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My Observations Pre Season Game 1

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Aug 13, 2011.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Random thoughts from game 1


    Yes, we played 43, but we also played 2 gap.
    (I realize these were backups so everything must be taken with a grain of salt)
    We better play much better run defense.
    The pass defense was excellent.

    I don't get the negativity about Butler. He allowed a few catches, but they were short plays in front of him, but for one 3rd down play in the second half that he made a play on the ball and missed.
    If you are looking for reasons to rip him, then you sat there and said they completed a pass, it was Butler's man, therefore Butler sucks, as if NFL teams don't complete passes.
    I thought his coverage was decent, and he played the scheme. Overall, an average effort by Butler.

    Taylor Price was very impressive. He looks like he belongs and can produce.
    When you add Hernandez to the mix because he does WRtype things, I think our receiving group is stronger and deeper than most people realize.
    Edelman continues to be invisible in the offense. Those bagging on Tate: he didn't play in the game.

    Ridley was very impressive. I saw him do everything I want a RB to do, and show every skill a RB needs to show. Love how we draft what looks like a complete RB and this board spent weeks lamenting why we wasted a 3rd on a guy who will never be more than a short yardage back.
    Lets see what he does vs 1s, but this guy has the ability to shoot up the depth chart.

    Mallett doesn't look like a rookie. He knows what he wants to do back there, and is decisive.
    Hoyer looks like a veteran, and I don't see a lot of #2 QBs out there I'd rather have. (I see some overrated starters that teams aren't ready to give up on that I'd play Hoyer ahead of)

    I think we are going to have about a dozen front 7 players who all see a lot of action, and I think it will be a very good deep group.

    When you see the rookies and youngsters who are out there playing this well, it makes you want to see Vereen and Dowling real soon.

    I can't think of one or a few things we did real well to result in a 35 point win, because I think we just pretty much beat them all day long at every aspect of football. A real thrashing, and a great way to get football back.
     
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  2. Frezo

    Frezo In the Starting Line-Up

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    The D got gashed a couple of time by a delayed hand off. It didn't mean much in the big picture of the game, but it threw off the timing of the pass rush. No doubt BB will be all over that.
     
  3. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They got gashed by running plays. They weren't rushing the passer, it was vs nickel or dime.
    Now, put Wilfork, Haynesworth and Ellis on the DL and Mayo and Spikes out there and that all changes, but if we play run D like we did last night, the D will be taking a big step backward.
     
  4. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I agree on everything except Butler.

    If Butler was a mid to late round pick I think folks would cut him some slack.

    He was drafted to be Devin McCourty. I think when he played for Bodden and failed, his confidence totally eroded.

    So now you have a guy who won't play tight or take chances in fear of further failure. He'll always play with some cushion as he figures he'll allow some receptions and wrap em up.

    Those 5 to 7 yard receptions add up.
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He doesn't choose the coverage. Nice job trying to psychoanalyze him though. :rolleyes:
    I don't really care if he is an UDFA or the 1st pick in the draft, once he gets here its about play, not where you were drafted.
     
  6. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think you'd be much more fun to psychoanalyze.

    DBs don't choose coverage, but they can freelance regarding how tight they play somebody.

    But i guess everyone else is just seeing things.;)
     
  7. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I've had issues with Butler since Brian Hartline schooled him nonstop back in 09. At the time I gave him the excuse of being a rookie but since then he hasn't gotten any better or worse, just exactly the same a whole two years later.

    I think it would be best if we just cut him and watch the waiver wire for his replacement at the cutdown dates.
     
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, I guess you are seeing what you want.
    You have decided you know how Butler thinks, how I have no clue, and now you think that he is freelancing and not playing the coverage called.
    I guess if we make enough up, we can blame the economy on him too.
     
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the point though. He didn't play poorly last night, yet people are concluding he plays poorly.
    He can't win on this board. The average NFL corner allows about 5 cathes a game. Every time butler allows one, fans think that is an indication he sucks, because any corner who allows a catch must suck. Its silly really.
     
  10. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm conjecturing why he's playing so badly.....and hasn't progressed.

    You're trying to convince people his play is satisfactory.
     
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, you are even tougher than most.
    Was it the game Hartline caught 4 passes for 41 yards that he 'schooled Butler nonstop' or the one he caught 1 for 18?
     
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am stating what I saw.
    You are trying to guess what he is thinking and ignore what the coverage that is called may be and make him accountable to deciding all on his own what he is assigned to do on a play. Who are you trying to convince of what?
     
  13. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    My assumption is, whatever coverage they put him in, they would prefer he either cover a receiver well enough as to prevent to the QB from throwing to him or if the ball is thrown to his receiver, he should break up or dare I say, intercept the pass.

    The way he is playing seems to be allow the catch but minimize the damage. 5 yards per catch is still damage.

    I noticed the ball was thrown to his side quite a bit. Maybe Jax decided they were having some success there?
     
