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Let's Lock Talib Up Now Longterm before FA

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by The_Riddler, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    This guy is the guy we've been looking for. He's tall, he's athletic, he's young, he's instinctual with solid ball skills. A guy you can trust, a guy that allows you to get more aggressive with your front seven as we've seen recently.

    To be honest, I don't want to see him leave next year and I'm afraid if we aren't proactive and jump on it now, we might lose him.
  2. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    How much? How long?
  3. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

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    It's been four games. I'm not basing any long-term contract on four games. Dude's gonna want to break the bank.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, please.

    4 years, roughly $28M or 5/$35M. Not quite Brandon Carr / Cortland Finnegan money, but not chump change. And probably with some conduct clauses built in.
  5. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    My thoughts exactly.

    he is going to want in the region of 40 Mill.

    If not more.

    what was the Jason McCourty deal?
  6. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

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    The defense is noticeably better and more aggressive since he's been here. I hope they do what it take to re-sign him, within reason of course, but it's been a great fit for both sides so far.
  7. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He may be cheaper given that TB basically dumped him and he has had many run ins with the NFL, etc.

    For the right price I'd take a shot. Would need to be a contract with mucho incentives.
  8. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Rookie

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    I'd like to see him signed, but I am so sure it is the right move for the organization. Tee guy has been a problem player since he got into the league.

    Maybe the Patriots can cure him of his issues, I don't know.
  9. BradyMossWelker

    BradyMossWelker Rookie

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    Who the hell cares?

    We actually have a defense for a change, and this guy is a big reason why.

    I want him locked up as soon as possible.
  10. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The primary problem I see with Talib and a long-term contract is he never received his big pay day following a rookie deal. If he shines, then he will likely look for that deal. One executive supposedly described him as $10 - $12 million talent. The Pats would not get into that contract game with Ty Law, and he was not a loose cannon conduct-wise like Talib.

    The Bucs page here, and all the fan posts following it, sums him up pretty well. The only way I see him as other than a rental would be (1) he does not shine with the Pats or (2) he feels some deep sense of gratitude to the Pats and accepts a below market contract on that basis alone. As success cures a lot of problems, I expect that he will get contract offers higher than the Pats would go (see Anderson, Green-Ellis, etc.).
  11. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    We could use the franchise tag on him.

    I think that's the perfect way to deal with him this off-season.


    Right now is NOT the time to be talking contracts. He's only been here 4 weeks, and its almost playoff time.


    Belichick and Kraft barely know Talib right now. Franchising him would give BB and Kraft a whole extra year to get to know him, personally. That way they will know if they can trust him or not. To see if he's matured or not.

    I don't see him getting a huge contract from us. Especially with his past issues. And since he's done well so far, I don't see BB just letting him walk after only having him for a few weeks at the end of the season. Franchise Tag is the way to go.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  12. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rookie

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    Agreed. But we gotta be thinking about Spikes too.
  13. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I'm a huge fan of the guy and I see his impact as much as you guys, but let's calm down a little bit. First off it's been just 4 games, and we haven't seen a playoff game yet. Second, the guy is a huge risk to be signing long term, bigger risk than Randy Moss was in '08, and he eventually had to be shipped out. LUCKILY we were able to rip off Minnesota before they waived him too. He's younger, but one more suspension could spell doom for him and he's got alot more baggage.

    IF this continues through the end of the season I wouldn't mind a 2 year extension. Any more than that may be too risky. These guys that come at a discount like Talib, Bodden, Springs,etc. AND have the ability to solidify one CB position, usually there is a catch. We saw the catch with Bodden (couldn't stay healthy after year 1) and Springs (injuries and character issues). Keep it short term and stay active in the draft/FA for a long term answer.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  14. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    If the team does their due diligence and are comfortable with the move then I'd support it. At the minute, I'd rather Welker geet tied up.

    Can they afford to do Vollmer, Woodhead, Welker and Talib with spikes shortly afterwards?
  15. Steve:Section 102

    Steve:Section 102 Rookie

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    No way. A four game flier on a guy doesn't warrant a long term commitment. Let's see how the rest of the season pans out and go from there. This guy needs to be a model citizen for more than a month before I'd consider a new deal.

    And, to review, the Pats policy (right or wrong) has been they generally don't value the CB position when it comes to big money contracts. Ty Law was a borderline HOF CB, and they didn't exactly shower him with $$. They let Asante walk. They have always looked to a veteran du jour for filling holes. I am not saying it's right, merely just pointing out how I see it. No way they lock up this guy after a month.
  16. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Well, the Pats care, for one.

