NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[OhExaulted1]

The truly sad thing to all of this is it actually stems from referee officials not doing there job properly on Oct. 16th, 2014:
Why Are Some Deflategate Text Messages Being Completely Ignored? | Larry Brown Sports

"I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs [expletive] us...a few of then were at almost 16" -Jastremski Oct 17th, 2014


Then for all you Kraft bashers guess what? The NFLPA and there representation "bent over" to allow a sociopathic megalomaniac to have his Article 46 powers when they caved signing the new CBA knowing that the "New Sherriff in Town" would ultimately abuse his powers. For all your whining about Kraft, what about De Smith and Eric Winson? Where's there culpability in all this mess? They buckled on that point for a few dollars more.

Throw your darts at Kraft all you want. He deserves the critisism. Just remember there's a lot more blame that should be spread around.

Just ask a Saints fan.

 

[VectorPrime]

Man, can you imagine how Brady must be feeling right now? We know how huge of a toll the whole scandal and trial took on him last year in both his personal and professional life. But then he came out of it clear, it was over he could move on. He was out, HE HAD WON. Now? It's literally all coming back. The "facts" surrounding the original accusations are back in discussion. A district judge literally accused him of cheating. And it looks like that after all of the sh.it he went through he's going to end up suspended again. He must be absolutely beside himself right now. It's all happening again!

I have no doubt at all that if things had just stayed resolved he would never have brought any of it back up. He would never have considered filing any defamation lawsuit or going on the offensive himself. Sorry to PatFanKen but he had moved on and was ready to never speak of it again if he could. But now, if he's suspended AGAIN I wonder if it pushes him over the edge and he goes for broke. Why not right?

 

[Gronkowski123]

Man, can you imagine how Brady must be feeling right now? We know how huge of a toll the whole scandal and trial took on him last year in both his personal and professional life. But then he came out of it clear, it was over he could move on. He was out, HE HAD WON. Now? It's literally all coming back. The "facts" surrounding the original accusations are back in discussion. A district judge literally accused him of cheating. And it looks like that after all of the sh.it he went through he's going to end up suspended again. He must be absolutely beside himself right now. It's all happening again!

I have no doubt at all that if things had just stayed resolved he would never have brought any of it back up. He would never have considered filing any defamation lawsuit or going on the offensive himself. Sorry to PatFanKen but he had moved on and was ready to never speak of it again if he could. But now, if he's suspended AGAIN I wonder if it pushes him over the edge and he goes for broke. Why not right?

what if tom takes the position that he'd rather retire before accepting this ridiculous suspension?

dont know why tom showed up at that ridiculous SB ceremony. **** this corrupt league...

 

[cmasspatsfan]

what if tom takes the position that he'd rather retire before accepting this ridiculous suspension?

dont know why tom showed up at that ridiculous SB ceremony. **** this corrupt league...

He won't. he loves playing and will just do what he has to and move on, he's very zen, he knows the truth and can live with himself. He's been called an odd duck by teammates, I think this stuff bothers most of us more than it bothers him.

 

[supafly]

dont know why tom showed up at that ridiculous SB ceremony. **** this corrupt league...

Because he earned it with 3 super bowl MVP performances, and was part of a historical lineup with all of the other MVPs from the past games.

I don't think that had anything at all to do with "sticking it to Goodell." As a matter of fact, I think that Goodell would've gotten the better of Tom, had Brady decided to stay home. There's absolutely no reason to go into hiding, and Brady did not do any favors for the NFL by showing up. Why would they care one way or the other? The bad publicity would've been on him.

 

[ViperGTS]

He won't. he loves playing and will just do what he has to and move on, he's very zen, he knows the truth and can live with himself. He's been called an odd duck by teammates, I think this stuff bothers most of us more than it bothers him.

I think that zen sh*t is a wee bit overblown. I refer to interviews Gisele did that insinuated that things weren't easy. Nor would I expect them to be. At some point alpha dogs (which he is) need to bite back. The perfect timing was the Super Bowl. He has the rings and now the NFL is still most likely gonna hit him with a 4 game ban. Playing for your teammates on the field is one thing, to le t the NFL use you is another entirely.

Also that zen thing gets thrown off when you can't do normal things for months. By that I mean any kind of interview, social interaction outside of required interviews. Nothing. Now that this has reared its ugly head for now by morons (thank you Chin), it's back to square one. All you hear in soundbites is what Chin said and that's the travesty of the whole thing.

 

[supafly]

I think that zen sh*t is a wee bit overblown. I refer to interviews Gisele did that insinuated that things weren't easy. Nor would I expect them to be. At some point alpha dogs (which he is) need to bite back. The perfect timing was the Super Bowl. He has the rings and now the NFL is still most likely gonna hit him with a 4 game ban. Playing for your teammates on the field is one thing, to le t the NFL use you is another entirely.

Also that zen thing gets thrown off when you can't do normal things for months. By that I mean any kind of interview, social interaction outside of required interviews. Nothing. Now that this has reared its ugly head for now by morons (thank you Chin), it's back to square one. All you hear in soundbites is what Chin said and that's the travesty of the whole thing.

I think that Tom was affected very negatively and deeply. He does a good job at keeping things at bay, but he's also very proud.

