Lombardi: Patriots have become the tough-minded team Belichick desired.

[RodThePat]

Great article except for the reality that BB brought in players like Haynesworth and Nocatcho....two of the least tough players to come through Foxborough. BB has hickies on his ass from this fluff piece

Care to remind us of the other free agent acquisitions he made? And what has Ochocinco done to suggest he's lazy or 'soft' or anything? He's having trouble grasping the playbook and his role in our offensive system. That doesn't indicate he isn't mentally tough, come on.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yet we had some here bemoaning the cutting of the soft players because they were drafted in high rounds.

Or bemoaning the drafting of soft players in high rounds.

Always on board with "the best player wins, regardless of draft position", but when the lower-drafted/UDFA player is winning out consistently, then that suggests a flaw in draft philosophy. Not a fatal flaw, obviously, but something to take note of, sure.

 

[Ivan]

Disagree on Ocho. Ocho has always run his mouth but it was almost always in good fun, he's not a malcontent and this season more than proves it as he has barely seen the field but is regarded by everyone as a really hard worker, and he has kept quiet and never complained. That's putting the team first and fits Belichik's description of toughness perfectly. He isn't a guy who has consistently missed games and he loves football. I don't think Ocho should come back next year because he looks to be done as a player, but i wouldn't knock him as he has done what they asked it just didn't work out.

Belichik regularly takes flyers on players and some work out and some don't. He also cuts bait with them quickly when they show they don't fit here and aren't productive.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Those players were not all malcontents and to a man they were hardnosed scrappers which Albert and Chad have never been known to be. Dillon shouldn't have been extended as he was basically one and done. Washington decided to be one and done. Smith was the classic overachieving jag. Cox was brought in to set a tone. Harrison was available because Schottenheimer miscalculated and created the perception he was physically washed up. Bill believed he wasn't and Rodney seized that opportunity and bought all in and helped this team overcome early adversity right out of the gate...

What Bill could get away with in the first half of the last decade because of the makeup of the core here and what he could get away with as it wound down were very different things. Absent most of his core of tough minded locker room leaders, a few of whom themselves bailed because of the desire to make a few more $$$ rather than grind for a shot at a few more rings, he was no longer in good position to manage problem children. Haynesworth and Ocho didn't cause problems because one got jetisoned before his stink permeated the locker room and the other is an entertainer who cares so much about perception he doesn't dare open his mouth against an organization including a HOF HC and QB that has had his expensive but unfortunately worthless to date (17 games and counting) back.

And I didn't say they were problems here, just that going that route again after 2009-10 was a headscratcher. Neither player is mentally tough or particularly driven to prove his critics wrong, although one had made a cottage industry out of talking about doing just that for most of his career. I'm sure Bill is relieved he was only half wrong about Ocho... he's toed the line just to no avail. Albert was quietly going through the motions of being Albert which even when it paid occasional dividends on the field wasn't an example worth retaining at minimal dead cap. Chad would have to pull the pin on a grenade to be worth dumping be cause of his dead cap situation.

I lived in Cincy 1998-2001.

The same was said about Dillon.

The reality is all of these "malcontents" had proven skills worthy of a try. If they work, it's great, If it doesn't, they go.

It's as simple as that. Ditto for the draft.

I would be more worried if there were no players ever jettisoned.

That's too risk adverse.

The other point is that the core players of the dynasty cut their teeth in the 90's. Anyone care to rehash 1999?

How about a different perspective?

In 2009/10, the Patriots rebuilt almost the entire team, made the playoffs with the franchise QB coming off ACL and went 14-2 with half the snaps taken by rookies/second year players.

The following year they are in the Super Bowl.....and have four picks in the first two rounds of the draft with plenty of cap space.

That's a monumental achievement. It's actually more impressive than winning a Super Bowl. Somebody wins that every year.

Think the two competitive AFC franchises in Indy and Pittsburgh are in better shape?

 

[Deus Irae]

Great article except for the reality that BB brought in players like Haynesworth and Nocatcho....two of the least tough players to come through Foxborough. BB has hickies on his ass from this fluff piece

BB brought in Haynesworth and then cut his ass when he didn't get with the program enough. BB's made a lot of mistakes in recent years, and the trade for Haynesworth is one of them, but the way he cut his ass may very well have brought that team together in a way that other moves hadn't.

It's certainly not hurt the team's record.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yet we had some here bemoaning the cutting of the soft players because they were drafted in high rounds.

You can't have it both ways, though. If BB's cutting high picks because they are soft, what the hell's he doing drafting them in the first place?

Sorry, but bemoaning the move, be it the pick or the cut, is well within bounds, IMO.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You can't have it both ways, though. If BB's cutting high picks because they are soft, what the hell's he doing drafting them in the first place?

Sorry, but bemoaning the move, be it the pick or the cut, is well within bounds, IMO.

Hey Ian

Maybe we should get a collection going for a night out.

We have a regular here that would be a perfect match for Steve in Fall River.

 

[IllegalContact]

you'd be a losy GM if you wouldn't have given Haynesworth a shot the way the pats did.......when it became obvious that the 'contract year' attitude could not be brought back, he was gone. he didn't cost the pats a thing.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

BB brought in Haynesworth and then cut his ass when he didn't get with the program enough. BB's made a lot of mistakes in recent years, and the trade for Haynesworth is one of them, but the way he cut his ass may very well have brought that team together in a way that other moves hadn't.

It's certainly not hurt the team's record.

Fun fact:
Since Haynesworth was waived by the Pats and signed by the Buccaneers:
Patriots: 10-0, average score 35.9-18.8
Buccaneers: 0-8, average score 17.5-40.6

I know it's not all on Haynesworth, but

 

[Amnorix]

We all bemoan the mistakes, whether we do it here in public, or in private, or merely in the back of our minds. How can you not? The team has repeatedly spent high draft picks on DBs, for example, and missed. The names come to mind with no effort at all -- Meriweather, Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley, etc. etc.

But one of BB's strengths is a willingness to cut a guy, no matter where he was drafted, and move on. Not all teams admit their mistakes so readily. Not all teams are willing to take the inevitable criticism. The Patriots admit their mistakes and move on, realizing that keeping the guy only COMPOUNDS the mistake.

But yeah, we're going to have to spend more draft picks, high picks, on DBs and hope some of them actually hit.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

We all bemoan the mistakes, whether we do it here in public, or in private, or merely in the back of our minds. How can you not? The team has repeatedly spent high draft picks on DBs, for example, and missed. The names come to mind with no effort at all -- Meriweather, Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley, etc. etc.

But one of BB's strengths is a willingness to cut a guy, no matter where he was drafted, and move on. Not all teams admit their mistakes so readily. Not all teams are willing to take the inevitable criticism. The Patriots admit their mistakes and move on, realizing that keeping the guy only COMPOUNDS the mistake.

But yeah, we're going to have to spend more draft picks, high picks, on DBs and hope some of them actually hit.

Complaining about a missed draft pick is like complaining about Ted Williams failing 6 of 10 at bats in 1941. It's simply part of the game.

Where people seem to disconnect is in the Stalin adage that, "Quantity is a quality onto itself. " Always having extra picks means more players, more competition, better depth. This allows the cut process to be smoother.

An interesting way to judge the player process is how many cut players are claimed by other teams at the start of the season.