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    It really depends on the down and distance as well. If it's 3rd and 10 and he gives up a 5 yard catch, that's exactly what you want and what the defense wants. I'm more worried about our DBs giving up the big play or the 1st down conversion than the 5-7 yard short catches.

    Can't say Butler has impressed me, but he's a guy who always had physical tools. It's a matter of using them. In any case our starters are McCourty and Bodden, so Butler as the 4th or 5th CB on the field is not a big worry to me.
     
  15. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    It was the one where Hartline had 41 yards. We lost that game 22-21. But it wasn't just hartline, it was everyone. First down after first down.

    Leading tacklers that game Tackles/Asst Mayo:9-3, Butler:8-0, J.Green:5-0, Guyton:5-1, Bodden:4-0, everyone else 3 or less. Also Butler missed at least two tackles. The game where Braylon schooled him last year was similar to this and then he was benched in favor of arrington.

    I see his potential but he just seems like a lost cause. Maybe another team can bring it out of him.

    For me its to the point where most qb's point out the mike presnap and so on but when they face us they are just pointing to where butler is on the field lol.
     
  16. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice job on the random thoughts Andy.

    As far as Edelman, I'm not really sure how much we can read into that. He only played in 8 of 80 total snaps, 4 or 5 which were running plays. That gave him 3, maybe a total of 4 snaps to even have any chance at making a play. That equates to one lousy series. You may be right, but I'm not going to look anything too deeply into that myself.

    If Edelman was even remotely close to being on the bubble, he would've played a lot more reps to allow the coaches to assess him, as many of the 'bubble' players normally do. By only playing 8 total snaps, that easily tells me that Belichick already has him locked down for a roster spot.

    As far as Tate goes, you are very correct in reminding everyone the fact that he didn't play--so I wouldn't look too much into that either.

    Personally, I think that they both have no problem making the team, but I do think that only one of Price/Tate will be active on game day--at least until injury of course, which could change everything.
     
  17. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think Butler has anything to worry about, particularly since no one else in really challenging him for the #4 or #5 CB spot. Wilhite is much more likely to go, in my opinion anyway. Especially until If/when the Dowling injury situation clears up.

    I feel your frustration, but I don't think BB gives up on him just yet. He did seem to make some strides at times last yr--only time will tell, but I'm guessing he's the #4/#5 CB pretty easily.
     
  18. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Butler has no heart or fire in him.

    He looked like a little kid with his little shove when big bully Edwards was dancing in his face.

    Rodney would've torn Edwards face off and worn it as a mask...just sayin'
     
  19. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree he seems to have a lack of confidence, no doubt.

    The problem is that no one is really there to challenge him too much, as Butler's overall talent level is still superior to that of Wilhite right now. I think he has better speed, better big play potential, and better possibilities of ST returns if needed.

    As far as Dowling--he is simply a wildcard right now, and there's nothing to go on yet. Even so, Dowling is likely the 4th, while Butler would still be the 5th CB at the moment. Or vice-versa.
     
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Maybe we ought to merge all these threads into one big thread called "nothing but Butler talk". Its getting tiring. Those haters either are ignoring the fact that in playing zone coverage passes are GOING to be completed. IF the Pats played a tight man to man coverage, then maybe some of the criticism would be justified. BUT THE PATS DON'T!

    I think we all agree that the Pats play a complex combination of defenses, that take full time pros a couple of years to feel comfortable in. So it is remarkable that some casual fans can make blanket judgements based on a TV feed on what certain players' responsibilities are, and how well they managed them. :rolleyes:

    The sad part about this is that there were many other aspects of the game that could be discussed and are being hijacked by all the focus on Butler.

    Among those are the fact we are ignoring what a fantastic job the coaches did in preparing these back ups for this game. Considering, the lockout and just 7 padded practices, it was almost incomprehensible that the Pats BACKUPS could looks so smooth in their execution. 47 points on offense. 9 points given up on D (-3 for the fumble) FOUR penalties (which really was impressive). That's utterly amazing. Yet its not worth a comment in at least to threads its been brought up. (mine and Andy's)

    Why aren't there more heated discussions on the awesome DL competition that is evolving in camp? Love, Richards,Cohen, etc ALL looked like Quality NFL players. Who is going to make the squad? They certainly didn't do anything to make BB's job easier....and what do we do about Deadrick and Brace who haven't even made if off the PUP list. Do you IR them, or just let them go? BTW I wish someone would find out how close or far away they are from coming back.

    If Ridley looked that quick and had good hands, what can we expect to see when SHANE Vereen gets back on the field.....and how will it affect the RB competition.

    And what about that kid Medelin, who I had no idea was even on the roster, looked very quick. Impressive for someone you didn't even know was on the team....or even where he was from.

    Why no discussion on how Cunningham is doing. Is he a DE or LB. Why not any discussions on how good Ninko looks or where Fletcher will fit in once the entire defense is fielded. Is he JUST going to be Mayo's back up?

    BOTTOM LINE there are many OTHER topics to discuss besides the (evidently) locked in positions on Darius Butler.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
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