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Lombardi: Patriots have become the tough-minded team Belichick desired.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by KontradictioN, Jan 23, 2012.

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  1. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NFL.com news: Patriots have become the tough-minded team Belichick desired

  2. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    Thanks for this KontradictioN, I have been trying to eloquently put what I have been seeing in words but have not been able to do so. Lombardi has done it brilliantly for me. Just watching the 09 season, you could just see how he wanted to gut that team. He saw them as mentally weak in a lot of areas. No fight at all. I bet BB gave him a lot of insight into that article. Very nicely written I think.
    In fact I think last year's team might have lost the game yesterday.
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's absolutely right too. The 2009 team would have folded after those turnovers. They might not be the most talented team and have some glaring flaws, but there's no question that they're mentally tough.
  4. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Definitely a good read, thanks for posting.

    Some people here may not like him, but I really enjoy Lombardi's work. He's on Bill Simmons' podcast quite a bit, and while there he makes his admiration for Belichick and the Pats very clear (he worked in the Browns' front office when Belichick was there).
  5. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    Thank you for posting this, Kontra.
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yet we had some here bemoaning the cutting of the soft players because they were drafted in high rounds.
  7. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    And now we probably have a clear cut explanation for all those head scratching personnel moves over the last two years.

    They just weren't tough enough. Does anyone really think that some of those released DBs would have made that same "extra" effort to punch that sure TD?

    Probably not.
  8. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

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    I know for sure that the party starter would not.
  9. ArchAngel007

    ArchAngel007 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Lombardi is like one of the few people in the media who strikes me as pro-Patriot
  10. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Lombardi's one of the very few who gets it when it comes to the Pats and especially BB. He nailed this one, his take on the D is right too. Awesome stuff thanks Kontra:rocker:
  11. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This defense, as imperfect as it may be, has been the most physical that I can remember in awhile. It's good to see it back:)
  12. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    The 2009 New England Patriots defense was also getting old:

    Ty Warren, 2003 NFL Draft
    Vince Wilfork, 2004 NFL Draft
    Jarvis Green, 2002 NFL Draft
    Junior Seau, 1990 NFL Draft
    Adalius Thomas, 2000 NFL Draft
    Derrick Burgess, 2001 NFL Draft
    Tully Banta-Cain, 2003 NFL Draft
    Shawn Springs, 1997 NFL Draft
    Leigh Bodden, 2003 NFL Draft

    In addition, Gary Guyton has always been a liability against the run.
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't like the safety moves and they had been badly hurting the defense all season until Devin McCourty was used at safety more often with Sterling Moore being used at CB. That's where the defense improved. McCourty definitely needs to play better, but Moore has surprised and made two of the biggest plays in the game (and, arguably, of the season) in succession yesterday. He's also more effective in the bump and run than McCourty was.
  14. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    Its probably because he worked for BB back when BB was coaching the Browns. Lombardi was Pro Personnel Director
  15. MoLewisrocks

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    He's not just talking about the defense, either. For those who keep longing for a 2007 reunion tour...

    Throughout 2009 Brady and when he took the podium as well Welker kept pounding one message, mental toughness and guys pushing through "whatever" their problem was. Be that disagreement with coaching or roles in schemes, contract and career concerns, off field or post career concerns, media perceptions, injuries, whatever...

    The "Patriot Way" is about being able to compartmentalize your life and block out all the off field issues and just do your job as a football players, whatever that may be or you may be asked to make it be (coaching to scheme), in order to be ready, willing and able to perform to the best of your ability for the 6 months or so that this organization is paying you to be a focused football player. If you never had or simply lose the ability to do that over time, your time here is brief or over.

    This is why the Haynesworth and Ocho experiments remain headscratchers. He wants guys who are willing to compete and even claw for their jobs whether that pits them against guys who are (perceived as) infinitely more or less talented than you and whether the team is seemingly rolling or battling through adversity. And he wants guys who will continue to compete even when by all appearances they have achieved or arrived at their personal goals. The cliches aren't cliches here. Cog in the wheel, strength of the wolf is in the pack, check your ego at the door, next man up...do YOUR job. You have to buy all in here or you don't fit the system regardless of talent.

