Matt Williamson: Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Williams

[Wilfork#75]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

We don't do 7 year deals. Even for the QB. Mankins got 6, Wilfork got 5. You can only amortize signing bonus for 5. And even if we use option bonus if it's guaranteed it starts amortizing immediately as Manning's did even before it was paid. If his deal were to average $14M he isn't going to allow for much backloading that only insures he gets cut before the final season. And you can't do what Chicago did with Peppers because there is no uncapped season to absorb $20M in cap hit off the top. And even with that his cap hit this season is $12M and will rise for the remainder of the deal. He's going to want at least half of his deal guaranteed, that's the going rate and at his rate that's going to be $40M+. If he takes less in average, he will want more guaranteed. Part of that will be signing bonus, and it's hard to top $20M here because you asked Brady and others to remain at or below that line.

They can absolutely fit Mario under the cap if they choose to. Same way the JETS do it. The question will remain at what cost, and not just in contract but in roster cuts elsewhere and in quality depth and morgaging the future. Next year and the year after we will have the young TE's to deal with just for openers and they will likely be looking for deals in the $7-8M per range. Then there will be the OT's as well as Chung and Spikes. Which one or more of them do you not want to retain or replace so we can have a $12-14M DE on the roster? The cap will go up double digits in 2014, but so will contract demands for existing and future players. There is more than one way a team can come up just a little short of winning it all.

I wasn't aware that your could only amortize a signing bonus over 5 years. Even still, that would only bump the first 5 years up $1.2 mil per season which is minimal. As for the length, Mayo got a 5 year extension on top of his 2 remaining years, so it essentially a 7 year deal, although the first 2 years are still part of his rookie deal. Brady signed his 5 year deal at the age of 33, Wilfork 29 and Mankins 29. Mario Williams just turned 27 years old, so a 7 year deal makes sense. And it generally costs more to sign new players than retain your old ones. I think at this stage Brady and Wilfork care more about winning that who makes more money, so I don't see them having too much of an issue if someone has a bigger signing bonus. The giant roster bonus at the end of the current contract was more of a throw away line because you can never underestimate a players ego. I'm not cap expert and I do not claim to be. I'm just trying to look deeper at how something like this could come together, and any constructive input you could add would be appreciated.

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Why would Belichick care that the Bears overpaid for Peppers? What would the point be for the Pats to drive up Peppers' price so a team in another conference, that the Pats play once every four years unless both make it to the Super Bowl, could sign him for more than what they originally intended to do? In fact, driving up the price on Peppers only hurts the Pats with Williams or any other top d-lineman if they are interested in because it drove up the market for all d-lineman.

If Belichick is just jumping into the negotiations to drive up the price, he is an idiot. Unless it is a division rival, there is zero upside to do so. Even then, the impact of on the market for future deals will be negatively impacted that any benefits for making a division rival overpay may be negated by the fact that the Pats would have to pay more to retain their own free agents or go after a player they really desire.

I totally disagree that it is one of the GM's jobs to drive up the price for free agents they have no intention to sign. In fact, it goes against what their job should be.

well.....it depends if one of our division neighbors is involved

besides.....it never hurts to window-shop, to kick the tires on almost any player. the only time anything even starts to matter is when an offer is extended.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

It's purely speculative, but I really don't see Williams going after Peppers type money. I've done a ton of research about the guy from the local papers and from stuff written before the draft. He's often described as a quiet but respected leader, a football nerd, very subdued in his off-field demeanor, and has no propensity for shiny stuff. From everything written about him he's a self described country boy who likes to fill his spare time collecting hunting guns and playing with his RC cars. Not exactly a tremendously expensive pair of hobbies. The guy already got a fifty million dollar deal and he's gone on record as saying that he's already wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. He's said that where he lands will come down to schematic diversity and coaching not contract. Obviously he deserves to and will be highly compensated, but I don't think an earth shattering deal is as important to him as a chance to play under a great coach in a creative scheme. I think it will take somewhere between 7 and 9 AAV to get him. That's not a boatload of money and is certainly not cost prohibitive.

IDK, Logan Mankins is a pick up truck kind of guy who spends his off time cattle rustling. It didn't stop him for wanting a big contract.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

I wouldn't be surprised since they were in the Peppers sweepstakes too. But just like Peppers, they might be unwilling to go as high as the biggest bidders. Two big difference this time around is that Williams is younger and has proven he can play in both the 4-3 and 3-4. That said, that doesn't mean the Pats will be willing to pay what it takes to get him.

Peppers also made peanuts for the first chunk of his career. He got tagged one year, and it was no secret that he was seeking tippy top dollar with his next contract from the opening shot.

