My Observations Pre Season Game 1

[crowell33]

How do you "reverse" your recent injury history?....jeezus h christ:bricks:

Stay Healthy.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The debate about Run Defense misses something, when discussing this play or that.

The Pats did not allow 100 yards of rushing by the Jags. Anytime you hold a team below 100yds/game rushing, you have done a good job. Period. :bricks:

 

[Ring 6]

The debate about Run Defense misses something, when discussing this play or that.

The Pats did not allow 100 yards of rushing by the Jags. Anytime you hold a team below 100yds/game rushing, you have done a good job. Period. :bricks:

Well thats one way to look at it, but the fact that the pass D allowed 11 of 26 with 4 sacks and the offense held the ball long enough to hang a 47burger kind of makes me hesitant to judge the quality of run D by just the gross total of yards. I agree that if we allow less than 100 thats a good thing, but last night that had more to do with other factors than it did quality run stopping, wouldnt you agree?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

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Pats D snaps 2nd half

 

[The Scrizz]

1st and 10 and 2nd and 7 are not obvious passing downs.
Saying that they were passing downs because of the score in a preseason game is silly.
Those plays count, which is the reason the run D was bad. Bad run Ds have good plays too, but too many bad ones. This was a bad run D.
Regardless of whatever qualification you want to put on the plays, they are run defense plays, are they not.
The fact that I continue to have discussions with people about points we disagree on has nothing to do with whether or not I accept when I am wrong. I would like to see the examples you claim of you admitting you are wrong. This thread would be a good opportunity to show that, since we are now up to 5 runs out of 23 that went for over 10 yards. Are we saying allowing 10 or more yard on more than one of every 5 rushing attempts is good run D?

They had 4 runs out of 23 that went for over 10 yards. And they had 16 run plays that went for 3 yards or less. So again, in the first game of the year, the first actual live tackling they've done this season, they were dominant on over 2/3rds of their runs and crappy on about 17%.

If you think that is 'poor' run D which is what you have been claiming all along, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And you may think it's silly but I would say 99% of defenders are going to be thinking pass on 2nd and 7 when they are up 24 late in the 3rd. Good for Jacksonville, they got to practice their draw plays in a game in which they got destroyed in all facets after the 1st five minutes.

Again you're talking about a pre-season game with guys coming in and out a lot particularly in the 2nd half, you're going to have breakdowns. You see 4 bad plays in a game and call it poor. I see domination on 7 out of 9 drives and call it very good. I say Tomato you say poor.

 

[The Scrizz]

Well thats one way to look at it, but the fact that the pass D allowed 11 of 26 with 4 sacks and the offense held the ball long enough to hang a 47burger kind of makes me hesitant to judge the quality of run D by just the gross total of yards. I agree that if we allow less than 100 thats a good thing, but last night that had more to do with other factors than it did quality run stopping, wouldnt you agree?

The run D during the 33-3 stretch that put that game away. 10 carries, 20 yards (11 of which came one 1 play).

I think quality run stopping set the pass-rush up in good situations.

Drive 2 - 1st down run for 3 yards and 2 straight incompletes after Hernandez' fumble. Run D certainly did it's job. Field goal for Jags after starting on Pats 26.

Drive 3 - a 6 yard loss on a 1st down run puts the Jags in a hole and they get the sack on 3rd down.

Drive 4 - after a gain of 7 on 1st down pass, they get zero on a 2nd down run, again allowing them to get off the field on 3rd down.

Drive 5 - After a 7 yard rushing gain on 1st down, they stone them for zero yards on the next 2 rushes for another 3 and out.

Drive 6 - They start w/ a 7 yard sack on 1st down, and then hold them to a 2 yard rush on 2nd down, setting up a 3rd and 15 and allowing them to give up an underneath catch short of the first down for the 5th straight 3 and out. That was of course ruined by a penalty on the punt. They start the next series with a 1st down rush of -2 yards, again putting them in a hole that they climbed out of by converting a 3rd down pass right at the sticks. Their one bad run play during this long stretch came on the next play a 1st down run for 11 yards. The next series they again stopped them cold on 2nd and 5 for a zero yard gain, setting up another 3rd down which resulted in a holding call followed by an incompletion and a punt.

Drive 7 - 1st down is incomplete, 2nd down the run D again does the job holding them to 2 yards, and creating another 3rd and long and they get what would have been their 6th straight 3 and out if not for the penalty on the last drive.

How many times did the Pats get 6 straight 3 and outs last year? Not many I bet. And perhaps the biggest reason they were able to do so in this game? The stifling, dominant run D which left the Jags in bad 3rd down situations over and over. This is what I am judging the teams run D on for the game. Not some meaningless late yards, but the fact that they dominated for almost 3 straight quarters during which the score went from 3-0 to 9-33.

