Patriots Player Departure Lawrence Guy & Adrian Phillips Released

[mgteich]

I do not think you have to wait for 2025 or 2026 to sign marquee players now. The 2024 defensive FA class is amazing and we can sign them for 3 or 4 years if RK will add void years and pay cash upfront.

We do not want any mid-level contracts. We want blue chip players. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$7.5M for Hunter Henry? Are you hammered? Started day drinking on a Tuesday? RK has to add void years and pay the FAs. $7.5M for Hunter Henry and you want to sign Mid level players? Are you the Jonathan Kraft shadow account? WTF?

Dude, this is ridiculous. The Pats are #32 from 32 teams in FA over the next 3 years, and you want to sign mid level FAs? And Hunter Henry at $7.5M? OMG. Take the last train to nowhere.

OMG. Keep rolling over $30M every year for what? I do not know what to say. This is ridiculous. You must be a Jonathan or Robert Kraft shadow account.

Blue chip players may be available for the price many would call mid-level. Let's call mid-level $5M-$10M AAV. That might get you a top player at RB or TE. Other positions could take upwards of $20M AAV to get top players.

I agree that this year to try to sign very good starters on Defense to 3-4 year contracts. I also agree that this is the first year for us to defer much more money into the future through various contract mechanisms including backloading, guarantees, options and void years.

For me, we have enough cap money to also sign some free agency on Offense. This will allow flexibility in the Draft. After all, how many draftees should we count on to be 2024 starters or even 2024 contributors? We would help the draft possibilities a lot if we could sign free agents at LT, RT, TE and backup RB.

 

[Real fan 02]

This year is not about competing. Who cares what anybody thinks? 2, 4, 6, 8, or 10 games is not important. All that matters is that we "burn cash" in FA and make the right draft picks. Let's hope it was BB that was not spending and making the wrong draft decisions. If RK does not spend FA cash AND extend the FA signings into the future (void years) than we know it is RK who is cheap - that is more important than winning 6 or 8 games. Is Ben Mcadoo a QB whisperer? We will find out. We have always struggled to draft WRs, will that change? We will see. We are on the cusp of a MASSIVE player acquisition period for the next 2 years, if the players chosen are not blue chip, we are screwed for 5 years. That is what matters.

Your correct. I do believe that ownership wants to get back to winning to maintain thier revenue streams. Definitely agree if we bungle this thing then we are definitely screwed for the next several seasons.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Your correct. I do believe that ownership wants to get back to winning to maintain thier revenue streams. Definitely agree if we bungle this thing then we are definitely screwed for the next several seasons.

Yup. We need to push all our chips (FA and the draft) in to restructure the roster. If the Pats bungle it, it will be years before the franchise recovers.

 

[signbabybrady]

Your correct. I do believe that ownership wants to get back to winning to maintain thier revenue streams. Definitely agree if we bungle this thing then we are definitely screwed for the next several seasons.

We're already screwed and in that wash cycle. Fortunately it doesn't have to be several seasons teams get out of it quickly all the time. The real problem is when you get out of the wash cycle but you haven't actually cleaned up and you have someone like Drew instead Tom. Maybe too harsh on Drew and obviously there are ways out that don't include the GOAT but my point is we are already in trouble and we need to find someone that can prevent the rinse and repeat stages quickly.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yup. We need to push all our chips (FA and the draft) in to restructure the roster. If the Pats bungle it, it will be years before the franchise recovers.

Yes. Like the last 3 seasons for example. We bungled the draft pick at QB, WR, if not for the defense keeping us in games we'd be even worse off. As currently constructed we have no elite offensive skill players.

 

[Real fan 02]

We're already screwed and in that wash cycle. Fortunately it doesn't have to be several seasons teams get out of it quickly all the time. The real problem is when you get out of the wash cycle but you haven't actually cleaned up and you have someone like Drew instead Tom. Maybe too harsh on Drew and obviously there are ways out that don't include the GOAT but my point is we are already in trouble and we need to find someone that can prevent the rinse and repeat stages quickly.