Mario Williams, per a few sources, isn't looking solely at dollar amounts, and he did get #1 pick money the first time around.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

IDK, Logan Mankins is a pick up truck kind of guy who spends his off time cattle rustling. It didn't stop him for wanting a big contract.

Mankins didn't spend his entire career(to that point) playing only 16 games a year either.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

It's purely speculative, but I really don't see Williams going after Peppers type money. I've done a ton of research about the guy from the local papers and from stuff written before the draft. He's often described as a quiet but respected leader, a football nerd, very subdued in his off-field demeanor, and has no propensity for shiny stuff. From everything written about him he's a self described country boy who likes to fill his spare time collecting hunting guns and playing with his RC cars. Not exactly a tremendously expensive pair of hobbies. The guy already got a fifty million dollar deal and he's gone on record as saying that he's already wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. He's said that where he lands will come down to schematic diversity and coaching not contract. Obviously he deserves to and will be highly compensated, but I don't think an earth shattering deal is as important to him as a chance to play under a great coach in a creative scheme. I think it will take somewhere between 7 and 9 AAV to get him. That's not a boatload of money and is certainly not cost prohibitive.

Will be interesting. If he does go to NE or a contender on a 'reduced' up front contract of say 9-10m or if he stays in Hou because if Schaub stays fit, and their FA/Draft goes well they'll be right up there with NE and Bal as AFC title favorites next year

 

[jays52]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

IDK, Logan Mankins is a pick up truck kind of guy who spends his off time cattle rustling. It didn't stop him for wanting a big contract.

He also didn't get a 50 million dollar rookie deal...

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Reiss has apparently confirmed that the Pats will be participants in the sweepstakes. They were also apparently scouting DE/OLB's real hard at the combine. That is more than likely just a ploy to bait everyone into looking there while we draft 5 CB's.

and 2 more TE's

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

It's purely speculative, but I really don't see Williams going after Peppers type money. I've done a ton of research about the guy from the local papers and from stuff written before the draft. He's often described as a quiet but respected leader, a football nerd, very subdued in his off-field demeanor, and has no propensity for shiny stuff. From everything written about him he's a self described country boy who likes to fill his spare time collecting hunting guns and playing with his RC cars. Not exactly a tremendously expensive pair of hobbies. The guy already got a fifty million dollar deal and he's gone on record as saying that he's already wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. He's said that where he lands will come down to schematic diversity and coaching not contract. Obviously he deserves to and will be highly compensated, but I don't think an earth shattering deal is as important to him as a chance to play under a great coach in a creative scheme. I think it will take somewhere between 7 and 9 AAV to get him. That's not a boatload of money and is certainly not cost prohibitive.

You're delusional. He made $54M or almost $11M AAV (or a million per sack) on his 5 year rookie deal and you think he will take 50-75% of his market value ($12-14M+) to sign on here? They'd drum him out of the NFLPA. If he were willing to take that kind of money Houston would have re-signed him by now. They too are a contender. And they convinced their DC to stay. They all claim it's not about the money but at the end of the day it almost always is.

 

[everlong]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

7-9M/year is half of what he could get if he pushed for every last dime. Obviously if you get him for that you do it in a heart beat and even throw in a trip to the Ground Round. I just cannot see his contract being less than the 10/11 range but we'll see.

We should just have one rumor du jour thread since 99.9% are bogus speculation especially when it comes to the Pats.

Hope I'm wrong on both fronts and grinning ear to ear when he signs that 5/45 contract.

 

[bruinator]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

7-9M/year is half of what he could get if he pushed for every last dime. Obviously if you get him for that you do it in a heart beat and even throw in a trip to the Ground Round. I just cannot see his contract being less than the 10/11 range but we'll see.

We should just have one rumor du jour thread since 99.9% are bogus speculation especially when it comes to the Pats.

Hope I'm wrong on both fronts and grinning ear to ear when he signs that 5/45 contract.

Ground Round... lol .. they still around ??

 

[jays52]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

You're delusional. He made $54M or almost $11M AAV (or a million per sack) on his 5 year rookie deal and you think he will take 50-75% of his market value ($12-14M+) to sign on here? They'd drum him out of the NFLPA. If he were willing to take that kind of money Houston would have re-signed him by now. They too are a contender. And they convinced their DC to stay. They all claim it's not about the money but at the end of the day it almost always is.