Jacksonville had 10 drives, 1 interception, 6 of them 3 and out 1 more that should have been if not for a dumb penalty by a rookie UDFA on 4th and 1.

Don't talk to me about yards. That run D was spectacular for almost the entire game.

 

[Ring 6]

The run D during the 33-3 stretch that put that game away. 10 carries, 20 yards (11 of which came one 1 play).

I think quality run stopping set the pass-rush up in good situations.

Drive 2 - 1st down run for 3 yards and 2 straight incompletes after Hernandez' fumble. Run D certainly did it's job. Field goal for Jags after starting on Pats 26.

Drive 3 - a 6 yard loss on a 1st down run puts the Jags in a hole and they get the sack on 3rd down.

Drive 4 - after a gain of 7 on 1st down pass, they get zero on a 2nd down run, again allowing them to get off the field on 3rd down.

Drive 5 - After a 7 yard rushing gain on 1st down, they stone them for zero yards on the next 2 rushes for another 3 and out.

Drive 6 - They start w/ a 7 yard sack on 1st down, and then hold them to a 2 yard rush on 2nd down, setting up a 3rd and 15 and allowing them to give up an underneath catch short of the first down for the 5th straight 3 and out. That was of course ruined by a penalty on the punt. They start the next series with a 1st down rush of -2 yards, again putting them in a hole that they climbed out of by converting a 3rd down pass right at the sticks. Their one bad run play during this long stretch came on the next play a 1st down run for 11 yards. The next series they again stopped them cold on 2nd and 5 for a zero yard gain, setting up another 3rd down which resulted in a holding call followed by an incompletion and a punt.

Drive 7 - 1st down is incomplete, 2nd down the run D again does the job holding them to 2 yards, and creating another 3rd and long and they get what would have been their 6th straight 3 and out if not for the penalty on the last drive.

How many times did the Pats get 6 straight 3 and outs last year? Not many I bet. And perhaps the biggest reason they were able to do so in this game? The stifling, dominant run D which left the Jags in bad 3rd down situations over and over. This is what I am judging the teams run D on for the game. Not some meaningless late yards, but the fact that they dominated for almost 3 straight quarters during which the score went from 3-0 to 9-33.

Jacksonville had 10 drives, 1 interception, 6 of them 3 and out 1 more that should have been if not for a dumb penalty by a rookie UDFA on 4th and 1.

Don't talk to me about yards. That run D was spectacular for almost the entire game.

If you want to consider 4 runs over 10 yards out of 23 good run defense because you can find sequences where there were running plays included in good defensive stands, thats fine, and I disagree. A football game is 60 minutes, and over 60 minutes I was very disappointed in the run D. I won't dismiss plays just because they don't support the opinion I want them to.
You have made your assessment, I disagree. I just think my standard is higher. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Ring 6]

They had 4 runs out of 23 that went for over 10 yards. And they had 16 run plays that went for 3 yards or less. So again, in the first game of the year, the first actual live tackling they've done this season, they were dominant on over 2/3rds of their runs and crappy on about 17%.

If you think that is 'poor' run D which is what you have been claiming all along, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I do disagree. 4 runs out of 23 going for over 10 yards is poor run d.

And you may think it's silly but I would say 99% of defenders are going to be thinking pass on 2nd and 7 when they are up 24 late in the 3rd. Good for Jacksonville, they got to practice their draw plays in a game in which they got destroyed in all facets after the 1st five minutes.

Regardless of what you think people are thinking we still need to stop the run on 2nd and 7 dont we? Teams do not go into pass only catchup mode when behind in preseason games, and the plays that happen with a big lead are no less important, as they are in a real game that is decided.

Again you're talking about a pre-season game with guys coming in and out a lot particularly in the 2nd half, you're going to have breakdowns. You see 4 bad plays in a game and call it poor. I see domination on 7 out of 9 drives and call it very good. I say Tomato you say poor.

Which is it? Is it good or good with excuses? I am judging the play on the field. I stated at the outset these were backups. You just dismissed the bad plays because of who was playing, doesnt that dismiss the good as well?

 

[livinginthe past]

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Pats D snaps 2nd half

Didn't realise straight away what this was - a video of all the 2nd half defensive snaps.

Thanks for putting it together!

 

[NEP4Life]

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Pats D snaps 2nd half

Impressive!

Will you be doing this all season?

 

[The Boston Patriot]

This is the point though. He didn't play poorly last night, yet people are concluding he plays poorly.
He can't win on this board. The average NFL corner allows about 5 cathes a game. Every time butler allows one, fans think that is an indication he sucks, because any corner who allows a catch must suck. Its silly really.

