami was struggling. I thought that that sort of thing only happened when New England played the Jets and Colts. :cool:
  12. The Scrizz

    The Scrizz Rookie

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    All we've heard all pre-season is about learning the route tree.

    Randy Moss: "I don't need no f'in route tree."
  13. The Scrizz

    The Scrizz Rookie

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    First Monday night game after the lockout, gotta keep the locals interested.
  14. Patsrock

    Patsrock Rookie

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    All them had OTA's had the playbook from April on. Ocho got them just over a month ago
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We've talked about this for months. In a game plan where we run a lot 2 TE sets (and some 3 TE sets), The 3rd WR position doesn't have a central role. We want to have our TE's involved! I would note that out 2010 #3 WR averaged 1.5 catches per game. Tate had 24 catches, Edelman (our #4) had 7 and we had a GREAT passing year.

    It's fine to hope that Price or Ocho, or Price and Ocho together will get 60 or 70 catches. That's not happening. It is very unlikely that they will total anywhere near that many barring injuries.

    I'm fine with our top 5 receivers being Welker, Branch, Hernandez, Gronkowski and Woodhead, as was the case in 2010. And yes, we our #6 and #7 receivers will be our #3 WR and our starting RB. So we need Ocho to play his part, as Edelman did, as Slater did.
  16. Gwedd

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    No Jersey Selected


    Like we say in the entertainment industry, "There are no small parts, only small actors". Everyone's role is important, even if it's only to stand and wait. Teams STILL have to prepare to face 85, even if he isn't used and that takes away time that they might be using to plan on something else. Anything that gives you an edge, you take, even if it's to have a talented receiver like Chad in for only a few plays a game as a decoy. It keeps the other team honest.
  17. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog Rookie

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    Home field favoritism, conscious or not, is pandemic... :cool:
  18. Reckedtrek

    Reckedtrek Rookie

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    Apparently Randy didn't need no F'n lease in New England last year, either with the punk ***** attitude he was showing after week 1.
  19. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I'm not concerned about Ocho in the slightest. When his number is called he'll step up. People were crying to high heaven for Brady to go back to throwing to the open receiver rather than trying to force the ball downfield into coverage. Yesterday and with some precision Brady threw to the open receiver.

    The mere threat of Ocho's reputation was good enough for me yesterday. Running the fast paced Oregon type offense killed the Dolphins Defense... murdered it in fact. It was a great game plan executed with precision.
  20. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    People are right that there is no reason to worry about him atm. The offense still looks good.

    I don't think the he's still learning excuse is valid. Just go out and execute what he does know and the rest will come with time.
  21. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I've been doubtful of the role Ochocinco could play from the start, so my expectations for him are actually on the low side - but for this game it's understandable he'd not be part of the play calling.

    Brady's going to go to tried and true receiving options in that situation - which is what he did as noted by the stats - and that approach was custom made for the gameplanning and situation that Belichick faced in Miami.

    It worked. Well. And I think Ochocinco's on board with the fact that some games will play out that way. I think he "gets it" and you won't hear him complain about touches, which is good

    But I alsp expect we will see a game or two in which the gameplan requires him to take a more prominent role - and at that time we'll see what he has and judge him on that

    But for this game, for this gameplanning situation - it's understandable Ochocinco wouldn't be a featured player.

    What was actually of interest to me is that they specifically sent many players deep and threw a good number of bombs - and pretty much everyone stepped up to the plate on the field in terms of being a deep threat.

    Hernandez himself might wind up being the defacto deep receiver even if Ochocinco doesn't pan out - and that alone is going to drive defenses bonkers if you're sending a guy like Hernandez 20 - 30 yards deep quite often.

    So overall I'm really impressed by both the playcalling, as well as the strategic use of players, along with some twists thrown in to make defensive coordinators cry.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  22. MoLewisrocks

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    I hope he gets it. And not just the playbook. The consistent demand for intensity and focus. That illegal formation penalty that negated someone elses excellent execution was inexcusable for a guy in the league ten years. That's a mental error, the kind of thing that drives BB and his QB batschit... I think Chad didn't expect it would be nearly as complex an endeavor to fit in here because he's used to his combination of talent and charm greasing the skids... Talent takes a back seat here unless it's otherworldly as in Moss '07. Beyond that it's consistency and execution and selflessness that matters here.

    The Gronkowski's are going to be playing big WR's on the scout team this week to get the DB's ready for SD. Maybe Ocho should lobby Bill for a role on the scout team...
  23. GrogansArmy

    GrogansArmy Rookie

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    This is going to sound dumb, but I know BB loves Chad, I know Chad has the same love for BB, so until I see BB get down on Chad, I am not worried at all about 85. I think Chad is changed, he just wants to be with a winning team and to be able to help however he can and be a part of the end result. Whether thats as a decoy or a blocker, or the main receiver, I feel he just has a lot of respect for BB and TB and the Pats in general and will help any way he can even if it means he cannot be the star.

