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Looking forward to Groves' performance

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PonyExpress, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    If Groves really is the ahtlete he is rumored to be, he is a definite wild card for the Pats. That would show he has recovered from his dislocated toe.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  3. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    I believe So far they've got Groves at a 4.5 or 4.52, and Gholston at a 4.64.

    Groves forty time is very good for a 6'3" 250lbs LB, and that's combined with his 30 reps of 225lbs. I'll say that I know he's run even faster though, as he's previously run a 4.43 for NFL scouts. I'd be very happy to see him playing LB for the Patriots.

    Also, Chris Long looks like a freak, and if the Dolphins take anyone at No.1 it should be Chris.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  4. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Groves has been a lesser option (after Gholston). An SEC player is always one to consider (I'm partial :)). The only real questions about him and other candidates is the issue of playing in space, coachablilty, smarts, etc. Physically and athletically -- he's strong and fast. For him to do so well here ought to remove any doubt of work ethic issues.

    Others who's names have been dropped as options are Avril and Crable. Both timed at 4.56 -- not too shabby.

    Not to detour the thread, but I do like the idea of CB first in a tradedown -- then one of the edge rushers to follow.
  5. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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  6. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Groves official forty time is actually 4.57.

    Here are the official times of some other prospects:

    Gholston: 4.67
    Chris Long 4.75
    Crable: 4.64
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Where would Groves fit in our system? ILB or OLB?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  8. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Rookie

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    Groves would probably be an OLB in our system. I didn't get to see how he did in any of the drills at the combine yet, but it seems like he'd be more of a natural fit in a 3 - 4 than either Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

    Wouldn't Groves be available in the second round? As well as Cason?
  9. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    I'd pick Groves over Gholston. Groves has experience with his hand off the ground (and played much better as a OLB than a DE), is an absolute physical freak (a 4.57 is a disappointing time for him, he's run as fast as 4.42 while weighing 255 lbs.), and notably comes from the best conference in the land (I'm extremely wary of any players from the Big 10, including Ohio State, as they tend to bust more often than others, while SEC players tend to make better pros than any other conference).

    Though it looks like the Patriots at 7 would have the pick of either (unless the Jets take one), I'd take Groves first. The only question about him is his consistency and whether he can pick up the Patriots system. If he interviews well, he shoots up the board Mamula style (and Mamula would've made a great 3-4 OLB).

    FWIW, Sporting News has Long as the first overall pick, Groves going to the Jets at #6, and Jenkins to the Patriots at #7 (again, I want nothing to do with Ohio State players, so that isn't something I'd be happy with).
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  10. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Avril could be a better value pick than Gholston and Groves considering his experience playing both linebacker and defensive end. With the possibility of the New England Patriots trading down from number 7, the New England Patriots could possibly obtain an additional second round draft pick.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cliff-avril?id=1330
  11. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Did Groves do the 3-cone, shuttle , and VJ? Can't find those numbers.
  12. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    Avril's an interesting guy if the Patriots choose to go another route with the 7th pick or trade down. But Groves played this last year almost exclusively at OLB.
  13. PatsandTrojans55

    PatsandTrojans55 Rookie

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    I believe he will be an exact AD Clone. he will be a speed rusher on 3rd down opposite Colvin but a regular at OLB with a slow transition to ILB at times and a regular on special teams.
  14. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I just saw Gholston''s agility numbers. 7.12 and 4.40 are very respectable at 266 lbs. Combined with his 35.5 leap, 4.67 40, 37 reps, and college production, Gholston is an absolute no brainer and I would be there with bells on if he is conceivably available at #7. I have no more doubts about Gholston. None.
  15. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    He's more like a faster and more powerful Colvin. He's also better against the run.
  16. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    Gholston is beginning to grow on me. He has the speed and jump off the edge, can immediately be a 3rd down pass rusher, and has the size to migrate inside in a few years. It is so much harder to find a pass rusher than a CB for our system it would be a no brainer. I can now see other teams liking him too, and wouldnt be surprised to see DMF/Ryan/and even Dorsey dropping a bit. Question is now do you like him there at 7 or do you trade down?? The decision to trade down just got tougher.....
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm curious also. Groves is high on my list. What about all of you? Let's put another way. If Gholston were gone at #6, how would you all feel about getting Groves? Wouldn't he be an instant upgrade to Woods, and a major future contributer? Now, after we all say how much we like Groves, we should consider the comparison to Gholston once again.

  18. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Simply stated, by "lesser option" I'm talking about rankings. Everyone and their grandmother has had Gholston ranked as a top 10 player. And some here have even mocked him to the Jets at #6, worried that he may not make it to the Pats at #7. Groves in no way has been ranked that high . He's been consistently projected as a R2 prospect (before the Combine). Therefore Groves, Crable, Avril, Robertson, or anyone else thought of as "tweeners" -- are all lesser options than Gholston (the higher ranked player).

    In terms of who fits best for the Pats -- I really don't know (YET). I like Groves, as well as everyone else from the above list (as well as a few others I'm still evaluating). And every one of them has their weaknesses. There's much more to consider than just who's the best pass rusher. From the DE to OLB conversion-types -- I need to know if they can play in space (LB duties). From the OLB to DE conversion-types -- I need to know if they can handle the OTs of the league at the POA -- game in and game out.

    Not to mention intangible qualities -- character, smarts, coachability, team player, etc.

    Size, 40 times, agility drills are all important to playing the position. But as you can see -- they're to be factored in to a much larger equation.

    Post Combine and Pro Days, some of these prospects will solidify their projections after rising and falling. Groves is already climbing...we'll see how far, and have a better idea of what's required to select him -- if he's the one destined for the Pats.
  19. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    After hearing Groves had one of the fastest ten splits in the history of the Indy Combine I highly doubt he's going to be around any later than 14th-16th overall, especially considering he also put up 30 reps, and posted a 4.57 forty.

    That burst and overall speed is something I'd love to have at OLB for NE.
  20. Seneschal2

    Seneschal2 Rookie

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    Did you read his interview over at nfldraftscout? Look at this:

    :rocker:
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