Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones

[PatsWSB47]

You can lead the league in GWDs and still finish last or near last. Derrick Carr and Matthew Stafford are near the top of the GWD list, with most of Stafford's coming while he played for the Lions. Still resulted in mediocre results for their teams.

GWDs combined with mediocre or poor play in the rest if the games gets you Carr Stafford. GWD combined with elite play gets you Brady and Montana

 

[Rob0729]

You can lead the league in GWDs and still finish last or near last. Derrick Carr and Matthew Stafford are near the top of the GWD list, with most of Stafford's coming while he played for the Lions. Still resulted in mediocre results for their teams.

Fact is that good to great QBs don't typically have as many opportunities to have game winning drives because their teams are usually up going into the fourth quarter. And typically, when they do have them, they are what people think of when a QB steps up and puts the team on their back and wins the game.

Below average to mediocre QBs have more opportunities because when they win games (which is rare) they are typically not winning by more than a TD and they are usually struggling to get that win even against bad teams. The Steelers had a bad offense last year and when they won games, they were close. That is why Pickett had the opportunities for game winning drives.

 

[Kasmir]

GWDs combined with mediocre or poor play in the rest if the games gets you Carr Stafford. GWD combined with elite play gets you Brady and Montana

Number of GWDs is just a longevity stat.

I calculated GWD/season for NFL QB's all time. Brady is 27th, Montana is 60th.

It's a meaningless stat as is. If you think about it, it actually penalizes QB's on great teams because they're usually playing from a lead and don't get as many opportunities as QB's on a mediocre team that is much more often playing from behind but not too far behind.

To "rescue" the stat and make it more relevant, it would need to be expressed as an efficiency stat, i.e. how many times a QB came from behind to win divided by realistic opportunities to do so. Even then it would be a team stat as much as QB stat.

I'm not about to waste my time trying to do that rescue work, especially as GWDs is only being brought up here now as a cudgel to beat up Mac Jones with.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Number of GWDs is just a longevity stat.

I calculated GWD/season for NFL QB's all time. Brady is 27th, Montana is 60th.

It's a meaningless stat as is. If you think about it, it actually penalizes QB's on great teams because they're usually playing from a lead and don't get as many opportunities as QB's on a mediocre team that is much more often playing from behind but not too far behind.

To "rescue" the stat and make it more relevant, it would need to be expressed as an efficiency stat, i.e. how many times a QB came from behind to win divided by realistic opportunities to do so. Even then it would be a team stat as much as QB stat.

I'm not about to waste my time trying to do that rescue work, especially as GWDs is only being brought up here now as a cudgel to beat up Mac Jones with.

GWD to Loss ratio is what you need.

 

[Triumph]

Yes, And again, Fields struggled with the slightest sign of pressure his entire NFL career.

Like your boy Mac.

And, again blame the Chicago OC. Fields was running the plays called.

Jones struggled for part of last year. He was able to avoid a lot of the pressure in his rookie season and season the stretch last year.

Jones, a garden-variety pocket passer, has been heralded for his footwork, pocket manipulation and quick processing ability, but as it turns out, getting pressure on him is the key to throwing off his mechanics, and therefore, his game.

There's a simple reason why Mac Jones has struggled in recent weeks | Sporting News

Cassel points to pass rush for Jones' struggles

www.sportingnews.com

WHOOPS

Well at least when the tackles actually blocked and not just let the defenders run right by them.

Sometimes the defense wins and the best QBs know how to avoid negative plays.

I don’t get your point except for you trying to bash Jones based on your biases and feelings and not the facts.

You and facts arent on the same planet.

The fact is Jones isn’t Brady in being able to manipulate the pocket, but he at least showed signs of having above average to great pocket presence.

The pass rush is coming this season too because defenses know that they can rattle Jones.

Its not going to change until Jones proves that he can make big plays under pressure.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The pass rush is coming this season too because defenses know that they can rattle Jones.

Its not going to change until Jones proves that he can make big plays under pressure.

This is true, and the opposition will continue to pack the middle of the field until the O can show they can play wide and down the field. Lots of pressure on BOB and Mac, but no surprises coming.

