Mock drafts and the secondary

[carolinatony]

I know CB is a bigger need but would you take Taylor Mays if he dropped?
Look at what Troy Polamalu means to the Steelers.

 

[Sciz]

I would rather not have Mays. I think he's one of the most overrated players in the draft and the Pats are more than set at safety. They'd much rather trade down with a team that wants him, I bet.

 

[mayoclinic]

I know CB is a bigger need but would you take Taylor Mays if he dropped?
Look at what Troy Polamalu means to the Steelers.

I'll take Polamalu, but not Mays. Taylor Mays is no Troy Polamalu.

 

[NePatriots]

I'll take Polamalu, but not Mays. Taylor Mays is no Troy Polamalu.

Heck, even Troy Polamalu wasn't Troy Polamalu coming out of college.

That said, Taylor Mays is a good safety. He is not Ed Reed. He is not Troy Polamalu. He could be an Adrian Wilson-esque type player though.

 

[dryheat44]

Heck, even Troy Polamalu wasn't Troy Polamalu coming out of college.

That said, Taylor Mays is a good safety. He is not Ed Reed. He is not Troy Polamalu. He could be an Adrian Wilson-esque type player though.

He's not even Brandon Meriweather. And I'm not sure he's Patrick Chung.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's a particularly bad 6 round mock posted today which has the Pats taking 2 secondary players in the first 2 rounds:

NewNFLDraft.com: 2010 NFL Mock Draft

This mock has us taking:

22. Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech. I like Dwyer, but Carlos Dunlap, Jason Pierre-Paul, Greg Hardy, Everson Griffen, Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes are all available.
46. Mardy Gilyard, WR. What about Brandon Tate?
53. Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State. If we went CB, I'd take Kareem Jackson (going #60) over Robinson any day.
54. Reshad Jones, S, Georgia.
117. Desmond Brizcoe, WR, Kansas. 2 WRs? Come on.
181. Curtis Gregory, OG, Missouri.

Some other notable picks in this draft:

127. Gabe Carimi, OT/OG, Wisconsin. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
129. Greg Romeus, DE/OLB, Pittsburgh. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
130. Jeremy Beal, DE/OLB, Oklahoma. Will be a 2nd/3rd round pick if he declares.
138. Ryan Mathews, RB, Fresno State. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
140. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho. Will be a 1st/2nd round pick.
160. Aaron Hernadez, TE, Florida. Will be a 1st/2nd round pick if he declares.
167. Vladimir Ducasse, OT/OG, UMass. Will go anywhere from late 1st to early 3rd round.
176. Austen Lane, DE/OLB, Murray State. Will probably go late 2nd/early 3rd round.

This is probably the worst mock I've seen so far this year. We could start at pick 127 and get the top 3 RG/RT candidates in the draft (Iupati, Ducasse and Carimi), 3 of the best DE/OLB candidates for the Pats (Romeus, Beal and Lane), one of the top 2 TEs (Hernandez) and one of the top RBs (Mathews). I'd take any of those guys over every player given to us except for possibly Jonathan Dwyer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Here's a particularly bad 6 round mock posted today which has the Pats taking 2 secondary players in the first 2 rounds:

NewNFLDraft.com: 2010 NFL Mock Draft

This mock has us taking:

22. Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech. I like Dwyer, but Carlos Dunlap, Jason Pierre-Paul, Greg Hardy, Everson Griffen, Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes are all available.
46. Mardy Gilyard, WR. What about Brandon Tate?
53. Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State. If we went CB, I'd take Kareem Jackson (going #60) over Robinson any day.
54. Reshad Jones, S, Georgia.
117. Desmond Brizcoe, WR, Kansas. 2 WRs? Come on.
181. Curtis Gregory, OG, Missouri.

Some other notable picks in this draft:

127. Gabe Carimi, OT/OG, Wisconsin. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
129. Greg Romeus, DE/OLB, Pittsburgh. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
130. Jeremy Beal, DE/OLB, Oklahoma. Will be a 2nd/3rd round pick if he declares.
138. Ryan Mathews, RB, Fresno State. Will be a 2nd round pick if he declares.
140. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho. Will be a 1st/2nd round pick.
160. Aaron Hernadez, TE, Florida. Will be a 1st/2nd round pick if he declares.
167. Vladimir Ducasse, OT/OG, UMass. Will go anywhere from late 1st to early 3rd round.
176. Austen Lane, DE/OLB, Murray State. Will probably go late 2nd/early 3rd round.

This is probably the worst mock I've seen so far this year. We could start at pick 127 and get the top 3 RG/RT candidates in the draft (Iupati, Ducasse and Carimi), 3 of the best DE/OLB candidates for the Pats (Romeus, Beal and Lane), one of the top 2 TEs (Hernandez) and one of the top RBs (Mathews). I'd take any of those guys over every player given to us except for possibly Jonathan Dwyer.