    A lot of fans and most mediots still struggle with the concept that what consistently wins championships are teams built and forged around unselfish driven football players of varying talent 1-53, determined to do whatever it takes to take advantage of any opportunities presented to them. Merely collecting or amassing showcase talent on one side of the ball or the other (because the cap limits ability to amass it across the board with any functional depth) is just an expensive exercise in fantasy football futility at worst and unreliable/unsustainable real world model at best do to the violent physical and mentally demanding nature of this game.
  16. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    not at all.......BB has regularly taken other peoples problems and given them a chance to adhere.....

    bryan cox
    antowain smith
    corey dillon
    ted washington
    rodney harrison


    they were all deemed malcontents in their previous place of employment. the fact that ocho is still around is more likely a testament to the fac that when it has come to the clubhouse he has not been 'me first'. his season has been borderline humiliation for him and not a peep. he has helped, just not in a way that is obvious to others. his example to the younger players is likely that even though he's not doing what everyone thought he would be doin, that he is still helping with a positive attitude. he's likely helped the defense more than the offense this year.

    your 'holier than thou' priciples are a little over the top, to be honest
  17. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    What is back is a sense of pride.

    McGinest says it all the time on NFL network. Belichick would take you into the meeting room and show you how you got beat. This is where Parcells and BB are very much alike in their coaching styles.

    I think when you get you pride stepped on, you get embarassed.

    In recent games, this defense is developing that sense of pride, sense of accountability. They are proud in their work. They are understanding it is their reputation on the line.

    BB uses all of these things to try and motivate his players and they seem lately that they are finally starting to get the message.

    Hope it continues...
  18. MoLewisrocks

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    Those players were not all malcontents and to a man they were hardnosed scrappers which Albert and Chad have never been known to be. Dillon shouldn't have been extended as he was basically one and done. Washington decided to be one and done. Smith was the classic overachieving jag. Cox was brought in to set a tone. Harrison was available because Schottenheimer miscalculated and created the perception he was physically washed up. Bill believed he wasn't and Rodney seized that opportunity and bought all in and helped this team overcome early adversity right out of the gate...

    What Bill could get away with in the first half of the last decade because of the makeup of the core here and what he could get away with as it wound down were very different things. Absent most of his core of tough minded locker room leaders, a few of whom themselves bailed because of the desire to make a few more $$$ rather than grind for a shot at a few more rings, he was no longer in good position to manage problem children. Haynesworth and Ocho didn't cause problems because one got jetisoned before his stink permeated the locker room and the other is an entertainer who cares so much about perception he doesn't dare open his mouth against an organization including a HOF HC and QB that has had his expensive but unfortunately worthless to date (17 games and counting) back.

    And I didn't say they were problems here, just that going that route again after 2009-10 was a headscratcher. Neither player is mentally tough or particularly driven to prove his critics wrong, although one had made a cottage industry out of talking about doing just that for most of his career. I'm sure Bill is relieved he was only half wrong about Ocho... he's toed the line just to no avail. Albert was quietly going through the motions of being Albert which even when it paid occasional dividends on the field wasn't an example worth retaining at minimal dead cap. Chad would have to pull the pin on a grenade to be worth dumping be cause of his dead cap situation.
  19. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    LOL........the world according to Mo....paint the picture you want to pain rather than what is

    washington found his way out of niner land because he was a trouble-maker there. then he lasted one year in denver. he signed a nice deal with the bills, but even as a probowler, the bills cut him.....what does that say? with the bears, he was a probowler again, but they wound up giving him away....sure he broke his leg, but he was still a probowler.

    the bills parted with smith because he didn't seem to care and didn't always put his best effort in.

    cox walks around flipping fans off

    harrison cause dtrouble with schottenheimer, and was cut more because of money and his relationship with his coach rather than anything else.

    and then theres moss......another malcontent.


    indeed, they were all malcontents. and no, ocho is not lazy.....he's as hard a working WR as any.

    your bias clouds your vision....fact is, BB always takes chances on malcontents ..... but to you they've become head-scratchers.......as though you know something they don't

  20. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Great article except for the reality that BB brought in players like Haynesworth and Nocatcho....two of the least tough players to come through Foxborough. BB has hickies on his ass from this fluff piece
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