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NFL Films: Brady 21st All Time Best Player


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I don't remember Brady ever throwing a pick in a superbowl.

It was in 38, IIRC in the end zone.

(EDIT: Yup, end zone:

" The Patriots responded on their ensuing possession by driving all the way to Carolina's 9-yard line, but the drive ended when Panthers defensive back Reggie Howard intercepted a third down pass from Brady in the end zone."

Super Bowl XXXVIII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pretty amazing to have only one pick in all those throws.)
 
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I am now told that there could also be as many as three pre-Super-Bowl era quarterbacks on the list, meaning Brady could rank as low as number 10 on the all-time quarterback list.
 
Am I allowed to hate Jeter just because he gave Jessica Alba herpes? :(

Fun story about Jeter. On AFN they often have celebrities/athletes do short clips to thank the troops. Often it's "hey, I just want to thank you for all you do, I hope you can come back home soon/safe". The other day I see Jeter's.
He says "Hey, I'd like to thank all the troops for their support..."
Really? Wow. I don't recall supporting him or the Yankees.
Jeter is a douche.

Lots of stats

Isn't Manning 9-9 in the post season? Also:

Consider that he’s New England’s only offensive player to be named to the Pro Bowl since 2001
That can't be correct is it?? Wasn't Welker named just last year but couldn't go because he was injured? And how could he be the only one named in 2007??
I'm checking this...

Pro Bowlers
2009:
QB Tom Brady
G Logan Mankins
SS Brandon Meriweather
WR Randy Moss
WR Wes Welker
DT Vince Wilfork
2008:
K Stephen Gostkowski
WR Wes Welker
2007:
QB Tom Brady
C Dan Koppen
T Matt Light
G Logan Mankins
WR Randy Moss
CB Asante Samuel
LB Mike Vrabel
DT Vince Wilfork
2006:
T Matt Light
DT Richard Seymour
2005:
QB Tom Brady
DT Richard Seymour
2004:
QB Tom Brady
LB Tedy Bruschi
RB Corey Dillon
SpT Larry Izzo
DT Richard Seymour
K Adam Vinatieri
2003:
CB Ty Law
LB Willie McGinest
DT Richard Seymour
2002:
SpT Larry Izzo
CB Ty Law
SS Lawyer Milloy
DT Richard Seymour
K Adam Vinatieri
C Damien Woody
2001:
QB Tom Brady
WR Troy Brown
CB Ty Law
SS Lawyer Milloy

I don't can't seem to find a place that says who was "chosen" and who was an "injury replacement" but 2007 says Brady and Moss pulled out due to "injury" though none of the other offensive players have a similar comment. Either way, I'm calling shenanigans on the comment!!
 
Brady is a top 10 guy. The only QB higher should be Montana, and thats because Brady aint done yet.

Jeter ? the story goes that he signed a friend's Red Sox hat "Yankees Suck" on the condition that he never show it to anyone .... The friend said "I can't make you that promise" and Jeter signed it anyway.

he is pretty much MLBs equivalent of Brady, and a great choice to VO his top 100 video.
 
I am now told that there could also be as many as three pre-Super-Bowl era quarterbacks on the list, meaning Brady could rank as low as number 10 on the all-time quarterback list.


Here are the top 10 QBs in the important categories:

Winning % regular season with 100+ wins
Tom Brady 101-31 .765
Joe Montana 117-47 .713
Peyton Manning 135-63 .682
Terry Bradshaw 107-51 .677
Johnny Unitas 118-64-4 .645
John Elway 148-82-1 .643
Brett Favre 183-107 .631
Jim Kelly 101-59 .631
Dan Marino 147-93 .613
Fran Tarkenton 124-109-6 .531

Playoff wins (and %)
Joe Montata 16-7 .696
Tom Brady 14-4 .778
Terry Bradshaw 14-5 .737
John Elway 14-7 .667
Brett Favre 13-11 .542
Troy Aikmen 11-4 .733
Roger Staubach 11-6 ..647
Bart Star 9-1 .900
Kurt Warner 9-4 .692
Donovan McNabb 9-7 .563

Number of Super Bowls and record
John Elway 2-3
Joe Montana 4-0
Terry Bradshaw 4-0
Tom Brady 3-1
Roger Staubach 2-2
Jim Kelly 0-4
Troy Aikmen 3-0
Bob Griese 2-1
Kurt Warner 1-2
Fran Tarkenton 0-3


So no one has a better regular season win %.
No one with 10+ post season wins has a better win %.
He is 2 post season wins away from being tied for #1.
Only 5 other QBs have been in as many Super Bowls as him, and only 2 have 1 more win.

