New Deion info from Felger (Merged: Branch and his agent plan to sue)

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

You are basically implying that Chayut is smarter than BB and he knew they would let him seek a trade...

If I were scoring this event I'd have Chayut ahead on points.

It's looking to me as though Chayut's gonna get his client out of NE and signed to a new contract with a different team and for a lot more money. Just like they wanted to have happen.

It doesn't mean the Pats can't benefit as well. I think they are going to get compensation for Deion when all is said and done too. Just not as much as they probably wanted to start.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Sorry man, this thing has become so mindnumbingly illogical and strange, I wouldn't bet on that. What you're saying makes sense on the surface, but at this point, I wouldn't put anything past this Chayut goomba.

Chayut has nothing to lose but everything to gain.

If he loses so what it's not like anyone expected him to win such a 1 sided battle. In the eyes of perspectie clients they'd probably love his resolve to fight for his client.

If he wins, he's a hero in the eyes of the players. He took on the establishement and won. He'd be able to set his price for future clients.

In either case, he's getting tons of publicity. Some good, some bad. But even the bad is worthwhile sometimes.

 

[patchick]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

So, Kessler has told us all that, if he loses his arbitrations, he'll file for damages in court. As someone else pointed out, if his grievance is arbitrable, then he has no option for court. So Kessler is as much as telling us all that he sees the possibility that his case will be kicked as a non-arbitrable grievance, and therefore his only remedy would be for monetary damages in court.

OK...but doesn't that line of reasoning mean they can only sue if the arbitrator rules that he doesn't have jurisdiction to begin with, not if he simply rules against them? When you submit a grievance to binding arbitration per an employment contract, you are acknowledging the arbitrator's right to decide. If you want to end up in the court system, you have to start out there. Or so I thought. None of this makes sense any more.

You know what really sucks? Branch, Gabriel, Brown, Jackson, Caldwell should have been one of the best groups of receivers the Patriots had ever fielded. All Deion had to do was frickin show up for work.

Can he possibly be happy that he started down this road?

 

[brady2brown]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

not too bad as franchise money isn't chump change. Even if one has to lose some short term coin to get it.

The reason Branch isn't in camp is because the Pats refused to say they won't franchise him. Chayut said early on that Branch would report as soon as the Pats promised not to franchise Branch.

I agree with you that franchise money is WAY more than Branch is worth, but that doesn't change the fact that Chayut/Branch think he is worth MORE than the average of the top 5 WRs.

Please don't twist facts into saying franchising is a VICTORY for Chayut. Unless you first change your screen name to CHAYUT'S MY UNCLE

 

[Urgent]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

An additional piece of info is that the arbiter who will be hearing the grievances is the law professor from UPenn who was going to rule in favor of Terrell Owens in the San Fran/Balt/Philly fiasco before the principals worked it out. not a good sign, but the circumstances aren't comparable.

The first grievance relates to the Patriots not accepting a 'fair and reasonable offer' in the sign & trade option with the Jets and Seahawks. Potentially debatable but difficult to win.

The second grievance (with the TO arbiter) relates to the Patriots not negotiating with Branch in good faith. Given that the Patriots made two large offers, averaging over $6mm a year, that the open market found only two teams willing to slightly exceed those offers, and that Chayut failed to offer a counter proposal to the Patriots, there is no basis to this grievance. They would have to argue that the Patriots $31mm offer was so far below market that it was in bad faith, and that the Patriots somehow prevented Chayut from making a counter offer.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Personally I think it's brilliant what the agent Chayut is doing for his client. He's forcing the Pats ( or the league to force the Pats) into trading his client before his contract runs out so that both can make more money when all is said and done.

Except that, in all likelyhood, the Patriots will file a greivance against Chayut for the same thing that chayut has accused the Pats of and that Chayut, with this stunt about supposedly trying to sue the Patriots if the binding arbitration fails, will get himself suspended by the union or possibly disbarred.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

One other point.

