The case for for drafting WR Zay Flowers

[PowerRunRevival]

I watched some Zay highlights and like what I saw. He is really nifty with the ball in his hands. He has a lot of Barry Sanders type moves, at least against college DBs. Has he played much against the top SEC CBs?

Not really, the best out of conference team BC plays is Notre Dame. The only SEC team they played while Zay was there was Missouri (who they beat after the Missouri coach made fun of Massachusetts football).

 

[State]

From a value standpoint, #14 is a reach, about 5 - 10 too slots too high depending on who you ask. Then there is the risk of another team coveting him. Green Bay, Pittsburgh, LA and Baltimore could all conceivably take him.

One of my favorite draft scenarios has us moving down a few spots, picking up a 3rd, drafting Flowers, then packaging the 3rd with our 2nd and a 4th to move back up and draft Harrison or Wright at the bottom of round 1.

How about this?

And then we have 46 still available for an OT like Matthew Bergeron or Jaelyn Duncan.

 

[Username]

How about this?

And then we have 46 still available for an OT like Matthew Bergeron or Jaelyn Duncan.

I'm not sure on pick values, but I don't think we'd be giving pick 76 too? 20 & 37 seems like enough to love to 14, but they wouldn't be getting another pick back

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I'm not sure on pick values, but I don't think we'd be giving pick 76 too? 20 & 37 seems like enough to love to 14, but they wouldn't be getting another pick back

I thought so too then I looked it up and according to the espn trade chart the Pats win a 20 and 37 for 14 and 76 trade.

NFL Draft Pick Value Calculator

Compare total trade values and calculate gain and loss percent of trade points or look up pick values. Calculate NFL trade pick values between traders. Table of NFL draft pick values in value chart. Each draft pick is assigned a point value as a reference to compare the relative value of picks...

www.calculatorsoup.com

I feel like the mock draft simulators give up too much value in trades and it has skewed my perspective. The draft chart has been helpful in getting me to check those perspectives.

 

[scott99]

Eight guys ran faster than him at the Combine, mostly in the 4.3 range. 16 other WRs ran in the 4.4n range. 9 CBs ran faster than him. 4.42 used to be special but not anymore.

But the 3-cone is probably more relevant for a WR and JSN is head and shoulders above anyone else in the 3-cone. Zay Flowers elected not to run the 3-cone which make me think that his 3-cone was pedestrian enough so that his agent told him not to run it at the Combine.

Sure Zay Flowers is probably a great character guy and gives great interviews, but I would hate to see the Patriots use a first on him...or a second. I think (but what the hell do I know?) that JSN is worth a pick at 14...but we all know what will happen; the Patriots will try to get cute and trade down and hope that JSN will still be at 21 or whenever. Don't count on it!

4.42 is blazing fast. And also if you watch the film, he looks faster than 4.42 on the field. He’s just explosive, he just has that extra gear. If he gets past you, nobody is catching him. He’s quick too, not just straight line speed. I just imagine BOB coming up with some amazing schemes for Flowers.

Also, having Thornton and Flowers on the field at the same time, that would finally give some Defensive Coordinators something they would have to worry about.

Bottom line, what they’ve done in free agency, is just not enough. All they’ve really done is replace the players that left. Now personally, I feel Smith-Schuster and Gesicki are improvements, but more is needed, more explosiveness. Been saying this for years, need more explosiveness.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

4.42 is blazing fast. And also if you watch the film, he looks faster than 4.42 on the field. He’s just explosive, he just has that extra gear. If he gets past you, nobody is catching him. He’s quick too, not just straight line speed. I just imagine BOB coming up with some amazing schemes for Flowers.

Also, having Thornton and Flowers on the field at the same time, that would finally give some Defensive Coordinators something they would have to worry about.

Bottom line, what they’ve done in free agency, is just not enough. All they’ve really done is replace the players that left. Now personally, I feel Smith-Schuster and Gesicki are improvements, but more is needed, more explosiveness. Been saying this for years, need more explosiveness.

Davante Parker ran a 4.45 sec 40. Is adding a guy that runs 0.03 sec faster than Parker really going to make a significant difference?

 

[Zuma]

IMO Flowers is too small. Drafting him in the 1st round is too risky.

 

[TheBeers]

I like Flowers, he does a lot of things well, he's explosive, good speed. I just don't love him in the 1st. I think he'll be a good player though.

 

[Wozzy]

A smurf WR in the first…. god help us… no.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

A smurf WR in the first…. god help us… no.

Not a #14 - I agree. Late 1st is OK IMO.

 

[Wozzy]

Not a #14 - I agree. Late 1st is OK IMO.