Well put! Well the draw back was we mishandled the QB position. We know that Mac or Zapp isn't the answer. Both likely won't be on this roster next season. Your correct we need to get this roster up to Parr, up to NFL caliber. I can't remember a bill coached team in his entire patriots tenure that produced no pro bowlers on offense or defense like last season. Just goes to show where we are currently at.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes. Like the last 3 seasons for example. We bungled the draft pick at QB, WR, if not for the defense keeping us in games we'd be even worse off. As currently constructed we have no elite offensive skill players.

Henry and Onwenu are the top FAs at OG and TE, so I would not say "no elite".

 

[Real fan 02]

Henry and Onwenu are the top FAs at OG and TE, so I would not say "no elite".

U think Henry is elite? Ownenu elite? They are tier 2 players if I'm being honest. Onwenu is one of the best o lineman in the NFL, but whom I wouldn't call elite. Henry is a good NFL TE.. but disappears to often. We've seen elite TEs gronk, Hernandez. So again no elite offensive players. We have " good " players not elite.

 

[mgteich]

U think Henry is elite? Ownenu elite? They are tier 2 players if I'm being honest. Onwenu is one of the best o lineman in the NFL, but whom I wouldn't call elite. Henry is a good NFL TE.. but disappears to often. We've seen elite TEs gronk, Hernandez. So again no elite offensive players. We have " good " players not elite.

The best OL's in the league are by definition "elite".

 

[mgteich]

Yup. We need to push all our chips (FA and the draft) in to restructure the roster. If the Pats bungle it, it will be years before the franchise recovers.

I don't think that we are pushing all the chips in as you suggest. If this were 2025 and we had a top QB with a year on the team, then that would more likely be the strategy.

IMO, we gain little by little by trashing 2027 and 2028 (using them as void years) just so we can sign an extra player or two in 2024. We will lots and lots of new players this year, without such extreme measures.

We will be restructuring the roster soon enough, almost entirely this year and next.

We will have changes to the roster in 2024, just not as much as we might get by using as much deferrals as we possibly can. One really only does that when a team has a 1-3 year window. Then the 4th year is sort of worthless.

That being said, we should be deferring much more that is the norm for the patriots.
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As an aside, one open question is how to structure the roster. Do we want a few $20M AAV players and lots of vet minimum players? This has not been the patriot way in the past.

 

[Real fan 02]

The best OL's in the league are by definition "eliete".

Jonah hill IMO is eliete lol as you spelled. I'd absolutely like him we need a LT and a RT.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't think that we are pushing all the chips in as you suggest. If this were 2025 and we had a top QB with a year on the team, then that would more likely be the strategy.

IMO, we gain little by little by trashing 2027 and 2028 (using them as void years) just so we can sign an extra player or two in 2024. We will lots and lots of new players this year, without such extreme measures.

We will be restructuring the roster soon enough, almost entirely this year and next.

We will have changes to the roster in 2024, just not as much as we might get by using as much deferrals as we possibly can. One really only does that when a team has a 1-3 year window. Then the 4th year is sort of worthless.

That being said, we should be deferring much more that is the norm for the patriots.
===============
As an aside, one open question is how to structure the roster. Do we want a few $20M AAV players and lots of vet minimum players? This has not been the patriot way in the past.

Mayo said we are going to "burn cash". I think the Pats are signing a lot of players. If the players are on 3 or 4 year contracts they will be around when the QB starts hitting his stride in 2 or 3 years.

 

[Real fan 02]

Mayo said we are going to "burn cash". I think the Pats are signing a lot of players. If the players are on 3 or 4 year contracts they will be around when the QB starts hitting his stride in 2 or 3 years.

I believe we need to make every effort to re-sign mills, Jennings, Wilson on defense .
On offense KB and Henry. I think Onwenu is getting the tag. Dugger will get paid in FA elsewhere I believe. Ridley and Hollywood brown at WR would do it.