Is he the GOAT yet? No. Is he #10???? No.
 
Did anyone else try the voting when it was open? I did and it was tedious, to say the least. It was a long series of "which player is better?" votes. I tried it three times, for up to an hour (while watching TV with the wife) and saw Brady once. After one long session I somehow had voted Forrest Gregg as the best player ever. Huh? I don't know how much fan votes counted but I found the experience frustrating.
I did not vote for this one because I noticed the voting was in the same ridiculous format that their all-time-draft one was done in. My results for that one were a joke, even after voting at least 50 times.

If the online voting is all that matters, no sample size will correct how dumb the system is.
 
Well Marino and Elway came in behind Brady, at 25th and 23rd respectively.

So far, Montana, Favre, Unitas, Manning as well as pre-SB-era quarterbacks Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh are notably absent.

Brady indeed appears destined to finish around #7 among QB's on this list.

Incidentally, according to this list, the NFL's all-time leading rusher Emmitt Smith ranks #28.
 
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Just saw this. The most notable thing to me was that sandwiched between 25 (Marino) and 23 (Elway) was John Hannah! Good to see.

I mostly ignore the "this list is nonsense" comments because there is no possible list of top 100 players ever they could ever draw up which would not be vehemently disputed by half their audience. It's too difficult to compare across eras. And most people today haven't seen enough of the oldtimers, and noone really has a historical perspective on those still active or recently retired. This is partly illustrated by the "fan rank" next to each player on the list on NFL network site. Brady #20. Elway #8. Marino #7. Hannah none. :bricks:

NFL.com | NFL Top 100 | Tracker
 
Ok., maybe that it is just to early in the morning, but I am looking at the list and it has Raymond Berry listed with the position "E". What the hell is E?
 
This stuff just drives me nuts. How anyone with any historical perspective can rank Manning or Favre ahead of Brady baffles me to no end. The only Qbs who are in the conversation with Brady are Montana, Unitas, and Otto Graham. Only they have consistently put up great numbers while delivering multiple championships.

On this very show, they ranked Troy Aikman ahead of Steve Young. Even though Young threw more Tds, fewer Ints, and had a career passer rating a preposterous 15 points higher, Young only has one championship to Aikman's three. So Aikman's better. If it's so simple there, than why not now?

Statistically, what separates Manning and Brady? In passer rating, Manning is 95.5 to Brady's 93.5. That's two measly points. Even though Manning has had infinitely superior talent for all but two of Brady's seasons. Even though Manning plays in a dome, in a warm weather division, while Brady's left out in the elements. Just two points. Heck, in the most critical statistic, TD to INT ratio, Brady's superior. But that's to be expected. After all, Brady's ratio is the best ever of any QB with 3500 or more pass attempts.

Manning wouldn't even have a championship if his team hadn't carried him through the worst post-season of any SB winner ever. Seriously. Only Namath and Bradshaw have ever won a championship with a worse passer rating in a Superbowl run, and Manning threw more interceptions than both of them combined. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are truer champions than he is.

Nothing mystifies me quite like the media's obsession with manufacturing a legacy for Peyton. His only truly unique achievement is his four MVP awards, and three of those are a sham. In 2003, Priest Holmes set a new rushing touchdown record, went for over 2000 yards from scrimmage, and his Chiefs finished with a 13-3 record, the second best record in the league behind Brady's Patriots. In 2008 and 2009, Philip Rivers and Drew Brees each threw more tds, fewer ints, had a passer rating roughly 10 points higher, and defeated Manning in the post-season. For three of his four MVPs, Manning wasn't even close to the best player in the league.

That being said, Manning obviously deserved his MVP in 2004. His NFL record 49 Tds was a remarkable achievement. Too bad Brady topped it three years later the very moment he got a comparable receiving core.