    Remember, Chad was there when Corey Dillon was there, and I'm sure Corey talked to Chad about how different it was here. That said, I'm sure Chad knows he's just another cog in the wheel. If he screws up, he's gone, he has to know that.

    And, if you think about it, he's totally turned around his image in the past 2 months. He's now quiet, even his tweets are tame now. I think he's become a convert and truly believes in this system and knows that if he ***** up here... its over for him. Randy on the other hand thought he was bigger than the team, and unfortunately for him he realized too late that its not so, and regrets it to this day.
  24. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    I can bet on that penalty for illegal formation, all he was thinking about was the play call. He was like, what the heck was I supposed to here? He never saw the TE.
  25. goheels22002

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    #50 Jersey

    Chad Diez y Ocho will get his chances. He did not distinguish himself against Miami. One nice catch and one sophomoric penalty.

    Last night it looked like the underneath and seam routes were the big options and the out routes weren't. Teams will adjust giving Brady more outside looks and Branch and Ocho become the main event.
  26. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat Rookie

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    Due to the abbreviated off season, a lot of bad teams may look good and a lot of good teams may look bad during the first month of the season. The same concept will apply to individual players. (Such as 8-5) It is the finished product that we need to be concerned with.
  27. Fahrenhype

    Fahrenhype Rookie

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    This keeps getting overlooked. There is also the fact that this isn't the 2007 season. Brady isn't going to throw 23 TD passes to one guy. It is more likely there will be three players with 10+ TD's. I'll bag on Ocho if/when he muffs a catch that has a very direct and adverse outcome on a game. Maybe he ends up being this year's Donte Stallworth and his contributions are minor compared to what a few of the other offensive weapons achieve. Either way, the offense should be the least of anyone's concerns for this team.
  28. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    In a game plan set for a focus on 2 TE sets to mismatch w/ their lower quality 3&4 CBs & Safeties and with a top tier cb matched against him when he is on the field; I don't think I have too much of a problem.

    I don't know at this point how much this game was 'he hasnt learned the playbook yet; and how much was just game planning. I think it is more game planning.

    Looking at it another way; he was targeted on 2 of 18 or 12% of the plays he was game designed to be on the field. If we have 70 offensive plays routinely and he is a regular #2 receiver (in on about 50-60 of them); then he should be getting targeted 7.2 times a game. If he catches 75% then we are talking 5.4 catches a game.

    I don't know about you; but with the number of weapons Brady has if Chad is right now on track to have 5 catches a game; I am happy.
  29. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    That's fine and all, and I do agree with everything that you said.

    The "problem" (if there is one), is that he is making 6 million +, and is the highest paid receiver on the team...in a role where he is currently the 5th receiving option at best:

    1.Welker
    2.Hernandez
    3.Branch
    4.Gronkowski
    5.Price/Slater/Edelman/Ochocinco

    If the media and fan image of him is going to be continued to be questioned, as he will be called out for not knowing the offense etc (already happened today with Bruschi) + he won't even have the chance to see many reps, then I think a storm may be a brewin'....now the situation becomes totally different, now the team is paying him major money to not just be a decoy/role player vs certain teams, now they are actually paying him major money to be a pain in the @ss..

    My personal belief is that he will be used when needed, in certain roles vs certain teams. We can all guess as to what team(s) that will be ;)

    Regardless, I still personally believe that he is a much too expensive option for his particular role, and it did not take a genius to realize that he would not be used too much (unless they cut Branch in TC, which I actually thought may have been the plan at one point).

    It will be a worthwhile topic to keep an eye on, that's for sure.
  30. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    That's a good point Gumby, but do we have any reason to believe that he may actually be in on 50-60 plays out of 70?

    If that's the plan, then fine--and that is one of the reasons his signing made me wonder if cutting Branch in training camp was a possibility. But when Branch was kept I started to wonder just how he would get enough reps with a 2TE heavy offense.

    I just can't see Ochocinco in on 50-60 out of 70 possible plays, unless maybe Branch ends up hurt, which is certainly a possibility. Otherwise, I think that Chad will simply be used as a role player of sorts for specific game planning vs specific teams.

    I am sure there's some kind of plan in place, as Belichick is far from stupid, so all of this talk of how he'll be used is probably pointless in the big picture. He'll probably get some specific targets vs certain teams in gameplanning situations, and some more looks in possible injury situations too, but at the end of the day I can't see how he will be used all that much, or have too much productivity overall.

    There's also the question of how the 'other' WR's will/can develop now too, such as Edelman and Price--who we all would like to see more of in certain situations.

    It's a high-brow problem, or whatever they say. In other words, it's a nice issue to have, but the only thing I question is that high salary of his. It just doesn't seem like a good monetary move for him to be the highest paid WR on the team. Just my opinion though.
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