Mankins should be available in October

[rookBoston]

Theoretically (contractually) the team could force Mankins to play for them in October... but human nature makes it impossible. This is a team sport. Why would you play a guy who's unhappy, unfocused, hasn't been practicing with the team, resents being forced to play under terms he doesn't accept? BB has benched elite players for being late to meetings, had players inactive because they attended a funeral during the week, etc. Even if Mankins was on the 53-man roster, BB would still not play him... you can't play a guy that's mentally absent. Any good coach would play a rookie or whatever JAG he has on the practice squad, if the guy is working and scrapping, rather than have a guy just going through the motions.

And the rest of the team (Brady included), who are busting their asses, wont want to play with a guy that's slumming with them, just to finish out his contract year. They'd rather play with a JAG who may not be as strong or talented, but is at least committed to doing his best and focused on the team. Anyway, Mankins has burned his bridges, probably intentionally, by making it personal and public. At this point, it would take a lot of "I was wrong, I was being immature, I'm committed to the Patriots and being part of a winning team" for him to get back on the field with the rest of the squad. This is Branch-redux.

For those of you who're concerned that Mankins could walk and the Pats get no compensation for him, I wouldn't be too worried. It's not like we're talking about damaged goods. This is an elite, young, veteran at the peak of his game. The NFL needs 64 starting OGs, and he's one of the top-5. Every single GM in the NFL will stop to wonder, even for just a moment, whether there's some way that Mankins would make sense for his team. I think Pioli in Kansas City would be ready pull the trigger on a trade for Mankins; his team needs talent and needs role models. San Diego and Oakland would probably be interested... and he's a west coast guy. Chicago needs help at OG. The Redskins need help at OG and are notorious for over-paying for elite veteran players (although maybe things will be different under the new coach). A 2011 1st is not out of the question, but a 2nd feels very reasonable. Or what about trading a 2012 1st for a pro-bowler that can help your team in 2010? BB has proved willing to be patient with his compensation. And if no one is willing to cough up high pick for compensation, I think BB can find something that works. I'm thinking back to the package of picks that New Orleans sent us for Tebucky Jones... it was a handful of mid and late round picks for a pretty flawed starter. Mankins is a much higher caliber player than Tebucky.

I don't know if the Nation needs to stress too much about this contract dispute. I'm disappointed-- Mankins has been one of my favorite players, steady and reliable-- but, meh, I'm already over it. The Pats have seen a lot of elite talent walk out the door at the peak of their game: Law, Milloy, Seymour, Branch. Sucks to lose them, but we cant pay everyone under the cap. I was really angry when cut Terry Glenn loose... seems completely silly in retrospect.

In any case, the Mankins situation is not nearly as urgent as the Seymour or Branch situation were, in terms of roster depth. We'll miss having Mankins solidifying the spot, but really, a step-function downgrade at LG is not as catastrophic as DE or WR. The team can play through it. Kaczur at LG seems eminently reasonable, and eminently affordable. Plus we have some young players for depth at the spot.

Logan's a great player, a solid citizen and team player. But it looks like he not one of the guys that the Pats are going to come to terms with. More than anything, I'm just glad that we have so many good players coming into the 5th and 6th years of their contract, that legitimately deserve elite contracts. We lose Seymour, but that gives us the space to sign Wilfork. We may lose Moss next year, but that loss will hopefully make the Brady negotiations viable. So be it.

 

[Pats726]

Theoretically (contractually) the team could force Mankins to play for them in October... but human nature makes it impossible. This is a team sport. Why would you play a guy who's unhappy, unfocused, hasn't been practicing with the team, resents being forced to play under terms he doesn't accept? BB has benched elite players for being late to meetings, had players inactive because they attended a funeral during the week, etc. Even if Mankins was on the 53-man roster, BB would still not play him... you can't play a guy that's mentally absent. Any good coach would play a rookie or whatever JAG he has on the practice squad, if the guy is working and scrapping, rather than have a guy just going through the motions. .

Firstly we do not know WHAT OR HOW Mankins will be in October IF indeed it gets to that. That is pure speculation multiplied over a few times. BB will do what is best for the team REGARDLESS of the situation. It might be he will not fit in..it might be just the opposite..and to try and decide that now is pointless. This could be resolved by then..he could be gone by then..there are many scenarios and really TOTALLY putting what ifs on to of themselves..at least at this point. maybe something to make the 6 weeks go by faster..BUT???

And the rest of the team (Brady included), who are busting their asses, wont want to play with a guy that's slumming with them, just to finish out his contract year. They'd rather play with a JAG who may not be as strong or talented, but is at least committed to doing his best and focused on the team. Anyway, Mankins has burned his bridges, probably intentionally, by making it personal and public. At this point, it would take a lot of "I was wrong, I was being immature, I'm committed to the Patriots and being part of a winning team" for him to get back on the field with the rest of the squad. This is Branch-redux.

Again, we have no idea of how the team looks at this situation..VERY speculative...It is similar to Branch in some ways different in others.

