Looking at the upsides

[NEGoldenAge]

Ha Ha Ha... ROTFLMAO

You couldn't hold back on that. Could you?

You couldn't post with your primary handle, could you?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I love this argument: "if you take away".

If you "take away" Manning's game ending int, he had a really good game in the sb! If you "take away" Mark Sanchez's int's during the regular season and focus on what he did in the playoffs, he had a really good year, too!!!

We were never a 14-2 team, and changing out the things you mentioned does not mean we will be a 14-2 team next year, because if we were trully a 14-2 team, you wouldnt have to "take away" the thing(s) that made us a 10-6 team.

Try actually reading the posts before responding, it would make your reply alot more relevant to the discussion. The guy said he thinks this year's team is last year's team minus the 4th quarter collapses, hence my comments. I'm not sure where you see in my post anything claiming we are a 14-2 team. Again, reading makes a big difference before making smart*** sarcastic replies with exclamation points. Try it sometime

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Does anyone think Pat Paschall can make the team and then make an impact in the run game? Looks like a good player that will add some youth to the RB corps.

 

[signbabybrady]

Here is a position breakdown of the potential upside

QB - Brady is now two years from the ACL and should have full mobility (whatever he had) and full confidence back.

RB - prolly the position with least upside but we did not get much out of Taylor due to injuries and he could be the best back of the group.

WR - Certainly this one has a lot of upside but one potential big down side this thread is for upside and the downside is obvious. On the up you added Holt who should be a very solid three and will likely be playing as the 4 and he is versatile, You added a promising rookie in Price, You get back a promising rookie in Tate and to top it all off a player who contributed despite a broken arm and playing the position for a matter of weeks will be playing with added game experience, an offseason of experience, and a healthy arm. And as a kicker Moss will be healthy at least to start and dont under rate what he played thru.

TE - We got very little out of this position last year so that alone gives it upside potential, add one of the leagues best run blockers for the position and two rooks and it is easy to see a position with the most upside.

OL - Volmer likely starting and with more experience

DL - you added guys with the right frame who shouldn't be overpowered at RDE and made sure the backbone of the DL is happy.

LB - Mayo will not be dealing with the MCL, Guyton has another year experience, you got rid of a cancer, You get back a promising rook from last year and a not so promising rook from 2 years ago (McKenzie and Crable), You add a rookie inside and out.

Passrush - Guys added to the DL and LB should help this out by making more third and longs and the secondary should give them more time.

DB - The key upside here is Butler, Chung, and McCourty. 3 young kids no one drafted lower than butler at 40 something.

STs - Slater had what appeared to be a serious injury to his arm in preseason last year and played thru it, you added Murrel to compete, and Tate or McCourty should give a better return game than last year.


the potential for this team is kind of ridiculous when you think about it but certainly not all the potential will be realized and there will be issues that come up but IMO this very easily could be a much improved team and they were 10-6 last year and a juggernaut for years so that is scary to think of.

 

[signbabybrady]

For the sake of balance here is the positional downside breakdown

QB - Not really one I guess Tom is a year older and spending to much time on the west coast

RB - injury concerns, what is left in the tank concerns, the only youth you can rely on developed fumbilitis late last year, and the other youth as limited potential

WR - Concern of age catching up to Moss and Holt, concern about injuriess to Welker, Tate, and I guess Moss too, other than three mentioned there is virtually no experience except for Patten and Aiken

TE - Continuity and experience

OL - Age and health especially as it relates to Neal, Depth on the interior

DL - Very little downside here really all you can say as a downside is that it doesn't appear you have one guy to fill the RDE but situational guys to rotate thru.

LB - again Very little downside really the onlything I can point to as a downside here is that the upside might take years to develope. It should be noted while there is little downside there wasn't much room from last year to go further down.

Passrush - again very little downside really the one thing here would be can Tully perform like that again and that like at LB the upside might take time to develope

DB - Not sure the is any downside at all here

STs - downside would be a rookie punter, and the potential that with all the young players between this years draft and last year we might have some inexperienced guys playing as you cant keep everyone.

 

[fgssand]

Here's the main thing to keep in mind.

Belichick and Brady and all the leaders on the team know they need to get back to being the tough underdogs who recognize that each player on the roster has a role to play and is committed to performing that role to his highest ability.

In doing so the sum of the whole is more than that of the parts.

Belichick is going out of his way to bring back the gritty attitude that's been lost in the last 2 years or so.

They know this is a winning formula - Torry Holt can attest to that for the guys in the locker room who don't remember.

Let's not forget just who Torry Holt is..........you want to talk upside?? Brady throwing to one of the best route runners to have ever played the game......