Well, Gilyard is #2 nationally in All-Purpose yards, he's nationally ranked in receiving yards, KR yards, and PR yards. Tate is #16, he's ranked in receiving yards. Further, I don't believe Tate has declared yet.

Tate has 15 TDs to Gilyard's 11 and he has more rushing yardage than Mardy. Frankly, either would be a nice addition, but Mardy is bringing more in terms of return experience...and we know he's overcome adversity to achieve his goals.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well, Gilyard is #2 nationally in All-Purpose yards, he's nationally ranked in receiving yards, KR yards, and PR yards. Tate is #16, he's ranked in receiving yards. Further, I don't believe Tate has declared yet.

Tate has 15 TDs to Gilyard's 11 and he has more rushing yardage than Mardy. Frankly, either would be a nice addition, but Mardy is bringing more in terms of return experience...and we know he's overcome adversity to achieve his goals.

Tate has declared.

Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen decides to enter draft - ESPN

What would you expect either one to bring over a healthy Brandon Tate?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Well, Gilyard is #2 nationally in All-Purpose yards, he's nationally ranked in receiving yards, KR yards, and PR yards. Tate is #16, he's ranked in receiving yards. Further, I don't believe Tate has declared yet.

Tate has 15 TDs to Gilyard's 11 and he has more rushing yardage than Mardy. Frankly, either would be a nice addition, but Mardy is bringing more in terms of return experience...and we know he's overcome adversity to achieve his goals.

Gilyard is a playmaker. I am concerned about the durability of his chicken legs, but he contributes in two phases of the game.

 

[dryheat44]

Gilyard is a playmaker. I am concerned about the durability of his chicken legs, but he contributes in two phases of the game.

So if we want a playmaker, and one who can contribute in two phases, is your preference Gilyard, Spiller, or Arenas? Please show your work.

 

[mayoclinic]

Gilyard is a playmaker. I am concerned about the durability of his chicken legs, but he contributes in two phases of the game.

And Brandon Tate wasn't a playmaker in college? Isn't that exactly what we drafted him for, knowing that he wouldn't likely contribute until 2010?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Tate has declared.

Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen decides to enter draft - ESPN

What would you expect either one to bring over a healthy Brandon Tate?

At the time of his injury Brandon Tate was averaging 163.7 APY.

Gilyard: 203.5 (Two phases - like B.Tate)
G.Tate: 159.58 (primarily receiving)

Of the three, Golden appears to be the more dynamic receiver; Mardy is the more multi-dimensional, and Brandon is a slightly less productive version of Mardy...though the difference could just be their respective schemes.

 

[mayoclinic]

At the time of his injury Brandon Tate was averaging 163.7 APY.

Gilyard: 203.5 (Two phases - like B.Tate)
G.Tate: 159.58 (primarily receiving)

Of the three, Golden appears to be the more dynamic receiver; Mardy is the more multi-dimensional, and Brandon is a slightly less productive version of Mardy...though the difference could just be their respective schemes.

Brandon Tate also came out as a junior. Who knows how productive he could have been if he had played healthy his senior year, like Mardy Gilyard did.

So I repeat, given that we will have a presumably health Brandon Tate on the roster for 2010, what do Gilyard and Golden Tate really add? I like all 3 players - I was touting Gilyard a year ago as someone to keep an eye on - I just don't see the benefit of having multiple guys with fairly similar skills and styles. Sure, you can always use more playmakers and it's nice to have redundancy for insurance, but we have other areas of need which are more pressing.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Brandon Tate also came out as a junior.

Tate was actually a senior when he came out. He had a pretty productive junior season and the in his senior year he tore his ACL and MCL while he was becoming a star in the return game and at WR. Him and Percy Harvin had very similar skill sets, and I think we got a steal in the 3rd round with Tate. He was a first round talent before his injury.

I just hope he doesn't suffer from Chad Jackson syndrome after these problems with his knee ligaments

 

[mayoclinic]

Tate was actually a senior when he came out. He had a pretty productive junior season and the in his senior year he tore his ACL and MCL while he was becoming a star in the return game and at WR. Him and Percy Harvin had very similar skill sets, and I think we got a steal in the 3rd round with Tate. He was a first round talent before his injury.

I just hope he doesn't suffer from Chad Jackson syndrome after these problems with his knee ligaments

Thanks for the correction. My bad.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks for the correction. My bad.

As usual.

Redundancy is exactly what I'm looking for: Troy Brown, David Patten, David Givens, Deion Branch. The four musketeers filled all the niches without creating a disproportionate pull in one over another to encourage Tommy into bad habits. Sam Aiken has a little D-Giv power, Edelman could easily turn into a blend of Welker and Branch, Brandon Tate looked good in limited play...I don't know about Stanback, but having a complementary deep threat to work opposite Moss, like a Golden Tate or a Mardy Gilyard can't hurt. Having some depth in the return game can't hurt.