For those of you who're concerned that Mankins could walk and the Pats get no compensation for him, I wouldn't be too worried. It's not like we're talking about damaged goods. This is an elite, young, veteran at the peak of his game. The NFL needs 64 starting OGs, and he's one of the top-5. Every single GM in the NFL will stop to wonder, even for just a moment, whether there's some way that Mankins would make sense for his team. I think Pioli in Kansas City would be ready pull the trigger on a trade for Mankins; his team needs talent and needs role models. San Diego and Oakland would probably be interested... and he's a west coast guy. Chicago needs help at OG. The Redskins need help at OG and are notorious for over-paying for elite veteran players (although maybe things will be different under the new coach). A 2011 1st is not out of the question, but a 2nd feels very reasonable. Or what about trading a 2012 1st for a pro-bowler that can help your team in 2010? BB has proved willing to be patient with his compensation. And if no one is willing to cough up high pick for compensation, I think BB can find something that works. I'm thinking back to the package of picks that New Orleans sent us for Tebucky Jones... it was a handful of mid and late round picks for a pretty flawed starter. Mankins is a much higher caliber player than Tebucky.

Whether a lot of teams are interested or not, I think most will low ball the Pats. I really doubt they would get a top pick. I also do not think they would trade now, doing what he apparently wants. THAT is really giving in and I do not see that happening. He is a higher caliber player, but this is a different situation and different times.

I don't know if the Nation needs to stress too much about this contract dispute. I'm disappointed-- Mankins has been one of my favorite players, steady and reliable-- but, meh, I'm already over it. The Pats have seen a lot of elite talent walk out the door at the peak of their game: Law, Milloy, Seymour, Branch. Sucks to lose them, but we cant pay everyone under the cap. I was really angry when cut Terry Glenn loose... seems completely silly in retrospect.

I am very disappointed as well and it has happened before that greed makes player's heads larger than life. I hate it..don't wish to see it, but it happens. Agents make the situation worse. I mean how many players would LOVE to be insulted with 35 million over 7 years? How much money would this clown be making if football wasn't a part of this? In tough ecomomic times to me he looks even worse and a TOTAL loser. I am over it as well...moving on.

In any case, the Mankins situation is not nearly as urgent as the Seymour or Branch situation were, in terms of roster depth. We'll miss having Mankins solidifying the spot, but really, a step-function downgrade at LG is not as catastrophic as DE or WR. The team can play through it. Kaczur at LG seems eminently reasonable, and eminently affordable. Plus we have some young players for depth at the spot.

I agree...it's not situationally as bad..not in the least.

Logan's a great player, a solid citizen and team player. But it looks like he not one of the guys that the Pats are going to come to terms with. More than anything, I'm just glad that we have so many good players coming into the 5th and 6th years of their contract, that legitimately deserve elite contracts. We lose Seymour, but that gives us the space to sign Wilfork. We may lose Moss next year, but that loss will hopefully make the Brady negotiations viable. So be it.

Great?? well almost there..but not there now. Solid citizen? Maybe....but a team player?? Sorry...when one is saying 35 million to a guard is an insult..the i in team is way off base.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

One thing Bill knows that fans often fail to recognize is that if you want to hurt a player who really loves playing the game, taking away his stage is even more effective than taking away his $$$. Believe me, if Seattle hadn't butted in Branch would have been back on the field by week 2. It's the same reason guys endure pay cuts to hang around.

Now there are some players who profess love of the game when it's really the $$$ or the lifestyle they love. Haynesworth and JaMarcus might be a couple of glaring examples of that kind of player. Mankins by all accounts isn't that totally self absorbed guy, so come September money aside it's gonna be hard for him to stay away from the game and harder still to not perform at a high level when surrounded by committed teamates who expect if not demand each others best efforts.

If it turns out he actually is that guy who can waltz in obliviously looking to collect his (now unfortunately meager) paycheck or his freedom, even they will know he didn't belong here anyway. Either way, life will go on. This team will play it's season, and Logan Mankins will either dismount his high horse and play it with them, or take his frustrations out on some poor unfortunate cows, or sign his tender and get traded to a team that offers us sufficient value for his services because we decided we don't want them anymore.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is an interesting read about how one RFA, a guy who was restricted last season as well, is handling his impasse with his team. They haven't even offered him a contract yet and he's reportedly one of the better LT's in the league and looking for a reasonable (given the position) $8M per. Has had some weight issues which his GM mentioned in a supposedly off the record fan chat last week...but they've since sat down and cleared the air. Even though they reduced his tender. Guy still shows up for team activities, just not on the field activities. Won't say if he plans to hold out of TC. He hopes they can resolve their impasse before it comes to that.

“I’m not going to mini-camp,” Penn said. “Mark and [head coach] Raheem [Morris] know that, we already talked about that. I’m not going. I’m a good guy. I don’t talk bad about the organization and I’m never going to start. From weeks and during the season, I want to be a Buc for the rest of my life if I can. It's not in my hands.

“You have to look at all these guys getting tendered. It’s their first year getting tendered. Only me and the guy from Houston got tendered two years in a row. I’m in a different boat than them. It happened to me twice in a row, so it’s kind of tough. I’m going to be patient, be calm and control what I can control. Everything that’s going on right now is out of my control. If we had a new [collective bargaining agreement] I would never have been in this position."