"
Patriots wide receiver Isaiah Stanbach hasn’t been shy about trying to sponge information off veteran wideouts David Patten and Torry Holt.
“It’s really good having them around. The leadership stands out, right off the bat,” Stanback said. “With Torry, he’s someone, my film guys back in Dallas would take his film cut-ups and say, ‘Watch him.’ It’s great to have a resource like that and pick apart his brain. I’ve been in his hip pocket since he got here. He’s one of the best route-runners to have ever played the game. It’s hard not to want to get that information.”


Ex-mates support Tom Brady - BostonHerald.com

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Y... If you subtract the 4th quarter meltdowns from last year you will have the team this year.

There's a lot of talk about the Pats Fourth quarter "meltdowns" last year. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

We lost five games last year. Putting aside the Houston game, because of the Welker injury and the upcoming playoff game, that leaves four losses.

Let's face it, we were never in the NOL game, trailing by two TD's going into the fourth quarter.

We lost to the jets by only a TD, yes, but we didn't score in the entire second half, after leading by 9--6 at halftime and then giving up 10 in the third quarter and an FG in the 4th. Similarly, the Pats didn't put a single point up in the entire second half against Denver either. In both of those games, the issue was the entire half not a last minute "meltdown."

The Indy game was just a great football game that can't be neatly categorized as a meltdown but as a game where Peyton got into a rhythm where he wasn't going to be denied if he had the ball. Even then, we came within inches of a different outcome on "Fourth and Two."

The only game where there was an indisputable "meltdown" in the fourth quarter was the Miami game.

That said, the pattern that's interesting to me is the difference between the first and second halves last year. I think this is what Tommy was talking about when he spoke of "mental toughness."

In 2009, the Pats outscored their opponents by 146 points in the first half (282--136), but, in the second half, they scored only half as many points and were outscored by their opponents by a point (146--145) [edit]. The D gave up virtually the same number of points in each half, but the offense was only 50% as productive.

The Pats quarter by quarter scoring last year was: 99, 183, 70, 75.

To me, this isn't a "meltdown" but a pattern of not coming out to play two halves; thus, I like Brady's use of the term "mental toughness" to describe it.

What do you all think?

 

[mgteich]

Your position is quite reasonable. How dare you question our offense!

There's a lot of talk about the Pats Fourth quarter "meltdowns" last year. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

We lost five games last year. Putting aside the Houston game, because of the Welker injury and the upcoming playoff game, that leaves four losses.

Let's face it, we were never in the NOL game, trailing by two TD's going into the fourth quarter.

We lost to the jets by only a TD, yes, but we didn't score in the entire second half, after leading by 9--6 at halftime and then giving up 10 in the third quarter and an FG in the 4th. Similarly, the Pats didn't put a single point up in the entire second half against Denver either. In both of those games, the issue was the entire half not a last minute "meltdown."

The Indy game was just a great football game that can't be neatly categorized as a meltdown but as a game where Peyton got into a rhythm where he wasn't going to be denied if he had the ball. Even then, we came within inches of a different outcome on "Fourth and Two."

The only game where there was an indisputable "meltdown" in the fourth quarter was the Miami game.

That said, the pattern that's interesting to me is the difference between the first and second halves last year. I think this is what Tommy was talking about when he spoke of "mental toughness."

In 2009, the Pats outscored their opponents by 146 points in the first half (282--136), but, in the second half, they scored only half as many points and were outscored by their opponents by a point (146--145) [edit]. The D gave up virtually the same number of points in each half, but the offense was only 50% as productive.

The Pats quarter by quarter scoring last year was: 99, 183, 70, 75.

To me, this isn't a "meltdown" but a pattern of not coming out to play two halves; thus, I like Brady's use of the term "mental toughness" to describe it.

What do you all think?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Your position is quite reasonable. How dare you question our offense!

How dare you say it's reasonable to question our offense!

 

[Deus Irae]

How dare you say it's reasonable to question our offense!

He just forgot to put the "T" in front of "reasonable".

 

[PatsFanSince74]

He just forgot to put the "T" in front of "reasonable".

Good one....

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Pats AFCE competition will decline. You don't have to be great, just better than your opponents. But the Pats are better; and the Divisional opponents are weaker.

I for one think that the Jets are pure smoke and mirrors. That and New York centered media hype is predictable, played out to win-starved Jets fans, and encouraged by an ownership desperately pushing to sell overpriced PSLs and seats, in a new stadium.