 

[mayoclinic]

As usual.

I always know I can count on you.

If you're looking for that kind of redundancy (rather than a big possession WR like Rejus Benn or Brandon LaFell, or a deep threat like Demaryius Williams), then Golden Tate and Mardy Gilyard are great options. I would be quite happy to have that kind of redundancy. But I assume it would cost us a #2 pick, and I'm not sure I'd prefer it over the following options:

1. Using the pick on a "redundant" pass rusher. Draft 2 DE/OLB prospects like Jeremy Beal, Austen Lane, Greg Romeus, Brandon Graham or Greg Hardy.
2. Using the pick on a "redundant" OL. Draft 2 OG/OT prospects like Gabe Carimi, Mike Iupati and Vladimir Ducasse. One could eventualy move to RT.
3. Using the pick on a RB like Jonathan Dwyer, Ryan Mathews, Toby Gerhart or an all-purpose back like Jahvid Best.
4. Using the pick for a TE (especially if Ben Watson leaves) like Jermaine Gresham or Aaron Hernandez.
5. Using the pick for a CB (if Leigh Bodden leaves) like Brandon Ghee or Kareem Jackson.
6. Using the pick to trade up in the 1st round for an impact player like Rolando McClain.

We can't do all of those things. If BB feels that redundancy at WR is more important than those other things, then I'm all for Golden Tate or Mardy Gilyard.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I always know I can count on you.



If you're looking for that kind of redundancy (rather than a big possession WR like Rejus Benn or Brandon LaFell, or a deep threat like Demaryius Williams), then Golden Tate and Mardy Gilyard are great options. I would be quite happy to have that kind of redundancy. But I assume it would cost us a #2 pick, and I'm not sure I'd prefer it over the following options:

1. Using the pick on a "redundant" pass rusher. Draft 2 DE/OLB prospects like Jeremy Beal, Austen Lane, Greg Romeus, Brandon Graham or Greg Hardy.
2. Using the pick on a "redundant" OL. Draft 2 OG/OT prospects like Gabe Carimi, Mike Iupati and Vladimir Ducasse. One could eventualy move to RT.
3. Using the pick on a RB like Jonathan Dwyer, Ryan Mathews, Toby Gerhart or an all-purpose back like Jahvid Best.
4. Using the pick for a TE (especially if Ben Watson leaves) like Jermaine Gresham or Aaron Hernandez.
5. Using the pick for a CB (if Leigh Bodden leaves) like Brandon Ghee or Kareem Jackson.
6. Using the pick to trade up in the 1st round for an impact player like Rolando McClain.

We can't do all of those things. If BB feels that redundancy at WR is more important than those other things, then I'm all for Golden Tate or Mardy Gilyard.

Part of the reason NE's pass rush isn't as effective is the defense is rarely playing with a lead against a team made one-dimensional by the score. I'd like to see improvement in the edge rush, but this team this season was designed around the offense the same way Indy's is - I didn't get a vote so my views on that result are much grumbling to be done in another forum.

Trying to look ahead to the 2010 draft:

I'll agree the single biggest "structural" problem on defense is getting a strong edge rush. It's biggest problem of late has been Safety play, but that's a mental issue for the defensive coaches to work on. The question going forward then is does Bill redesign the defense to be more self-sufficient, or does he try to improve in all three phases - I don't think it requires much effort to guess he'll try to get better across the board.

1 late First Round pick/3 Second Round picks: With four Day One picks in 2009 BB addressed the secondary (twice), the defensive line, the offensive line, wide receiver, Special Teams (Chung, Butler, & Tate), and picked up an extra second in 2010. Bill created six picks (5 2009/1 2010) and addressed all three phases - it seems reasonable to think he'll try to address all three phases in the early rounds of 2010 again.

I'm going to hope for one strong pass rusher somewhere in the draft - I'm not going to hold my breath. If we could make one retroactive move this season to strengthen this team going into the playoffs, I'd argue it's not grabbing an edge rusher - it's finding that elusive #3 WR who exploits defenses when they roll coverage to Moss and Welker. If Joey Galloway just gets open and holds onto the ball this team is undefeated until it runs into Indy and NO, and maybe not even then.

Going into the playoffs the best thing thing that can happen to the team, besides having some people wake up and get their heads into the game, is for Edelman, Aiken, and Watson to become Brady's binkies as much as Moss, Welker, and Faulk are. Watson has been there in the past, Edelman against the Jesters showed potential, but it's on Brady to get these guys into his head - as receivers working with him and targets he sees clearly. I'd love for Tommy to get up by 30 against Buffalo and sit the last quarter resting his ribs.