I highly doubt that Chayut and company truly believe that they'll win. All they want is the threat of the legal proceedings and the ugliness that such proceedings offers as a way to resolve this issue by a) forcing the Pats to make a deal to stop this mess from continuing at a time when a new season is starting b) hoping the league will step in and broker a deal to stop the bad PR such a fiasco is creating.

In the end Chayut just wants his client in another uniform and with a new deal so that they both make more money. He doesn't gave two craps about how he gets it done.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

The reason Branch isn't in camp is because the Pats refused to say they won't franchise him. Chayut said early on that Branch would report as soon as the Pats promised not to franchise Branch.

I agree with you that franchise money is WAY more than Branch is worth, but that doesn't change the fact that Chayut/Branch think he is worth MORE than the average of the top 5 WRs.

Please don't twist facts into saying franchising is a VICTORY for Chayut. Unless you first change your screen name to CHAYUT'S MY UNCLE

Don't counteroffer that debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sundayjack]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

OK...but doesn't that line of reasoning mean they can only sue if the arbitrator rules that he doesn't have jurisdiction to begin with, not if he simply rules against them? When you submit a grievance to binding arbitration per an employment contract, you are acknowledging the arbitrator's right to decide. If you want to end up in the court system, you have to start out there. Or so I thought. None of this makes sense any more.

Yeah, I think that's right. Without looking back, you must have been the one who pointed this out earlier in the thread. Credit where credit is. . . such and such.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

You're forgetting one thing. The Pats are under no obligation to trade Branch. If they simply hang onto Deion, and he sits out until week ten, he'll have lost 1 million dollars, his entire salary for the year. Then the Pats can franchise him next year, and the agent has accomplished squat. That is the most likely scenario. Is Chayut brilliant then?

Here is something I am wondering.
How are the game checks that Branch gets fined handled? Are the fines the money before the taxes or after the taxes? If Branch gets fined a game check (before taxes) then its like 66.5K per game and Branch will have to make up the difference because of the taxes.

I wonder if Miguel can shed some light on that.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

The reason Branch isn't in camp is because the Pats refused to say they won't franchise him. Chayut said early on that Branch would report as soon as the Pats promised not to franchise Branch.

I agree with you that franchise money is WAY more than Branch is worth, but that doesn't change the fact that Chayut/Branch think he is worth MORE than the average of the top 5 WRs.

Please don't twist facts into saying franchising is a VICTORY for Chayut. Unless you first change your screen name to CHAYUT'S MY UNCLE

lol.

I think they started out thinking about working the franchise angle but as soon as the Pats opened this up as they did by allowing them to seek a trade, they got greedier.

 

[brady2brown]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Never said that Branch would have negotiated.

What I am saying is that had the Pats simply remained silent and never allowed Chayit the option to seek a trade then they would never have given Chayut the option or ability to seek arbitration and/or legal recourse. The second the Pats allowed Branch to seek a trade was the second that Chayut got what he wanted.

Well, I agree with you here. The Patriots were the nice guys,trying to broker a solution when Chayut/Branch refused to negotiate, and may get screwed for it.

I am really surprised the union is supporting Branch here. Whenever players demand to be traded, the teams generally let the player's agent talk to other teams to work out a trade. That will never happen again. From now on when a player for any team demands a trade, the team will do exactly what you said the Patriots should have done. Say, "No. You cannot talk to any team. Play out your contract."

In fact, if teams were smart, they would be VERY leery about even offering an extension. If Branch wins this, as soon as a team offers an extenson, the player can demand outrageous money, and if the team doesn't agree, the player could then go to arbitration for what HE thinks is a fair price.

This grievance could be as far-reaching as the NFL going to a CAP and FA. It could change the way teams could talk to players. If offering to negotiate a contract change will result in a grievance, they what team would be crazy enough to offer to negotiate?

