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Needs not addressed

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by patsfanboy, Apr 30, 2011.

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  1. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy On the Game Day Roster

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    #80 Jersey

    We still have so many areas that we need to upgrade and yet we haven't. We still need DE, OLB and interior OL. We have Devin and Bolden as starter and BJGE plus Woodhead. They were more luxury picks than need, basically we drated back-ups.

    We were 32nd Defense in the league last season for the longest time, we might have jumped a little at the end, but still as far as upgrading the needs, we simply haven't. With 4 picks left in the laster rounds, it isn't being fixed.

    They say that every year is never the same in football, i can't say that this year.
     
  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The draft had depth at 4 positions in my opinion:

    OL/RB/QB/DE

    We've hit on 3 of those 4, and obviously had a tremendous 'luxury' after going 14-2. DE/OLB was not as much of a 'need' as everyone thought, at least not in BB's mind.

    We got a monster OT, we got one of the best talent-wise QB's in the entire draft (not speaking of 'character' issues), we got a great, potential HR hitting RB + some depth at the position, and we got another potential high pick, shutdown CB. Youth, speed, talent...

    And most importantly, we are adding more picks to next yr's draft, specifically having 2 first rounders again, AND 2 second rounders...My God, what more could you want? If you just get over the fact the BB did not agree with our assessment that DE was a 'major need,' you will see the beauty of this draft so far. We had a rare luxury, got the picks back already for next year, and pretty much took ZERO RISK.

    I think it's a great draft, considering that we didn't have many needs. We will still address the front 7, whether that's through the mid to late rd picks, UFDA's, or even free agency.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  3. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    Going into a draft with the mindset to address needs rather than picking up good football players with real value is a great way to bring your team down quickly. Stop being naive.
     
  4. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Fact: Over the second half of last season, the Patriots were 3rd in points allowed.

    Fact: Over the second half of last season, the Patriots were 2nd in sacks.

    The Patriots don't need more talent in the front 7, they need more experience. Drafting players who don't fit the scheme doesn't make anybody more experienced.
     
  5. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy On the Game Day Roster

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    #80 Jersey

    I am sorry but i believe that you are the only one naive here. See a top rank player ranking and check the draft board and tell me how they are alike. It is based on need+value. There was room for improvement in both CB and RB but not enough to neglect the rest.
     
  6. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    What was 'neglected?'

    Belichick did not agree that DE and front 7 were of as much importance as you did...case closed.

    We had OL, RB, and CB addressed, and instantly gave ourselves a shot at utilizing whatever talent level that was there with Mallett at BPA,
     
  7. patsfanboy

    patsfanboy On the Game Day Roster

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    #80 Jersey

    Aside from Solder, they won't help much during this season, i can't see anyone of those draftees being more than back ups, i really can't see them play that a lot of snaps.

    As far as the front 7 goes, the only issue i have is with the OLB core, there are the weakest part in this team, and i believed that we should have fixed it before the end of the 3rd round, that was the neglect part.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  8. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Fair enough pt about the front 7, as I can certainly understand why you see neglect there. Fortunately, we do not call the shots, and BB has a much better grasp of the situations than we do. Apparently, he did not think that front 7 was a huge need, and that some depth and competition could be added later.

    Your guess on no one contributing this yr is very opinionated. You have no idea that Dowling cannot contribute as a nickel or dime, and have no idea whether or not he will shoot out of the gates in TC. Someone can certainly get hurt on top of everything. He will certainly add to special teams, IMO.

    The exact same thinking goes for Vareen. Yes, we have an underrated and very reliable back in BJGE. However, that doesn't mean that Vareen will not contribute, or even be a great change of pace back--again, we could certainly have him plugged in at a position that tends to be very injury prone.
     
  9. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    No my friend you don't have so many needs including a DE, and an interior OL. You may or may not need an OLB as you played two new ones last season and they will be better after their first years, presumeably.

    We have the following DLs: Wilfork, T Warren, G Warren, Brace, Deaderick, Wright, Pryor, Stroud, and Love, who have demonstrated some talent, and a host of other hopefuls. That is 9. The number a team usually carries is 5-7. who do you want to cut so you can draft some more in the late rounds?

    We have the following OLs: Light, Mankins, Kopen, Connelly, Volmer, Kaczur, Ohrnberger, Wendell, Levoir and Ojinaka who have started, and Solder that is 11, and a host of other hopefuls, like Manieri. The usual number to keep is 7-8. Who do you need to cut for your new OLs?

    We have 5 RBs but will probably let a couple oldsters go, and we added two more thsi dradft. The usual number to keep is 3-5.

    We had two QBs and now we have three. The usual number to keep is three.

    We have three OLBs Cunningham, Ninkovitch and TBC who have started, and a possible reserve in Fletcher. The usual number to keep is 3-4. There is one opening possibly to be filled with an unplayable rookie or a vet FA. What do you REALLY expect BB to do?