    For better or worse, they are typically very cautious when it comes to who they give long-term deals to. Talib wouldn't appear to have the track record yet to be one of those guys.
  17. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Talib came on board Defense became significantly better no Brainer! BB Defenses have always thrived with Good/Great CB play ie...Law and Samuel One very good CB can make a difference. It would be a mistake not to resign Talib! who do you guys want to depend on? Glass-I Dowling i hope NOT!:mad: Lock-up Talib and our secondary is all set...money well spent atleast you know what we are getting...the man got skills and Dennard is only going to get better.:cool:
  18. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Woodhead? I don't care if we re-sign him. Vareen is better and you can't pay everyone. Vollmer is a must as is Spikes and definitely Welker and then we also have McCourty and Ridley eventually right? That being said I think the salary cap will go up and there is a certain FA out there that Billy will want:

    ED REED!

    Lets wait and see what happens
  19. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Our last Two SB feautured Defense's that couldn't stop Eli when it counted. Like our winning SB Teams i feel we can count on and also trust this Defense featuring Talib.
  20. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I'm interested to see what Vollmer's market value is. On one hand he's young and proven to be a dominant tackle when in aside from when he's played injured. On the other hand, he's spent a majority of the past 2 seasons nursing lingering back issues which date back to college. The value will be even less to us IMO considering our OL coach and Cannon's admirable fill in's when Vollmer was out.
  21. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Also don't forget we have Jeff Demps for next year! They'll likely restructure Brady's contract as well as his cap number is $21 mil next yr.
  22. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Did you all see the Job Vollmer did on JJ Watt? JJ Watt make average Tackles look stupid Vollmer did a job on him, he got some shots on Brady but Vollmer for the most part stalled Watt's initial charge which is quite a charge...Vollmer when healthy is a Big- Strong Athletic Elite Tackle he has to be locked up...Brady appreciates him.:cool:
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  23. Big-T

    Big-T Rookie

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    #51 Jersey

    Add to that there's a decent amount of cap space available before any restructuring.

    There's a chance with a Brady restructure everyone could be kept.

    New England Patriots Salary Cap 2013

    $6.4m carry over too based on his numbers for this year too.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  24. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

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    Talib was, at no point, coming to the table expecting Brandon Carr money. He has been too hit or miss on the field with too much going on off of the field, though I'm of the belief that the off the field problems are not so much Talib and much more the people around him. Unless Talib is insane or the Redskins are interested, the Patriots will be able to work out a decent deal for both sides with him. Better believe there will be plenty of room to cut bait.

    Ty Law was never going to re-sign for us. He was openly searching for the highest dollar amount, and that is never the Patriots. I think we can all agree that not signing Asante when there was reportedly an opportunity late 2006 or 2007 offseason was a mistake. Second guessers only gained momentum watching Butler, Wheatley, Wilhite, etc. flounder. The numbers he got with Philly were asinine, but not long before he left in FA there was a chance to sign him for a decent deal.
  25. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Low signing bonus, high per annum.

    That's the only way to go with Talib.
  26. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    My God, doesn't anyone have some perspective? As Pats fans we want to pay and keep everyone. It just doesn't happen. A couple of points/questions.

    1. What the franchise tag for a CB these days. If its not too high, it might be the way to go with him.

    2. Jason has us estimated at being $16MM under the cap right now. I'm not sure how accurate that is. Lets say we have an additional $5MM more in carry over. That's just $21MM under the cap. That's not much even if all we had to do was sign our own FA's. Welker wants 9-10, Volmer's gonna want at least $8, Edelman 3-4....and there's your cap space....gone before you even get to Talib and whatever CB's get.

    3. So what about Talib, Woodhead and all the others. What about the possibility of adding even middle class FA's. What about signing our draft picks? You can't sign everyone. Difficult choices are going to have to be made....and we aren't going to like them. Why? Because we are fans and fans never see the entire picture. We want what we want and we want it NOW!
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  27. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    There's no question he's a beast on the field. The question is a) are we willing to commit long term to someone who's had back issues for the greater part of the past 2 seasons and b) can we even afford it with all the expiring contracts this year and in upcoming years/ is it worth it given the play of Canon and Dante's ability to do more with less.
  28. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Seems pretty obvious you'd let Woodhead and Edelman walk under your scenario.
  29. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    Clearly the team needs to lock in a #1 CB for next year. If its Talib or another quality FA is a decision best made by Belichick. Talib has been good in 4 games but it is premature to give him 8mil a yr. I do think they did a great job to grab him at the deadline but in an entire offseason it is possible they find someone else they like better. the only thing i wouldn't want to see is the #32 pick or the #64 pick going to a rookie who would be required to start on Day 1.
  30. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    Woodhead is playing 20-25% of snaps, and on some weeks 0 touches (trust me, he had been on my FF team).

    I think Vereen has better future with this team. And Ridley is the 1 with Bolden showing he is capable for 15 carries on a game by game basis (ref his performance before the suspension).

    Signing Danny for more than a hometown discount is not in the long term plan of BB.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
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