 

[VectorPrime]

I think that Tom was affected very negatively and deeply. He does a good job at keeping things at bay, but he's also very proud.

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he was extremely angry with Kessler with how things went down.

 

[Big Bucks]

see fathers feelings and actions. Probably 10% how Brady feels

 

[supafly]

Maybe this can help Brady in an attempt to get an appeal to this appeal if things go south?

McCann doesn't think his chances are too good of winning an appeal, although he does mention the possibility and potential argument of postponing the suspension until that supposedly futile appeal is heard.

Michael McCann on OM&F: ‘I was awestruck’ by judge’s comment about ‘overwhelming evidence’ against Tom Brady

 

[supafly]

if it comes down to parker, then we're doomed.
i thought chin was the potential swing vote but he's leaning towards the league.

i hate this ****...

Yeah, isn't Parker the one who totally disagrees with the union's stance altogether? I thought I just read that in McCann's article.

 

[supafly]

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if he was extremely angry with Kessler with how things went down.

I don't know if Brady would necessarily be pissed at Kessler personally, because I'd find it hard to blame him. Even when he went off the rails a bit he was still fighting hard.

I'm actually just starting to wonder if the fix is in on this one, as crazy as that sounds. I don't know what to believe anymore. Nothing went our way the entire time, and supposedly Berman made the ruling ironclad, yet here we are witnessing 2/3 judges making very bold and biased claims.

 

[stcjones]

Based on chin's comments it will come down to Parker.

And this is why "chin" should excuse himself from the case ....because he ALREADY has a biased stance on the issues ......they should remove him and bring in another unbiased judge with no agenda. Secondly if Brady loses (which would be incredulous in our legal system....his team will APPEAL anyways....right?

 

[archstanton543]

The NFLPA and there representation "bent over" to allow a sociopathic megalomaniac to have his Article 46 powers when they caved signing the new CBA knowing that the "New Sherriff in Town" would ultimately abuse his powers.

Um, Article 46 has been a part of the NFL for a while. The thing is, other commissioners didn't use it like Goodell is using it. It's supposed to be for punishments for conduct not covered specifically by other language in the CBA.

 

[bishbash]

Apologies if this Sally Jenkins article has been mentioned, but I feel it almost needs its own thread. It's that good. Highly recommend clicking and reading entire article.

In DeflateGate, who is the real cheater, Tom Brady or Roger Goodell?

"On Thursday, the second-highest court in the land was to hear oral arguments on whether it should affirm or reverse, on narrow procedural grounds, District Judge Richard Berman’s decision to throw out Goodell’s four-game suspension of Brady. But a little-noticed and powerfully written third-party brief by renowned legal scholar Robert Blecker lays out a third option for the court to consider. Blecker argues that the court should find Goodell’s arbitration process was “infected with bias, evident partiality, unfairness and fraud,” and he doesn’t stop there.

He makes the delightfully explosive suggestion that the appellate court could remand the case to Berman and order the NFL to share its investigative files — which were withheld from Brady’s team during the hearing process, denying him the basic fairness of knowing what the supposed evidence against him was. There are major questions as to whether the league guided the so-called independent investigation and whether Goodell was truly an honest, unbiased arbiter."

 

[grux]

There is a very good chance that I am done with the NFL if Brady is suspended. I just read an article that the NFL's lawyers lied in court at the appeal. It is to bad because I have followed and supported my favorite team for 25 years. The NFL is corrupt and Kraft had a chance to stand up to them and backed down. Now there is a chance Brady is suspended along with the lost draft picks. Goodell is in way over his head and is ruining what was once a great product. The owners should be embarrassed that one of the biggest news headlines the past two off seasons is about deflated footballs.

 

[varjao]

I can't stomach another appeal, I want this to be over, **** that, if they revert Bermans decision it is what it is, I hope Brady is already working on the backstages for a walkout, that would make everyone pissed at Goodell for this ****, owners, other fan bases, media etc...why a guilty guy would go that far instead of taking the 4 games?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And this is why "chin" should excuse himself from the case ....because he ALREADY has a biased stance on the issues ......they should remove him and bring in another unbiased judge with no agenda. Secondly if Brady loses (which would be incredulous in our legal system....his team will APPEAL anyways....right?

There really is no other solid recourse if he loses. Full en banc hearing before the 2d circuit and Supreme Court review will be tough to get.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Here is the big problem for Brady, I think, and this has worried me since before it went to Berman. Player contracts (http://ipmall.info/hosted_resources/SportsEntLaw_Institute/Agent Contracts Between Players & Their Agents/APPENDIX_A__player_contract_.pdf) contain the following language (emphasis is mine):



That's in the contracts so there is no way Brady can claim he's not on notice of this. If the NFL can convince the judges that ball deflation is "conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League", then the notice thing goes "poof".

Do you know offhand if Clement mentions this in his Brief? If he does, then it would explain the line of questioning by Parker and Chin.

EDIT: I think that the point made by another poster to the effect that Goodell treated this as an Equipment Violation and not as "Conduct Detrimental" was cogent.

 

[bishbash]

I just read an article that the NFL's lawyers lied in court at the appeal.

Link: NFL Lawyer Reportedly Lied To Judges About Tom Brady’s Honesty In Appeal