A hellova compliment for Butler: "He didn't play poorly last night, yet people are concluding he plays poorly. " How about just one time this comment: "He played a great game". Sadly, this has never happened, or if it did it was very forgettable.

 

[The Scrizz]

If you want to consider 4 runs over 10 yards out of 23 good run defense because you can find sequences where there were running plays included in good defensive stands, thats fine, and I disagree. A football game is 60 minutes, and over 60 minutes I was very disappointed in the run D. I won't dismiss plays just because they don't support the opinion I want them to.
You have made your assessment, I disagree. I just think my standard is higher. Nothing wrong with that.

You're standard isn't higher, just inconsistent. The run D gave up 4 plays over 10 yards on 23 carries, the pass D gave up 7 plays over 10 yards out of 26 attempts. So by your own method the pass D played poorly as well because they gave up a few big plays.

And you think the run D played poorly but Butler didn't. Yeah, you're Mr. Consistency.

 

[nnmnmmnn]

You're standard isn't higher, just inconsistent. The run D gave up 4 plays over 10 yards on 23 carries, the pass D gave up 7 plays over 10 yards out of 26 attempts. So by your own method the pass D played poorly as well because they gave up a few big plays.

And you think the run D played poorly but Butler didn't. Yeah, you're Mr. Consistency.

Gimme a frigging break. Do you really....
Damn...

In my short time posting on this board, I've come to appreciate the contradicting opinions that AJ presents. I don't always agree with him, including the assessment that the run d was bad (overall). There are really better arguments to be made. And I feel a bit guilty making a comparison between your post and a valid argument, that's how weak it was.

Total rushing yards given up? No idea what the number is, but I guarantee it's a good argument for why the run d was good. No thought required.

 

[Triumph]

My assumption is, whatever coverage they put him in, they would prefer he either cover a receiver well enough as to prevent to the QB from throwing to him or if the ball is thrown to his receiver, he should break up or dare I say, intercept the pass.

The way he is playing seems to be allow the catch but minimize the damage. 5 yards per catch is still damage.

I noticed the ball was thrown to his side quite a bit. Maybe Jax decided they were having some success there?

When you find the weak link why go somewhere else?

Butler is afraid to get burnt for a TD, so he plays in the next zip code.

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

Random thoughts from game 1
I don't get the negativity about Butler. He allowed a few catches, but

lol ..

filler

 

[NinjaZX6R]

last part of the video

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Pats O snaps 2nd half+ the one D snap series (i missed 1 snap of a series that was an int)

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Impressive!

Will you be doing this all season?

Depends on my school work and such. also doing weekly Mike Brewster videos.

 

[Ring 6]

A hellova compliment for Butler: "He didn't play poorly last night, yet people are concluding he plays poorly. " How about just one time this comment: "He played a great game". Sadly, this has never happened, or if it did it was very forgettable.

There is a lot of area between great and poor. He is somewhere in there.
Btw, who ever said it was intended as a complement?

 

[Ring 6]

You're standard isn't higher, just inconsistent. The run D gave up 4 plays over 10 yards on 23 carries, the pass D gave up 7 plays over 10 yards out of 26 attempts. So by your own method the pass D played poorly as well because they gave up a few big plays.

And you think the run D played poorly but Butler didn't. Yeah, you're Mr. Consistency.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you think there is an equal relationship between 10 plus run plays and 10 plus pass plays? Really?
What kind of a pass defensive day do you think 11 of 26 with 7 completions of 10 or more is?
You've gone whacko on this argument.
By the way we allowed 95 net passing yards and 98 net rushing yards in a league where passing yards are typically at least double rushing yards.
Avg yards per pass att were 4.6 which is about 30% better than the best defense in the NFL last season (6.3)
The run defense allowed 4.3 per carry which would have ranked tied for 16th thru 18th last year.
Are you really trying to say the run defense was better than the pass defense?

 

[Professor Frink]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you think there is an equal relationship between 10 plus run plays and 10 plus pass plays? Really?
What kind of a pass defensive day do you think 11 of 26 with 7 completions of 10 or more is?
You've gone whacko on this argument.
By the way we allowed 95 net passing yards and 98 net rushing yards in a league where passing yards are typically at least double rushing yards.
Avg yards per pass att were 4.6 which is about 30% better than the best defense in the NFL last season (6.3)
The run defense allowed 4.3 per carry which would have ranked tied for 16th thru 18th last year.
Are you really trying to say the run defense was better than the pass defense?

It's like taking candy from a baby