    I expect a FA OLB to be signed. :rolleyes:
     
  10. jukes

    jukes Practice Squad Player

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    I'm not exactly sold we needed another linebacker or end so high in the draft, especially with all the age we had at RB and uncertainty at OL
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  11. tricktak

    tricktak Banned

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    outside linebacker is a definate need and I see them getting one here in the 4th round. Think about it all they really have right now are Ninkovich, Cunningham, Banta-Cain and who else really. Dane Fletcher and Gary Guyton are more inside linebackers and you really can't count on Banta-Cain to be your big pass rusher nor can you trust Eric Moore to be that. They may really see defensive end as a position where they do have depth with Warren, Deaderick, Brace, Wright and Pryor. I can see them going outside linebacker early on day three but it's possible they don't adress defensive end at all with all the guys they already have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, you cannot just keep plugging 1st and 2nd year players into this D and expect a quick fix.. we have moved on from the Hank Poteat days and our backfield is as good as any in the NFL right now.

    This Team has gotten better and younger in need areas...
     
  13. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #75 Jersey

    We don't have a 4th round pick, we traded it to the Raiders. While it was a good value trade, I think we really could have used those picks. I'm still hoping Greg Romeus falls into the 5th round.
     
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    I see a couple needs to address.

    4.) DE - a big 5 technique, given how we ran out of healthy bodies at this position last season, but we have added Stroud and do get T Warren back.

    3.) WR - Down the field #2 WR that can pull a safety out of the box.

    2.) OG - unless the Patriots have a secret long term deal in place with Mankins, this is a fairly big need, especially since Neal retired. If there is no secret deal and last I checked, Mankins had not signed his franchise tag deal, then Mankins could sit out and play hard ball again next year,meaning both our 2010 starters will not be starting in 2011.

    1.) OLB. - It is on the list year after year, but BB continues to bring in jokes like Burgess instead of drafting a kid with a wart or two and coaching them up.
     
  15. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    We could probably bring back Tippett to play OLB. He looked in good shape for being out of football for so many years.
     
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    If a young Tippet were draft eligible this year, BB would have passed on him, because there is no tape showing Tippet dropping into coverage. Forget the 20 plus sacks and the stock run defense, BB wants to see coverage.

    BB has either unrealistic expectations and passes on guys that come back to haunt us,see Mathews, or BB has no belief that his vaunted coaching staff can coach up a youngster to play the position, see Woods and Crable.
     
  17. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #75 Jersey

    I agree with all of your needs and I think their are still some guys available that could fill them.

    Still some interesting guys on the board. Ian Williams, Lawrence Guy, David Carter, Jerel Powe, Anthony Gray and Cedrick Thornton. They all offer something different depending on what BB is looking for. My sleeper is Adrian Taylor out of Oklahoma as a development NT. Lacks great length for a 5 tech, but plays with great technique and has a great anchor. Take him in the 7th, put him on IR and bulk him up to play NT.

    Still quite a few guys available. I'd like a bigger, more physical WR like Terrence Tolliver, but there are still plenty of guys available. If he makes it to the 5th, Edmond Gates could be your down the field threat.

    Still some interesting guys on the board. The most interesting for me is Marcus Cannon. if he's there in the 5th/6th round I'd take a chance on the kid IR him for a year and hope he gets healthy. Im really pulling for this kid.

    I think most people on this board would love Greg Romeus. If he's there in the early 5th we have to consider him. But there are still some other decent options available. Sam Acho is still on the board, so is Pernell McPhee, Pierre Allen, Ugo Chinasa, Steven Friday or even take a chance on Herzlich.

    Still a lot of good guys on the board so we shouldn't give up yet. I just wish we had 2 or 3 more picks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  18. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    1. BB bought in Cam Jordan and Wilkerson in for visits and passed on Jordan once and Wilkerson twice. I think that tell us everything we need to know about how he views this draft class in comparison to what we already have. Excluding our first three picks, Kenrick Ellis was passed on five times by the Pats. I suspect BB is perfectly happy with just adding Ty Warren and Marcus Stroud to the D/Line.

    2. Last years DE/OLB hybrid class was a much deeper one than this years. Of all the hybrids picked, only one, Carlos Dunlap, got more sacks than Ninckovich and TBC (and Dunlap played in a 4-3). I cannot see why, this much more abbreviated class, would necessarily fair any better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  19. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I have had my fill of that misinformative and misleading "32nd completion percentage on third down", while ignoring that we were playing two rookies. a sophjomore, with the best CB on IR, and breaking in a new sophmore S.

    Now that we can see BB's thinking and the important facts, there is not as much to criticize, is there?
     
  20. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    He's not neglecting the rest. BB is not blowing smoke up everyone's ass when he says 'I do what is in the best interest of the football team'. In Belichick's mind, drafting a defensive lineman or an outside linebacker is not in the best interest of the football team. Why? No one really knows, but I can speculate: (1) not a good scheme match (2) risk in contract size (3) not good value. If BB thought Quinn was a 'cant-miss-guy' he would've tried to trade up for him - hell, maybe he did try to trade-up and no one wanted to be the Patriots' trade parter. If BB though Wilkerson or Jordan could come in to the team and have the production that matches the draft status (i.e. production = #17/#28 pick) then he would've picked him. He doesn't, and it really is that simple. BB is better than you at all things football, and yes he is wrong many times, but he will always be right more times than you will ever be.
     
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