 

[mgteich]

Mayo said we are going to "burn cash". I think the Pats are signing a lot of players. If the players are on 3 or 4 year contracts they will be around when the QB starts hitting his stride in 2 or 3 years.

We agree. You just think that he will spends lots more of future money that I do. We'll see a couple of months from now. We'll see how many $20M AAV players with 2 void contracts we sign. My guess is one at most.

 

[venecol]

I believe we need to make every effort to re-sign mills, Jennings, Wilson on defense .
On offense KB and Henry. I think Onwenu is getting the tag. Dugger will get paid in FA elsewhere I believe. Ridley and Hollywood brown at WR would do it.

I would bet money that most of that won't happen.

 

[mgteich]

I believe we need to make every effort to re-sign mills, Jennings, Wilson on defense .
On offense KB and Henry. I think Onwenu is getting the tag. Dugger will get paid in FA elsewhere I believe. Ridley and Hollywood brown at WR would do it.

Let's break this down.

THREE DEFENSIVE RE-SIGNINGS (Mills, Jennings, Wilson)
I would also like to all three back, although Mills is somewhat doubtful; I'd add Bryant.

TWO RE-SIGNS ON OFFENSE (KB, Henry)
I agree trying to re-sign both.

FRANCHISE TAG
I don't expect any.

DUGGER TO GO ELSEWHERE
I agree.

SIGNING OF RIDLEY AND BROWN
Other than Bourne, WR isn't a high priority in free agency.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I would bet money that most of that won't happen.

It will be very interesting to see how Mayo evaluates the current players. LB is the most interesting as he played it and now coached it. The talk for the last few years now has been the weakness a MLB. They did okay this season as opposed to 2021-2022. Does he share the same philosophy as Bill or does he go into a different direction and start to find guys with more speed/big play ability to eventually take over for Tavai and Bentley? Does he make splash to compliment Judon on the opposite side?

I see an offensive reset.

 

[signbabybrady]

It will be very interesting to see how Mayo evaluates the current players. LB is the most interesting as he played it and now coached it. The talk for the last few years now has been the weakness a MLB. They did okay this season as opposed to 2021-2022. Does he share the same philosophy as Bill or does he go into a different direction and start to find guys with more speed/big play ability to eventually take over for Tavai and Bentley? Does he make splash to compliment Judon on the opposite side?

I see an offensive reset.

I like Bentley and Tavai. And with Judon coming back this a pretty solid group.

I wouldn't be mad if Mayo went after another LB and stamped his mark on D. Bring back Dugger and add a DT and this should be a top ten D again.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Great discussion. The underlying question that comes out is what it means to burn cash. Is the team moving away from spending to the cap year without deferring money to future years in the attempt to be competitive year over year? Or is the team adopting the LA Rams model where the team spends over the cap by using future dollars. In either model I hope the team spends to the cap without deferred money this year and is prepared to go for it in a year or two after the QB is settled.

 

[Toofy]

Let's break this down.

THREE DEFENSIVE RE-SIGNINGS
I would also like to all three back, although Mills is somewhat doubtful; I'd add Bryant.

TWO RE-SIGNS ON OFFENSE
I agree trying to re-sign both.

FRANCHISE TAG
I don't expect any.

DUGGER TO GO ELSEWHERE
I agree.

SIGNING OF RIDLEY AND BROWN
Other than Bourne, WR isn't a high priority in free agency.

I agree with wide receiver part. Maybe this year is not to compete , so if we get lucky and draft our puka nacua in later rounds this year or if Thornton comes of age , wide receiver is not a priority considering that we are not even competing this year . Douglas will continue to grow in and Bourne should be a good complimentary piece along with henry . I expect juju to put all stops this year to remain relevant so he could end up being a decent wr 3. Parker is a lost cause .

If the receivers don't pan out this year we can try next year . I hope we trade down with chargers, grab an extra second if we are enamored with McCarthy. More likely than not we will pick top 8 next year so can grab an elite wr then and also be done with contracts of juju and parker so will have enough cap space to possibly sign higgins .