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Here is something I am wondering.
How are the game checks that Branch gets fined handled? Are the fines the money before the taxes or after the taxes? If Branch gets fined a game check (before taxes) then its like 66.5K per game and Branch will have to make up the difference because of the taxes.

I wonder if Miguel can shed some light on that.

Actually it could be worse than you say. I read somewhere else that the Pats are also going to go after part of Deion's original signing bonus. Considering how Deion and Chayut have acted, I hope they do.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Bob Kraft must be kicking himself in the butt for agreeing with BB and

Scott Pioli to let Jayson Chayut seek a trade to determine Deon's value.

The situation is now so hopelessly screwed up that the parties involved will

never find a solution on their own. The lawyers probably will.

A fair salary for Deon and also a fair trade package will determined by

the arbitrator and the lawyers. The Pats will be told to choose one

or the other.

Wrong. Bob Kraft doesn't get involved in the contract negotiations anymore. Kraft has said this himself.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Bob Kraft must be kicking himself in the butt for agreeing with BB and

Scott Pioli to let Jayson Chayut seek a trade to determine Deon's value.

The situation is now so hopelessly screwed up that the parties involved will

never find a solution on their own. The lawyers probably will.

A fair salary for Deon and also a fair trade package will determined by

the arbitrator and the lawyers. The Pats will be told to choose one

or the other.

This points up to what is wrong with America today.

The problem is, the lawyers now run everything. EVERYTHING!!!!

Non-elected, held responsible to no one, this is the segment of society that most bears watching.

With each passing day, it becomes more and more apparent that Shakespeare was right.

What a sad commentary on our times.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Actually it could be worse than you say. I read somewhere else that the Pats are also going to go after part of Deion's original signing bonus. Considering how Deion and Chayut have acted, I hope they do.

Looks like his signing bonus is prorated at $205K per year so that's what they could go after for this year.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Sounds like some of deals brokered for coaches like the compensation given for Parcell, Belichik, and Gruden. I agree I could see the NFL forcing a team to give such compensation, but I'm not sure under what pretenses.

As for Deion, he's looking for big money, but IF he was smart he would just play out this contract. The next year he is either a free agent or get franchised. I don't see the tragedy of being franchised because he will be guaranteed a boat laod of money(I'm not sure how much, maybe somebody could help me out, but I'm guessing 8 million plus). SO he plays that year out and is still a free agent if he doesn't get the deal he wants and is franchised again. He gets another big guaranteed paycheck. That is almost his signing bonus or guaranteed money which I can't recall is. And I'm sure the Pats will certainly not continue to keep paying this large franchise price, so he gets traded to a team that gives him his long term deal or he enters free agency with a big bank account in his prime ready to sign a huge lucrative deal.

It certainly worked for Charles Woodson and John Abraham, but I guess Deion doesn't think he'll be injury free or will enter free agency in his prime.

What's the tragedy in being franchised?

Maybe Deion wants to become this generation's Curt Flood....

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Well, I agree with you here. The Patriots were the nice guys,trying to broker a solution when Chayut/Branch refused to negotiate, and may get screwed for it.

I am really surprised the union is supporting Branch here. Whenever players demand to be traded, the teams generally let the player's agent talk to other teams to work out a trade. That will never happen again. From now on when a player for any team demands a trade, the team will do exactly what you said the Patriots should have done. Say, "No. You cannot talk to any team. Play out your contract."

Nah, teams will just ensure that very specific details are spelled out contractually as they pertain to suitable compensation/teams. Written down of course so that no agent can boast of some verbalized offering

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

Maybe Deion wants to become this generation's Curt Flood....

There may be something to that as well. Easier to be a jerk if you convince yourself that you are doing something noble.

I felt that played into the Maurice Clarett situation too. He was the recipient of all of the largesse he got from Ohio State, but then he acted like he was doing something noble by outing the abuses....after everything had already blown up in his face of course.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Re: New Deion info from Felger

They wouldn't have any options had the Pats never offered up the trade proposal in the first place.

What makes you (or them, for that matter) think they have any options now?