Isn't calling someone delusional a little strong? Goddamn, reading that was like getting yelled at by a girl. My head hurts. Lay off the caffeine, man, at your age that sh*t could make the ole ticker 'splode

Chill out with the dogma and let it play out. Neither one of us have a damn clue what is really going to happen. We've got different philosophies on stuff, and I won't be a d*ck and get into player evaluation, scheme, and fit. Let's just agree to disagree. No need to shriek so loud. Bad for the soul.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Peppers also made peanuts for the first chunk of his career. He got tagged one year, and it was no secret that he was seeking tippy top dollar with his next contract from the opening shot. Mario Williams, per a few sources, isn't looking solely at dollar amounts, and he did get #1 pick money the first time around.

Peppers rookie deal was valued at between $50-62M depending on how many incentives he met. He then signed a one year deal with the Panthers in lieu of the tag for $16.8M plus another $1.75M in possible incentives. He supposedly wanted to try out the 3-4, but he ended up signing with the Bears to play 4-3 at $14M per plus incentives about 2 minutes after FA opened.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Isn't calling someone delusional a little strong? Goddamn, reading that was like getting yelled at by a girl. My head hurts. Lay off the caffeine, man, at your age that sh*t could make the ole ticker 'splode Chill out with the dogma and let it play out. Neither one of us have a damn clue what is really going to happen. We've got different philosophies on stuff, and I won't be a d*ck and get into player evaluation, scheme, and fit. Let's just agree to disagree. No need to shriek so loud. Bad for the soul.

Delusional isn't strong at all in relation to what you seem to need to believe he will do. $7-9M is insulting money for a DE of his caliber. If you said you thought he'd take $10-12M for the right situation I'd still think your dreaming but I wouldn't have used the term delusional. That post was.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Tom Curran discusses the Mario Williams subject.

Would Pats make play for Mario Williams?

Where does it make sense for the Patriots to make a run at Williams?

• He's a 27-year-old that checks in at 6-6, 285 pounds. He's a 4-3 defensive end that played outside linebacker for the Texans when they made the switch to 3-4. He's got 53 sacks in 82 career games. He's a solid character guy.
  
• When Julius Peppers -- the closest comp to Williams in the league -- was available as a free agent, New England got in on Peppers with a tepid offer that eventually got blown away by the Bears. Still, they did make inquiries.
  
• The Patriots' most impactful defender on their front is Vince Wilfork. He is closer to the end of his career than the beginning and -- while there's still a lot of good football left -- Williams would be a strong complement.
  
• Williams should help the entire defense which, in turn, would take pressure off the Patriots offense which has been their bread-and-butter for too long. It would reduce pressure on Tom Brady having to be so fine and change the identity of their team. Possibly.

And why might the Patriots not be down with the idea of Mario Williams?

• Since the Patriots got burned with the Adalius Thomas signing they've been skittish about going in deep for free agents. Can't imagine Leigh Bodden's performance after getting paid makes them that much more anxious either.
  
• Williams has been hurt each of the past two seasons playing a total of 18 games. Given he will command a contract approaching the most lucrative in NFL history, is that something the Patriots want to risk?
  
• A big play for Williams in which they outbid everyone goes against their principals. Again, back to AD. The Patriots went off the board in signing him in 2007 and it worked out as poorly as it possibly could. Unless Williams is interested in signing for less, it's hard to imagine the Patriots being "really involved" as Williamson predicted.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Peppers also made peanuts for the first chunk of his career. He got tagged one year, and it was no secret that he was seeking tippy top dollar with his next contract from the opening shot.

Mario Williams, per a few sources, isn't looking solely at dollar amounts, and he did get #1 pick money the first time around.

Peppers was the second overall pick in the 2002 draft. The second overall pick doesn't make peanuts. MoLewis gave his numbers. Then he got $16.7 million on his franchise year. So by the time he signed with the Bears, he had already made between $67 and $79 million in salaries and bonuses. That ain't peanuts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Since the Patriots got burned with the Adalius Thomas signing they've been skittish about going in deep for free agents. Can't imagine Leigh Bodden's performance after getting paid makes them that much more anxious either.

Bodden had already spent time with the Patriots. He was a re-signing, not a true 'free agent' in the manner of Williams. Bodden should have no impact, whatsoever, on the Williams situation.

 

[bucky]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

This defense is absolutely jammed full of B-level players and has only one A-level player.

Ahh, very interesting. I'm curious which one you consider to be an A-level player, Vince or Mayo?

 

[makoute]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Ahh, very interesting. I'm curious which one you consider to be an A-level player, Vince or Mayo?

I'm sure Vince.

 

[everlong]

Re: Matt Williamson: The Pats will be "really involved" in trying to get Mario Willi

Ground Round... lol .. they still around ??

Not sure. I just love Rodney Harrison quote in America's game about Bellichick showing up looking all nasty and taking him there. Cracks me up every time.