The only reason they were not a .500 team was the Colts forfeited; and gave them their 9th win by quitting for the last 3 game of the regular season and playing nothing but scrubs. They were one of the lucky lottery winners, of a give away victory,that gave them a ticket to the Playoffs at 9-7.

Blitzing teams can be impressive the first time they are seen. But not so much after the film is studied for all the exotic blitzes, cataloged, analyzed, and counters developed. That is what OCs do all off season.

We Pats fans learned that the hard way, with Pete Carroll's great 6-2 or 5-3 starts, and clicking demonic blitzes. Only to see second half defensive collapses, when the blitzes stopped working. After opposition Coaches could study the film and develop counters.

So the Jets Defense will not be as impressive. Wrecks hid Sanchez behind a good blocking line with three good runners, and a ball control running Offense. He can't do that again.

First his line had no depth, very luckily, no injuries either.

Second, Wrecks himself broke up the line by letting Faneca go, and gave the job to a mere rookie. No matter how good the UMass rookie becomes, he won't be Faneca in 2010.

Third, He undermined the running game by sending Jones and Washington away leaving him with one RB, Shone Green and a barf-bucket out-of-shape, rook at a position where the players get hit and dinged. Normal chances are they lose an OL to injury, and a RB gets hurt. Then we will see a soph QB who didn't do much his rookie season, behind a porous line, in all his immaturity.

Plus the strategy of trading an entire draft for one or two players cannot work for 5 consecutive years. There is no replenishment for the the Team as a whole, beyond the few starters added.

The Dolphins are building under the Tuna, but they are still at the stage of addition and subtraction. They lost Joey Porter and Jason Taylor, as well as adding some new pieces. They will move up to second place; and might even reach playing .500.

The Patriot's Run defense hurt the both the Defense and Offense last season. The D couldn't get the ball back; and the Offense needed more opportunities to score. Due to its own problems, it lead to an inordinate number of FGs and not TDs.

The Offense was somewhat predictable with a Zero production at #2 WR, and unreliable pass catching from TE. It placed too much on two WRs, Moss and Welker. Teams adjusted to that, and Moss got dinged badly, played through it less effectively. Although we didn't know it, or why, we saw the loss in effectiveness.

In general, the Team had a few deficiencies, that I attribute more to incomplete defensive rebuilding. And also a few holes on Offense, at #2 outside WR and TE. One more double draft, the massive return from IR of Crabel, McKenzie, Tate, and Wheatley, gives almost another third, complete high draft class too, and experience for the other youngsters will also help. The imported veteran DLs will help the run D. Then this upcoming Patriot's Defense will be much better.

This upcoming team looks stronger all the way around. That adds up to another AFCE Divisional title; and an invitation to the Tourney.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The Pats AFCE competition will decline. You don't have to be great, just better than your opponents. But the Pats are better; and the Divisional opponents are weaker.

I agree the Pats got better. How much better we'll see. I think that the Jets and Dolphins could also have improved. We'll have to wait and see.

I for one think that the Jets are pure smoke and mirrors. That and New York centered media hype is predictable, played out to win-starved Jets fans, and encouraged by an ownership desperately pushing to sell overpriced PSLs and seats, in a new stadium.

No, the Playoff victories were real and they gave the Dolts a game for a half. Here, we should tend to our own knitting first, as the Jets at least showed up for their playoff games.


The only reason they were not a .500 team was the Colts forfeited; and gave them their 9th win by quitting for the last 3 game of the regular season and playing nothing but scrubs. They were one of the lucky lottery winners, of a give away victory,that gave them a ticket to the Playoffs at 9-7.

Yes, they were lucky, but then they made something of it (and the Colts gave them their eighth win; the Bungles their ninth).


Blitzing teams can be impressive the first time they are seen. But not so much after the film is studied for all the exotic blitzes, cataloged, analyzed, and counters developed. That is what OCs do all off season.

We Pats fans learned that the hard way, with Pete Carroll's great 6-2 or 5-3 starts, and clicking demonic blitzes. Only to see second half defensive collapses, when the blitzes stopped working. After opposition Coaches could study the film and develop counters.

If you look at the Jets schedule, it's the early part that will give them a problem as much as a tough finish in December. They face the very realistic possibility of going into Miami for a "must win" game in week three at 0--2 to play the Dolphins in their home opener.

So the Jets Defense will not be as impressive. Wrecks hid Sanchez behind a good blocking line with three good runners, and a ball control running Offense. He can't do that again.

It's way premature to conclude that.

First his line had no depth, very luckily, no injuries either.

Second, Wrecks himself broke up the line by letting Faneca go, and gave the job to a mere rookie. No matter how good the UMass rookie becomes, he won't be Faneca in 2010.

