Welcome to PatsFans.com

Making the Case for Suh (Cons too)

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by robertweathers, Mar 9, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,744
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +44 / 1 / -0

    I understand that it is a BIG gamble to trade up and go after an unproven talent at the NFL level, but I'll make the argument to trade up for this kid anyway.

    Pros

    1. Throughout the 2000s, the Pats not only had solid locker room guys, but had top-level talent in a number of areas. Adding Suh would give the D-line incredible talent for years to come that would be home grown.

    2. He would be ready for an extension when Warren (2013) and Wilfork (2014) are up.

    3. Schematically, in his prime Seymour meant a lot to this defense. (taking on double-teams, allowing OLBs and other DTs matched up 1:1 with players on the o-line, generated decent pressure, great vs the run). By adding a talent like Suh, the team would take a quantum leap forward in that department.

    4. You have the 22nd pick this year. You have OAK #1 next year. You have 3 #2s. You have (budget & cap considerations in 2010 notwithstanding) the ability to dole out a good chunk of change to the kid without (provided the deal is structured properly) experiencing long term cap-ramifications. Not sure how many picks it would take, but IMO the Pats have the currency to do a deal.

    Cons

    1. With a deep draft, the team can fill a number or areas with high-quality talent.

    2. He'd cost a ton and may limit the team in other areas

    3. Already drafted Brace and Pryor. May be seen as a admission of "missing" on Brace (as if BB cares)

    4. Suh's agent is Eugene Parker. Parker and the Pats have a rocky history. He is Seymour's agent too.

    5. If the kid becomes the next Ken Sims, the team is screwed for years.


    Looking forward to the thoughts....

    RW
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  2. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    way too much resources required between draft picks used and the $$ it would take to sign him

    suh or odrick for 1/8th the price plus 4 other potential starters as well as $$$ to sign a FA

    the pats would have been better off giving peppers 15M / yr

    not to mention the fact that suh is not nearly as mobile as seymour is/was
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,626
    Likes Received:
    216
    Ratings:
    +509 / 13 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    You can add to the Pros that Detroit really wants to move down and Jim Schwartz is a Belichick guy so there's a good relationship there and a team looking to move down. We could probably do it for our #1 this year and next IMO.

    That said, it would just cost too much money.
  4. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    How would it make since to trade half your draft to get Suh, and pay him more guaranteed money then Peppers got, when you still wouldnt have any outside passrush.

    Plus this would never happen.
  5. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,307
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    In one of the deepest drafts in recent history, one in which the Patriots hold 4 valuable picks in the first two rounds, you really think that they ought to abandon it all to take one guy on the defensive line? Even with Wilfork, Warren, Wright, and Pryor under contract, with the possible emergence of Brace?

    I'm sorry, I've thought about the Pats moving up to take McCoy or Suh, but there just doesn't seem to be any way to justify it.
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    5,107
    Likes Received:
    185
    Ratings:
    +491 / 2 / -3

    If we were one good defensive lineman away from having no holes, this would be a consideration. But we have too many needs on offense AND defense to consider going all Ditka on this and trading away the farm for one player.
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,850
    Likes Received:
    233
    Ratings:
    +626 / 11 / -6

    I'm just curious here: if the Pats saw this draft the way they did the 2007 draft (a whole lot of meh), could you see them doing it?
  8. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,744
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +44 / 1 / -0

    All great points...

    According to the NFL Draft Trade Value Chart, to acquire the #2 pick (2600 points), the Pats would either need to give up their first 4 picks this year and their 4th rounder) or give up their #1 this year, their #1 next year and either their 44th or 47th selection this year.

    Very expensive to acquire picks. Very expensive for money. Very high-risk/reward.

    http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,897
    Likes Received:
    129
    Ratings:
    +339 / 22 / -2

    We entered the 2007 draft with one pick in the first three rounds. We drafted Meriweather.
    If we do as well in our 2010 choices in the first three rounds, we could have an improved defense for the next four years.

