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Looking forward to Groves' performance

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PonyExpress, Feb 25, 2008.

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  1. Crazyeechrispats1

    Crazyeechrispats1 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    How as a fan would you all feel and the impossible happened and the Patriots drafted Gholston, then used half their draft to trade back in the draft to snatch groves and be set at outside linebacker for years to come.
    Then used the middle rounds to grab defensive backs how would you guys feel about that.
    Even though it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of occuring.
     
  2. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    I would say the Patriots cornerbacks aside from Ellis Hobbs would be the worst in the NFL.
     
  3. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Groves struggled at outside linebacker:

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quentin-groves?id=240

    Groves played linebacker vs. Tennessee Tech, Georgia and Alabama at the end of 2007 season, but struggled with the new rush and pass concepts (needs to convince scouts he can adapt to his new role as a hybrid OLB/DE).
     
  4. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    I would rather trade down and grab another second round draft pick.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  5. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    You don't mince any words. This is also my impression when I look

    at the cornerbacks under contract: Hobbs, Mixon, Richardson, and

    Spann. Dom Capers better be studying up on alchemy.
     
  6. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    As much as I'm drooling over Gholston, I realize that the best interest of the Patriots is to trade down from number 7 at all costs and pick up another second round draft pick. The Patriots number one priority this year is to select a cornerback (preferably two within the first three rounds) since the best available cornerbacks this year have been tagged outside of Asante Samuel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  7. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Few notes here:

    First I'll quote other areas of that report...

    So, that very report (from nfldraftscout.com) states the same things I've been saying. They even project him as a 3-4 OLB, and compare him to some of the better 3-4 pass rushing OLB's in the NFL. That report also repeats my contention that he was coming off an injury (dislocated toes) when Auburn tried shifting him to OLB. I don't really think you can fully gage his potential at 3-4 OLB from his performances in those games, considering he was injured. Also, it's going to take any player some period of adjustment when switching positions. And, his role in NE's defense would actually be more similar to playing DE, than playing OLB in a 4-3.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  8. chowder

    chowder On the Game Day Roster

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    don't worry, Malcolm Jenkins is staying at Ohio State another year, but I wouldn't wan't either Jenkins because Mike Jenkins seems inconsistent too. I'd rather have one of the other corners if we go that route for #7. the more i hear about Groves the more impressed I am with him. Anybody remember AJ Hawk's 40 time, because Groves seems to be in that range too?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  9. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Pro Bowl Player

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    Unfortunately I don't like the idea of waiting until the second round, especially the bottom of the second round, to select the Patriots first cornerback in the 2008 NFL Draft.

    Meanwhile, Atlanta Falcons DeAngelo Hall wants $10 million a year along with soon to be former Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel. Cornerbacks in unrestricted free agency and those who wish to be traded are starting to lose their minds.
     
  10. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Question, what was Groves official weight at the combine? I was just looking at footballsfuture.com and their combine section has Groves weighing in at 259lbs at the combine. If that is his true weight then his forty, ten split, broad (10'), and short shuttle are slightly more impressive (I thought he was 250lbs even, not a hair under 260lbs). That's also about the perfect size for a 3-4 OLB.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2008
  11. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Practice Squad Player

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    I think that if Gholston is available at 7 we take him.

    If not, I would not be surprised to see us trade down to 12 for Denver's 1st and 2nd round picks(which, according to the draft chart is almost equal in value).

    We'd then be able to either take the second best corner as New Orleans will probably take a corner unless they get Asante or Groves I suppose. Though some may feel 12 is too high for Groves. That gives us two second round picks of course.

    That would give us a ton of options with those picks. We could go:

    CB - OT - CB or LB - OT - CB or LB - CB - CB

    I do think the best remedy for a secondary is immense and quick pressure, as we saw from the Giants.
     
  12. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Practice Squad Player

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    Oh, and Groves came in at 6'3 250.
     
  13. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yea, link?

    FootballsFuture.com has his COMBINE weight at 259lbs. I'm not talking about his listed weight on a profile, but his actual weight at the combine.

    http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/combineDL.html
     
  14. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Practice Squad Player

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    Ee it won't let me post a link... but it was from NFL.com. Though, now I'm beginning to doubt if NFL.com updated their player profiles...
     
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It's funny to discount the Big 10 as inferior when we have 6/22 starters from there. Compared to 2 (+ 3 rotational guys) from the SEC. Belichick apparently has no problem with the quality of the programs there.
     
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    While not entirely fair, I think that if you compare Gholston's play in the championship game last season against what Groves did to LSU, you clearly see that Groves is the guy. The raw overweight LSU OT owned Gholston almost from start to finish. Not good!.

    However if you watch OSU and Michigan play and then watch Michigan and Florida play, you clearly see that Gholston was a much better player than Harvey.

    And finally if you watch the Florida Auburn game from the year before. you will notice how Groves negatively affected impacted both Leak and Tebow's game.

    Besides being able to trade down and pick up some change for moving down later in the first round, I am a Groves fan for one simple reason, I think he is much more sudden then either Long or Gholston. I don't need Groves to be a 3 down LB as a rookie. I need someone who can get to the QB off the edge in a hurry. And I spent most of the last half of the 2007 season upset that the Pats could not get heat on the opposing QB on third and long. How sad was it to watch Feely and Boller and a one legged Rivers and the Jags QB and Eli just rip our soft zone defense to pieces with their nice clean jerseys.

    Everything else about our defense works, until we get to third and long, then a lack of a pass rush and a soft zone secondary are exposed.

    All that being said however, if someone can bring to light the reported "character issues/baggage" that Groves has, it might change my mind, depending on the nature of the baggage.
     
  17. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Sporting News has him at 259, too. I think NFL.com did not update their profiles.
     
  18. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thanks for the update. I remember some guys dropping weight before the combine so they could get their speed up, but this year it seems most prospects gained weight.

    Gholston went from 250-254lbs up to 266lbs, and was able to maintain his speed.

    Goff came in at 245lbs, which is up from his expected 236-238lbs, and he posted faster times than some had expected.

    During the season I believe Keith Rivers was listed at something like 220lbs, and at the combine he weighed 241lbs.

    But, the biggest weight gain that I can think of (off the top of my head) came from Bruce Davis. All season he was listed at 228-229lbs. At the Combine he weighed 252lbs.

    With some of these weight gains there seems to be a decent list of 3-4 OLB prospects, and while there's not a strong crop of 3-4 ILB, I do think a few different prospects could become starters in NE's system.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  19. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    6'3 259 with 4.6 speed? If that is true, yeah he sounds like a good fit!
     
  20. sebman2112

    sebman2112 In the Starting Line-Up

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    6'3" 259lbs with 4.57 forty speed, and more importantly (according to scouts on hand) one of the fastest 10 splits in Combine history.

    Oh, and he previously ran a 4.43 forty for NFL scouts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
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