I don’t want a WR in the first or even second, early is too risky for a position with a failure rate that high. Take an OT, DT, DE, TE or LB… just not WR.

Take a WR in the 3rd or 4th, take two… and go for some size/speed. We have plenty of average speed guys, let’s raise the bar a little.

 

[scott99]

Unfortunately a lot of you guys are uninformed when it comes to Flowers, to compare his playing speed to Parker’s playing speed is just ridiculous. He’s closer to Jaylen Waddle playing speed than to Parker.

Secondly, Flowers is moving up the draft rankings like a bullet, those who want to trade down and take him, he may not even make it to 14. Chris Simms has him as his #1 receiver, and compares him to Antonio Brown (talent wise), which I can see that when I watch film. He was a team captain (which Belichick values), and plays hard and fast, but knows how to avoid big hits. He’s also up to 185 from 172, so he added muscle.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Unfortunately a lot of you guys are uninformed when it comes to Flowers, to compare his playing speed to Parker’s playing speed is just ridiculous. He’s closer to Jaylen Waddle playing speed than to Parker.

They both ran the 40 at the Combine with computer timing. Flowers ran a 4.42, Parker ran a 4.45, and Waddle didn't run the 40 due to an ankle injury. The 40 reflects "long speed" to threaten the deep third of the field. The difference of 0.03 secs is not much and it is not ridiculous to compare Flowers and Parker's long speed. You state "playing speed" so maybe you are thinking quickness, 10 yard or short shuttle or 3cone, but that is not Parker's game, and it is doubtful threatening the deep third of the field will be Flowers game.

A 4.42 40 is not close to Waddle's speed. Based on GPS, Waddle was the fastest receiver in college in 2021. If he ran the 40, Waddle would have been closer to 4.30.

 

[VJCPatriot]

How about this?

And then we have 46 still available for an OT like Matthew Bergeron or Jaelyn Duncan.

If we trade down and get both Flowers and Forbes, that would be a really nice scenario for us in terms of both value and talent.

I am still super skeptical the Patriots can draft a good WR.

But we'll just have to see because they haven't gone after one in trade or free agency except for Schuster-Smith who was just a replacement for Meyers.

 

[VJCPatriot]

They both ran the 40 at the Combine with computer timing. Flowers ran a 4.42, Parker ran a 4.45, and Waddle didn't run the 40 due to an ankle injury. The 40 reflects "long speed" to threaten the deep third of the field. The difference of 0.03 secs is not much and it is not ridiculous to compare Flowers and Parker's long speed. You state "playing speed" so maybe you are thinking quickness, 10 yard or short shuttle or 3cone, but that is not Parker's game, and it is doubtful threatening the deep third of the field will be Flowers game.

A 4.42 40 is not close to Waddle's speed. Based on GPS, Waddle was the fastest receiver in college in 2021. If he ran the 40, Waddle would have been closer to 4.30.

Waddle has actual blazing speed. Flowers is more quick than fast.

I'd say Flowers is comparable in style to JSN, but I feel like JSN is still a significant cut above as both a route runner and creator of RAC after the catch. I don't fear JSN failing with the Patriots. He measured in at a healthy 6'1, 200 lbs at the NFL combine.

I do fear Flowers not reaching his potential. Size concerns for Flowers are the same as with Twiggy Thornton. Actually the concerns are even worse. He measured in at only 5'10 172 lbs.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Waddle has actual blazing speed. Flowers is more quick than fast.

I'd say Flowers is comparable in style to JSN, but I feel like JSN is still a significant cut above as both a route runner and creator of RAC after the catch. I don't fear JSN failing with the Patriots. He measured in at a healthy 6'1, 200 lbs at the NFL combine.

I do fear Flowers not reaching his potential. Size concerns for Flowers are the same as with Twiggy Thornton. Actually the concerns are even worse. He measured in at only 5'10 172 lbs.

Agreed, except the comparison to Thornton. Flowers is mostly a slot guy, and Thornton is mostly an outside guy. Being slight while on the outside has proven to be OK (Waddle, Olave), while being slight mostly working in the slot is different. You are comparing a slot to an outside guy, apples and oranges.

 

[State]

Okay. I’m in. Do a slight trade down from 14 if possible.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Okay. I’m in. Do a slight trade down from 14 if possible.

I'm tired of hype videos with guys in shorts.

Show it to me on the football field in full pads.

This type of actual film breakdown is more useful to me.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I'm tired of hype videos with guys in shorts.

Nkeal Harry Workouts beach Videos are the best

Show it to me on the football field in full pads.

This type of actual film breakdown is more useful to me.