  10. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,307
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Honestly, I don't. Belichick is clearly a value guy, and giving up what he'd have to just to get a single player who will require an enormous deal to sign goes against the very definition of 'value'.
  11. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,744
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +44 / 1 / -0

    There were certainly a number of misses in the 07 draft, but in hindsight, in looking at the players that were theoretically within the Pats striking distance (but Pats didn't have a lot to trade in terms of picks to move up), there were some pretty decent players to be had.

    Revis
    Leon Hall
    Patrick Willis
    Timmons
    Bowe
    Spencer
    Meachem

    All in all, BW was a fine pick. Can't really complain.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  12. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    18,583
    Likes Received:
    290
    Ratings:
    +751 / 6 / -11

    #75 Jersey

    Not in the top 5, but who's to say he won't drop? second question. Is he Seymour? He's 6'4", does he project as a 3-4 DE?

    If the answer is yes and he drops to the level we can trade a 1 and a 2, I might go (haven't seen him).

    Thing is, if he's a monster DE starter, a lot of pass rushers will look like all pros, plus our line collapsers and rush defense improve.

    If he's even iffie as a Seymour replacement, why are we even talking about this?
  13. hawk

    hawk Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I think Suh will be a great player and would be a tremendous addition to the Patriots. I also think we would have to give up far too much to get him. Years ago I thought Steve Emtman would be a great pro lineman, but due to injuries he didn't pan out. The risk to trade up for Suh is too great regardless of the potential reward.
  14. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,744
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +44 / 1 / -0

    According to many draftniks, hes the best DL prospect in 10 years.

    Supposedly, Suh can play the 1, 3 and 5 technique. He'll need some coaching and he'll make some mistakes, but it seems b/c he was asked to play several techniques, he could make the transition to a 3-4 DT/DE

    The answer seems to be a yes.

    He can do it all. Run, Pass rush. Collapse the pocket...

    IMO every top pick is iffy.

    Another reason that I throw this out here is that the Pats will have 2 #1s next year (OAKs and their own). As I said, they have the currency to do this.
  15. JFK

    JFK Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,025
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    If he isn't gone in the first 5 picks, we should try to get him.
    The kid can play
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,850
    Likes Received:
    233
    Ratings:
    +626 / 11 / -6

    Ummm. . . . The Pats started the draft with 24, 28, and 93(?).
  17. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    7,744
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +44 / 1 / -0

    He won't slide. He'll be gone in the top 3 (I think?)

    Another concern is that he has had two knee surgeries already. One was an ACL and the other a meniscus tear. Seems to have come back fine, but it's a concern...
  18. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    12,376
    Likes Received:
    30
    Ratings:
    +53 / 1 / -4

    Sorry, not going to pay top 2 money for a position that is already manned by the best 3-4 NT in the business right now. The cost in picks and financial committment is way not worth it. If 2011 does usher in the age of the ROOKIE CAP, then picks in that draft are a LOT more money efficient than 2010 picks, although this looks to be a bumper crop year in terms of depth and talent, thanks to all the Juniors coming out who are thinking the same thing -- I come out in 2011 and I'm not getting those insane 1st round contracts and signing bonuses.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,756
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +15 / 2 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I think you are spot on with this analysis. Quality trumps Quantity.

    Suh is the best player in this draft and he is more than capable of playing the one position on our defense that is in desperate need of a PLAYMAKER. Let's face it, playmaking 3-4 DE's are very rare. Rarer than pas rushers if you do the numbers.

    BB was a genius in the last decade because he always had a DE and NT that both commanded double teams. That left the remaining Pats 9 defenders to account for 7 opposing offensive players.

    There are other DE's in this draft, but NONE are playmakers, all are second tier type players, like Warren, Green or Wright.

    I would trade our 2010 #1, and the Raiders 2011 #1 for a chance to jump up and take Suh. And I think with as weak as this QB crop is, that if Bradford goes #1, the teams at #2 or #3 would go for this trade in a heartbeat.

    Does BB have the stomach and the wallet to be this bold?
  20. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,850
    Likes Received:
    233
    Ratings:
    +626 / 11 / -6

    Except that BB's philosophy isn't about quality or quantity per se. It's about added value.

    If Wilfork were still holding out around draft day, I could see it happening. But with Wilfork in the fold, I'm just not at all convinced that Suh would add enough value to this team to justify the cost.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>