Making the Case for Suh (Cons too)

[VJCPatriot]

Suh looks like a 4-3 penetrating defensive tackle, not a 3-4 defensive end. He's going to be outstanding for some team, but I don't know if he fits into our D.

YouTube - Ndamukong Suh Highlights Nebraska 2009

It looks to me like Suh plays the penetrating DT role, while the other DT hangs back and holds up against the run. Suh might turn into the next Warren Sapp... but would a 1 gap penetrating DT fit our 2 gap scheme? I'm just not sure, nor would I put two 1st round picks on the line and a hefty contract on the table for the privilege of finding out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Suh looks like a 4-3 penetrating defensive tackle, not a 3-4 defensive end. He's going to be outstanding for some team, but I don't know if he fits into our D.

YouTube - Ndamukong Suh Highlights Nebraska 2009

It looks to me like Suh plays the penetrating DT role, while the other DT hangs back and holds up against the run. Suh might turn into the next Warren Sapp... but would a 1 gap penetrating DT fit our 2 gap scheme? I'm just not sure, nor would I put two 1st round picks on the line and a hefty contract on the table for the privilege of finding out.

Ask Seymour, Warren, Green, and Wright...the only DTs NE signed who I know played in two-gap systems were Le Kevin Smith and Titus Adams out of Nebraska, and Darryl Richard out of GA. Tech. You'll note Suh is a Nebraska boy, watching their bowl game and the Big 12 championship you can see where the DL took turns being the "spy" while the others penetrated, which is why Crick is drawing attention for next season. And why I have Turner flagged as a late round/UDFA target for OLB. Suh is a fit for the Pats. His price on the other hand...

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Suh looks like a 4-3 penetrating defensive tackle, not a 3-4 defensive end. He's going to be outstanding for some team, but I don't know if he fits into our D.

YouTube - Ndamukong Suh Highlights Nebraska 2009

It looks to me like Suh plays the penetrating DT role, while the other DT hangs back and holds up against the run. Suh might turn into the next Warren Sapp... but would a 1 gap penetrating DT fit our 2 gap scheme? I'm just not sure, nor would I put two 1st round picks on the line and a hefty contract on the table for the privilege of finding out.

Maybe you watched a different You Tube video than the this one. When I look at this video, I see a DT that reads and reacts. Very little flying upfield at the snap of the ball.

Except for being a bit short, he is almost perfect as a RDE in our defense. Instant PLAYMAKER. 23 TFL's from a double teamed DT. Unbelievable! I don't get where this up the field stuff comes from.

 

[Defsoul]

Okay, let's see if Suh could drop out of the top 5:

#1 St. Louis Rams: Sam Bradford - There is a chance that they will finally draft a new franchise quarterback.
#2 Detroit Lions: Russel Okung - They picked up some veterans to bolster their defensive line and may chose to upgrade their offensive line instead.
#3 Tampa Bay Buccs: Gerald McCoy - Mayock lists McCoy ahead of Suh and the Sooner might be a better fit for the Tampa 2.
#4 Washington Redskins: Jimmy Claußen - They invested a lot of money and Haynesworth and need a new franchise quarterback or left tackle instead of another high priced defensive tackle.
#5 KC Chiefs: Eric Berry - They already have a lot of money invested in the defensive line and could use some help in the secondary or an offensive playmaker.

I don't think Suh would fall past Seattle at #6, so the Patriots would have to move ahead of them. KC looks like the best target in that case. Last year Mangini traded Clevelands #5 for the Jets' #17, #52, Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff and Abram Elam. I guess it would atleast take our #22, #44 and #47 to move up. Would you make that trade to get Suh?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Okay, let's see if Suh could drop out of the top 5:

#1 St. Louis Rams: Sam Bradford - There is a chance that they will finally draft a new franchise quarterback.
#2 Detroit Lions: Russel Okung - They picked up some veterans to bolster their defensive line and may chose to upgrade their offensive line instead.
#3 Tampa Bay Buccs: Gerald McCoy - Mayock lists McCoy ahead of Suh and the Sooner might be a better fit for the Tampa 2.
#4 Washington Redskins: Jimmy Claußen - They invested a lot of money and Haynesworth and need a new franchise quarterback or left tackle instead of another high priced defensive tackle.
#5 KC Chiefs: Eric Berry - They already have a lot of money invested in the defensive line and could use some help in the secondary or an offensive playmaker.

I don't think Suh would fall past Seattle at #6, so the Patriots would have to move ahead of them. KC looks like the best target in that case. Last year Mangini traded Clevelands #5 for the Jets' #17, #52, Kenyon Coleman, Brett Ratliff and Abram Elam. I guess it would atleast take our #22, #44 and #47 to move up. Would you make that trade to get Suh?