People seem to forget how unprecedented Brady's production is. No multiple SB winner has ever lead the league in touchdowns more times than Brady. He's also the only multiple SB winner to lead the league in passing yards multiple times. Simply put, no multiple SB winner has ever been relied upon to generate as much offense as Brady.

Brady has the greatest winning percentage of all time. He's never played a losing season. He's the fastest player to 100 wins. His 10-0 post-season winning streak through 2001-2005 is the greatest of all time. His 21 game win streak from 2003-2004 is the greatest of all time. Manning's 23 game regular season win streak politely ignores an 0-1 post-season performance. Brady's the only quarterback to lead his team to a 16-0 season. Manning's Colts had a similar opportunity, but cowardly threw away a chance at history for fear of excess pressure. Brady's a multiple SB MVP, and he's been forced to make plays in the 4th quarter of four different SBs. If not for a miraculous offensive drive by the Giants in 2007, he would have succeeded all four times. The only time Manning ever trailed in a Super Bowl's fourth quarter, he threw a pick that was returned for a touchdown, killing any chance his team had at glory.

With time, the allure of Manning's alleged statistical dominance will fade. Even now, Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers sport superior career Passer Ratings. But Brady's singular achievements will be puzzled over and marvelled at for decades to come. In the end, I suppose it's obvious why most seem to prefer Manning: he's hasn't crushed people's hopes and dreams quite like Brady has.
 
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This stuff just drives me nuts. How anyone with any historical perspective can rank Manning or Favre ahead of Brady baffles me to no end. The only Qbs who are in the conversation with Brady are Montana, Unitas, and Otto Graham. Only they have consistently put up great numbers while delivering multiple championships.

...

With time, the allure of Manning's alleged statistical dominance will fade. Even now, Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers sport superior career Passer Ratings. But Brady's singular achievements will be puzzled over and marvelled at for decades to come. In the end, I suppose it's obvious why most seem to prefer Manning: he's hasn't crushed people's hopes and dreams quite like Brady has.

:yeahthat:

Now there's a first post worth saving up for ....
 
Manning wouldn't even have a championship if his team hadn't carried him through the worst post-season of any SB winner ever.

That 2nd half of the championship game makes up for it, Manning was amazing
 
. Even though Manning plays in a dome, in a warm weather division, while Brady's left out in the elements. Just two points. Heck, in the most critical statistic, TD to INT ratio, Brady's superior. But that's to be expected. After all, Brady's ratio is the best ever of any QB with 3500 or more pass attempts.

This is the point that gets overlooked most often. The other is the absolute cupcake division the Colts play in.
 
Where's Michael Bishop ranked on the list? :D

Uncle Rico is ranked higher than him. Both the fictional character and member here at patsfans ;)
 
Not to be picky, but Manning has two Super Bowl TDs. One to Garcon in SB 44 and one to Wayne in SB 41.

Three if you count the one to Tracy Porter (someone had to say it) :D
 
This stuff just drives me nuts. How anyone with any historical perspective can rank Manning or Favre ahead of Brady baffles me to no end. The only Qbs who are in the conversation with Brady are Montana, Unitas, and Otto Graham. Only they have consistently put up great numbers while delivering multiple championships.

On this very show, they ranked Troy Aikman ahead of Steve Young. Even though Young threw more Tds, fewer Ints, and had a career passer rating a preposterous 15 points higher, Young only has one championship to Aikman's three. So Aikman's better. If it's so simple there, than why not now?

Statistically, what separates Manning and Brady? In passer rating, Manning is 95.5 to Brady's 93.5. That's two measly points. Even though Manning has had infinitely superior talent for all but two of Brady's seasons. Even though Manning plays in a dome, in a warm weather division, while Brady's left out in the elements. Just two points. Heck, in the most critical statistic, TD to INT ratio, Brady's superior. But that's to be expected. After all, Brady's ratio is the best ever of any QB with 3500 or more pass attempts.

Manning wouldn't even have a championship if his team hadn't carried him through the worst post-season of any SB winner ever. Seriously. Only Namath and Bradshaw have ever won a championship with a worse passer rating in a Superbowl run, and Manning threw more interceptions than both of them combined. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are truer champions than he is.