Agree

Third, He undermined the running game by sending Jones and Washington away leaving him with one RB, Shone Green and a barf-bucket out-of-shape, rook at a position where the players get hit and dinged. Normal chances are they lose an OL to injury, and a RB gets hurt. Then we will see a soph QB who didn't do much his rookie season, behind a porous line, in all his immaturity.

Agree

Plus the strategy of trading an entire draft for one or two players cannot work for 5 consecutive years. There is no replenishment for the the Team as a whole, beyond the few starters added.

Given. The Jets are unabashedly making decisions based on a strategy to "win now."

The Dolphins are building under the Tuna, but they are still at the stage of addition and subtraction. They lost Joey Porter and Jason Taylor, as well as adding some new pieces. They will move up to second place; and might even reach playing .500.

Way too early to tell that. Let's see how things sort out. I think we all risk underestimating the Dolphins with all the anxiety about the Jests.

The Patriot's Run defense hurt the both the Defense and Offense last season. The D couldn't get the ball back; and the Offense needed more opportunities to score. Due to its own problems, it lead to an inordinate number of FGs and not TDs.

I think that oversimplifies things. The Offense was great guns in the first half. But scored half as many points in the second. I suspect that's due to a lot of factors on analysis.

The Offense was somewhat predictable with a Zero production at #2 WR, and unreliable pass catching from TE. It placed too much on two WRs, Moss and Welker. Teams adjusted to that, and Moss got dinged badly, played through it less effectively. Although we didn't know it, or why, we saw the loss in effectiveness.

Yeah, that's accurate.

In general, the Team had a few deficiencies, that I attribute more to incomplete defensive rebuilding. And also a few holes on Offense, at #2 outside WR and TE. One more double draft, the massive return from IR of Crabel, McKenzie, Tate, and Wheatley, gives almost another third, complete high draft class too, and experience for the other youngsters will also help. The imported veteran DLs will help the run D. Then this upcoming Patriot's Defense will be much better.

Yeah, as I said, the team should be better this year; we just don't know how much better and whether BB has a "grand plan" for it to come together this season or next, which is a problem because of the likely labor issues.

This upcoming team looks stronger all the way around. That adds up to another AFCE Divisional title; and an invitation to the Tourney.

Pls see my comments above.

 

[stinkypete]

Let's stop pretending that the Jets are smoke and mirrors. They have a top 5 OL, an excellent LB corps, a top 3 NT, the best corner in the game, system fits all over the defense, and some excellent skill position players. This is not smoke and mirrors. The big question mark of course is Sanchez. If he is destined to be an elite QB (and at #5 overall he is supposed to be) the Jets are a legitimate Super Bowl contender, like it or not.

Not to say they are without problems. The DEs are thin and they downgraded at RB. Depth is lacking all over after giving up multiple picks in the '07, '09 and '10 drafts. I see the Jets are the biggest boom or bust team to come around in a long time. I can see them winning 14 games and the Super Bowl and I can see them struggling to win 7. It depends on how injuries, chemistry and QB development shake out. They have as high an upside as any team heading into the 2010 season. Let's not kid ourselves.

In contrast, I see the Patriots as a safe bet 10-11 team. I also think the Pats are much better built for the long term. As far as 2010 is concerned, they should be considered a second tier contender, a notch below the AFC elite but a team that will be in it through December and could sneak away with a playoff win or two.

 

[WhiZa]

Let's stop pretending that the Jets are smoke and mirrors. They have a top 5 OL, an excellent LB corps, a top 3 NT, the best corner in the game, system fits all over the defense, and some excellent skill position players. This is not smoke and mirrors. The big question mark of course is Sanchez. If he is destined to be an elite QB (and at #5 overall he is supposed to be) the Jets are a legitimate Super Bowl contender, like it or not.

Not to say they are without problems. The DEs are thin and they downgraded at RB. Depth is lacking all over after giving up multiple picks in the '07, '09 and '10 drafts. I see the Jets are the biggest boom or bust team to come around in a long time. I can see them winning 14 games and the Super Bowl and I can see them struggling to win 7. It depends on how injuries, chemistry and QB development shake out. They have as high an upside as any team heading into the 2010 season. Let's not kid ourselves.

In contrast, I see the Patriots as a safe bet 10-11 team. I also think the Pats are much better built for the long term. As far as 2010 is concerned, they should be considered a second tier contender, a notch below the AFC elite but a team that will be in it through December and could sneak away with a playoff win or two.

We should all be hyping the Jets so when they have their annual meltdown it will that much sweeter