No this draft is so deep that first round talent will be available deep into the second round. But I would trade #22 and the Raiders 2011 first rounder to Detroit for him. I might even be convinced to throw in a 7th rounder from 2010 as well.

 

[jeffbiologist]

As deep of a draft as it is supposed to be I'd take the bird in the hand over 3in the bush(2010 #1, 2011 #1, Brace). I agree with the other poster about PLAYMAKERS, this defense just doesnt have em. This guy is fluid, not a boom or bust type ala Ken Sims. Where we draft and how we pay free agents we dont get many chances at guys like this and BB knows it. If we still believe you win and lose with your DL this trade would be a no-brainer if we can include Brace. If he was was the guy we wanted him to be Wilfork likely wouldnt be here now, right?

 

[furry]

If we're gonna trade away the picks and spend the cash it would take to get Suh I'd much rather we did it on a Brandon Marshall / Vincent Jackson

Suh will be great but I can't see value there for us

 

[jeffbiologist]

If we're gonna trade away the picks and spend the cash it would take to get Suh I'd much rather we did it on a Brandon Marshall / Vincent Jackson

Suh will be great but I can't see value there for us

To compare a franchise DL to ANY WR, never mind the Divas you mentioned.....blasphemy. Point being if we cant get a guy like Suh with our picks next year, exactly when do you think we get another chance at such a DL stud?? If you look at next years' draft class and cant find someone like Suh....to replace Seymour...in a UNCAPPED YEAR you almost have to trade up to get him. Best bet with the Lions' pick as they have let it known they want to trade down.

 

[VJCPatriot]

It doesn't make any financial sense. BB traded down from #7 to AVOID having to pay a high salary. He still got his guy, Mayo, at a reasonable price. NO WAY the Pats pay #1 money when rookie salaries and bonus monies are still uncapped.

 

[mgteich]

If you're counting trades, we ended up with Meriweather, Moss and Welker.

Ummm. . . . The Pats started the draft with 24, 28, and 93(?).

 

[jeffbiologist]

It doesn't make any financial sense. BB traded down from #7 to AVOID having to pay a high salary. He still got his guy, Mayo, at a reasonable price. NO WAY the Pats pay #1 money when rookie salaries and bonus monies are still uncapped.

You dont know he traded down to avoid the salary, but I will admit they targetted Mayo and put his VALUE lower so they traded down. We dont as yet know where they VALUE a guy like Suh. But if you have a chance to use our accumulated chips to get a guy that you think has VALUE at the top of the draft I say do it. Recent drafts have suffered due to quantity over quality, its hard to argue it hasnt. If you have a team like Detroit or St Louis, who now have several top draft picks strangling your cap(last year and likely next year)it makes more sense than ever to lower trade demands for multiple lower picks. And if you are the Patriots who have seen more playmakers walk out the door than walk in, I say do what you can while you can.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

To compare a franchise DL to ANY WR, never mind the Divas you mentioned.....blasphemy. Point being if we cant get a guy like Suh with our picks next year, exactly when do you think we get another chance at such a DL stud?? If you look at next years' draft class and cant find someone like Suh....to replace Seymour...in a UNCAPPED YEAR you almost have to trade up to get him. Best bet with the Lions' pick as they have let it known they want to trade down.

I agree 100%. If you are going to do it, this is the year.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I have a much better risk/reward scenario

draft clifton geathers in the 4th round

 

[upstater1]

I am not a fan of moving up for Suh BUT I would not be worried about the whole "he would cost a ton" thing.

It's an uncapped year. You could frontload his contract and reduce the average of the other years by 25%.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I have a much better risk/reward scenario

draft clifton geathers in the 4th round

I finally got to watch some tape of this kid. It was hard to find because he only has 17 career starts.

First impression, much better against the run than the pass.

If he gets too high, he gets blown off the LOS like a leaf in a strong breeze.

As a 3-4 DE, he will need a year or two of development work before he can start.

I can see why BB would be interested in this kid.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I am not a fan of moving up for Suh BUT I would not be worried about the whole "he would cost a ton" thing.

It's an uncapped year. You could frontload his contract and reduce the average of the other years by 25%.

I think he is worth whatever it takes to go get him, period.

 

[Nonentity]

I think he is worth whatever it takes to go get him, period.

Herschel Walker.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Herschel Walker.

If we are talking draft picks and not players.

Mark Sanchez
S Greene

 

[Nonentity]

Brady Quinn
Eric Weddle

 

[jays52]

Suh is as good a 4/5 tech prospect as I have ever seen. He looks like a better version of Seymour (projected, of course). There is the ammo, and I promise Detroit wants out of that pick. It may not take as much as most think to go get Suh. 22 and the NE '11 pick with some mid round picks thrown in as well may get it done.

That would enable them to get Suh as well as adress the joker and sam in rd 2. I'd make it happen within reason.