Nothing mystifies me quite like the media's obsession with manufacturing a legacy for Peyton. His only truly unique achievement is his four MVP awards, and three of those are a sham. In 2003, Priest Holmes set a new rushing touchdown record, went for over 2000 yards from scrimmage, and his Chiefs finished with a 13-3 record, the second best record in the league behind Brady's Patriots. In 2008 and 2009, Philip Rivers and Drew Brees each threw more tds, fewer ints, had a passer rating roughly 10 points higher, and defeated Manning in the post-season. For three of his four MVPs, Manning wasn't even close to the best player in the league.

That being said, Manning obviously deserved his MVP in 2004. His NFL record 49 Tds was a remarkable achievement. Too bad Brady topped it three years later the very moment he got a comparable receiving core.

People seem to forget how unprecedented Brady's production is. No multiple SB winner has ever lead the league in touchdowns more times than Brady. He's also the only multiple SB winner to lead the league in passing yards multiple times. Simply put, no multiple SB winner has ever been relied upon to generate as much offense as Brady.

Brady has the greatest winning percentage of all time. He's never played a losing season. He's the fastest player to 100 wins. His 10-0 post-season winning streak through 2001-2005 is the greatest of all time. His 21 game win streak from 2003-2004 is the greatest of all time. Manning's 23 game regular season win streak politely ignores an 0-1 post-season performance. Brady's the only quarterback to lead his team to a 16-0 season. Manning's Colts had a similar opportunity, but cowardly threw away a chance at history for fear of excess pressure. Brady's a multiple SB MVP, and he's been forced to make plays in the 4th quarter of four different SBs. If not for a miraculous offensive drive by the Giants in 2007, he would have succeeded all four times. The only time Manning ever trailed in a Super Bowl's fourth quarter, he threw a pick that was returned for a touchdown, killing any chance his team had at glory.

With time, the allure of Manning's alleged statistical dominance will fade. Even now, Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers sport superior career Passer Ratings. But Brady's singular achievements will be puzzled over and marvelled at for decades to come. In the end, I suppose it's obvious why most seem to prefer Manning: he's hasn't crushed people's hopes and dreams quite like Brady has.

Amazing first post, I'm in awe (and quite jealous)
 
I am now told that there could also be as many as three pre-Super-Bowl era quarterbacks on the list, meaning Brady could rank as low as number 10 on the all-time quarterback list.

I'm figuring there will be 2, Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh.

These lists will always drive everyone crazy, but we all love them just the same. It's just impossible to make rational comparison between eras, too many variables to consider. Sammy Baugh was dominant in his time, but the football itself back then was radically different from what it is today, or even what it was in the 50's and 60's. If just that were different, would he have been as dominant?

We need to face up to the fact that the Pats dynasty will never receive the accolades from the wider NFL fan/media community that has been heaped on every other team with similar success. It didn't happen at the time and it won't happen going forward post-Sygate. Belichick and Brady will get to the Hall of Fame but that's likely to be it, in my opinion (the only other one I think could get in is Ty Law, but that's probably going to be really borderline), and I think even with Belichick when his time comes you'll hear stories of voters not voting for him on "principle." I'll always look, for example, at Bruschi in the same way that Steelers fans probably look at Jack Ham, a vital cog and playmaker extraordinaire, but Tedy won't be going into the Hall. Meanwhile guys like Peyton and Tomlinson will waltz in with (I hope) one Lombardi trophy collectively in total.
 
Lots of great points in this thread.

I believe Manning, while certainly one of the all-time greats, is definitely the beneficiary of anti-Patriots sentiment in the media and around the country.

Brady would be the greatest quarterback of his generation, but if one despises the Patriots, one cannot support Brady. An alternative is a necessity -- hence the support for Manning, the anti-Brady.

I also agree that hindsight will benefit Brady's ranking. Once Belichick and Brady have stepped away from the game, and all the anti-Patriots rancor has diminished, I believe Brady will be acknowleged as one of the top two or three quarterbacks of all time.

ETA: To be quite candid, Brady's diminished ranking is really a byproduct of the media's contempt for Belichick, who refuses to genuflect before them. In a fit of pique, they have elevated Manning to near godhood to diminish Brady and somehow repay Belichick, IMHO.
 
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