“You know me, I’m a nice guy. We have a small little fire right now. Hopefully no more gasoline gets thrown on it. I’m a good guy, so it’s going to be good.”

Someone should email this to Logan.

Penn Attends FanFest, Discusses Contract Situation | Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Pewter Report

 

[Pats726]

This is an interesting read about how one RFA, a guy who was restricted last season as well, is handling his impasse with his team. They haven't even offered him a contract yet and he's reportedly one of the better LT's in the league and looking for a reasonable (given the position) $8M per. Has had some weight issues which his GM mentioned in a supposedly off the record fan chat last week...but they've since sat down and cleared the air. Even though they reduced his tender. Guy still shows up for team activities, just not on the field activities. Won't say if he plans to hold out of TC. He hopes they can resolve their impasse before it comes to that.






Someone should email this to Logan.

Penn Attends FanFest, Discusses Contract Situation | Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Pewter Report

Good article..but you are quite right about it all...It will work out in the end one way or another

 

[mgteich]

Apparently you think that not giving in is more important to the team than a 2nd round 2011 draft pick. After all, you would not play Mankins after he shows up in October.

 

[rookBoston]

Whether a lot of teams are interested or not, I think most will low ball the Pats. I really doubt they would get a top pick.

Do we know what teams will offer? The niners spent the #17 overall pick on an OG this year. What do they hope they've drafted? Something materially better than Mankins? I doubt it. Would they have traded down, taken Mankins and another player, if that option had been available to them? Seems reasonable.

... it has happened before that greed makes player's heads larger than life. I hate it..don't wish to see it, but it happens. Agents make the situation worse. I mean how many players would LOVE to be insulted with 35 million over 7 years? How much money would this clown be making if football wasn't a part of this? In tough ecomomic times to me he looks even worse and a TOTAL loser. I am over it as well...moving on.

The fact that I will never see a $35MM paycheck in my lifetime doesn't make me mad at Mankins because he thinks it could be a $50MM paycheck. If I knew my employer would offering me 30% less than I could get from a competitor, I would be out the door too.

If by "tough economic times" you're saying that NFL players make too much money as it is... well, that's not Logan's fault... not sure why you would take it out on him. And anyway by the time this contract expires the recession will be long gone and forgotten.

The thing spoiling the relationship between player and team is the fact that Mankins is an RFA and isn't free to negotiate with other teams. The long term deal that he was offered represents the one big payday he'll ever see, the culmination of his entire football career. He's been playing under a rookie contract since 2005 for peanuts, he's 27 now and a seven year deal takes him pretty much to the end of his playing days. But as an RFA, he isn't at liberty to sound out the rest of the league to see whether this is a fair deal.

The way I see it, the Pats made Mankins their best long term offer based on how much they have against the cap. And, to be fair, they may not be entirely altruistic in their valuation of his contract... they'll offer what they can afford and if they can get him to sign a low-ball offer, then that's how Superbowls are won. He's disappointed. If he wants full value, and other teams are prepared to give him what he wants... well, then we need to wish him well and look to find his replacement. We have a young team and a ton of draft picks last year, this year and next year too. Not that hard.

The one thing I fault Mankins for is the way he's handled his frustration. If he's decided that the Pats are not going to give him the long term contract he wants and expects, he should just sign his tender, play out his RFA year and get his big UFA money next year when he does have full negotiating rights, instead of going to the media and bashing ownership at a time when he is still under the team's control.

Great?? well almost there..but not there now. Solid citizen? Maybe....but a team player?? Sorry...when one is saying 35 million to a guard is an insult..the i in team is way off base.

I suppose we should wish that all our pro-bowlers were ready to play out their entire careers for the Patriots, and accept less from us than they could get on the open market. But, as a practical matter, not every player is going to fit under the budget, and not every player is going to take a home-town discount. Does that mean we have to hate them for it? Tearing him apart now and criticizing his game sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[spacecrime]

No more draft picks please, if he gets traded it has to be for another player.

What do you have against draft picks? Wilfork is a player we got as a result of a trade. Most of the players on the team right now were once draft picks, many of which came to us as part of a trade.

 

[spacecrime]

Mankins is available at approximately $200K per game whenever he shows up. The patriots have determined the rate of pay.

He woukld have gotten $200,000 per game if he had signed the tender. Now it is a little over $90,000 a game.

This is terrific insurance for a linemen getting hurt during the year.

Mankins doesn't count agaisnt the roster. If we have NO one on the team who cna play left guard (hard to imagine), then the Pats can give mankins the $$$. If the Pats OLine is competitive then they can keep Mankins as unbelievably cheap insurance.

As far as compensation goes, no team offered up a first and a third when he was available for months. Now that his salary demands are so high that $7 mil a year is an insult, no team is likely to offer a first round plack plus $8+ mil a year, so a second is reasonable to assume as a trave value.

Since he will likely garner a third round comp pick, I believe it is worth it not to trade him but keep him as 2010 Oline injury insurance.