 

[BB8XSBW]

How do you spot a Mac Jones hater before even talking to one, you may ask? Simple. There are a few prerequisites to being a Mac Jones hater, but chief among them is looking like this:

 

[Rob0729]

Like your boy Mac.

And, again blame the Chicago OC. Fields was running the plays called.


Jones, a garden-variety pocket passer, has been heralded for his footwork, pocket manipulation and quick processing ability, but as it turns out, getting pressure on him is the key to throwing off his mechanics, and therefore, his game.

There's a simple reason why Mac Jones has struggled in recent weeks | Sporting News

Cassel points to pass rush for Jones' struggles

www.sportingnews.com

WHOOPS

Sometimes the defense wins and the best QBs know how to avoid negative plays.

You and facts arent on the same planet.


The pass rush is coming this season too because defenses know that they can rattle Jones.

Its not going to change until Jones proves that he can make big plays under pressure.

Your obsession with Jones is weird.

I already blamed the Chicago OC, but that doesn't change the fact that other than a small handful of games, Fields has been awful especially as a passer.

But then again, you want to quote one person's analysis that says in a few games in his rookie season that Jones was rattled by pressure as some kind of proof he struggled against pressure his rookie season. But if you actually read the article, it was an article claiming Jones had hit the rookie wall. And a few games in December he was dealing with pressure.

And yes, the best QBs avoid negative plays that is why in 23 years of playing, Tom Brady was never sacked not once. He never ever had a defender run unblocked to his blind side that he didn't feel the pressure and step up. To think otherwise is unthinkable. Silly me.

And defenses came for Brady because they knew that if they hit him enough, they could rattle him. That is the weakness of a pocket passer. It was when Brady was QB and it is now. Jones isn't in the same stratosphere as Brady, so that task is easier with him. But Brady still had the same weakness and defensive players would say it all the time.

 

[Chevy]

People on this board way overrate Pickett last minute TDs. A good QB wouldn't have needed a last minute TD against teams that scored 13, 10, or 17 points in a game.

(I know I am going to regret this ... )

So, TB's 49 (IIRC) comeback wins were due to him being a poor QB? No props for the competing offense or defense? No knocks on his defense?

Yes, judging a QB on these types of games can result in overrating them. But, you can also underrate them.

I think that, over the years, discussions here have really proven one fact about the NFL. Even with great individual performance, it is the ultimate team sport. Look at any big play (not just yards, but what the result meant): A back may have one guy to beat to get the job done, and makes a sick cut to do so. He gets all the glory. Why did he have one guy to beat? Because the other ten did their jobs. If just one blocker fails, it could mean two on one and a failed play.

Same in the passing game. If a receiver's route is designed to clear defenders out of an area / get them moving the wrong way and he doesn't run it correctly, coverage could be drawn to a spot that cancels two receivers out, or gets a screen blown up. One poor OL block and pocket time is cut in half.

Back on the last minute issue - I think it says that when it's down to the wire, this QB is going to do just enough to get the win - and so will everyone else. Does this mean Kenny is in TB or P-Manning territory? Nope - I don't think he's even near pre-Rams Stafford level. That said, he deserves some credit for those four, not in spite of what was a poor performance overall but because of it. He settled down and got the job done.

 

[Rob0729]

(I know I am going to regret this ... )

So, TB's 49 (IIRC) comeback wins were due to him being a poor QB? No props for the competing offense or defense? No knocks on his defense?

Yes, judging a QB on these types of games can result in overrating them. But, you can also underrate them.

I think that, over the years, discussions here have really proven one fact about the NFL. Even with great individual performance, it is the ultimate team sport. Look at any big play (not just yards, but what the result meant): A back may have one guy to beat to get the job done, and makes a sick cut to do so. He gets all the glory. Why did he have one guy to beat? Because the other ten did their jobs. If just one blocker fails, it could mean two on one and a failed play.

Same in the passing game. If a receiver's route is designed to clear defenders out of an area / get them moving the wrong way and he doesn't run it correctly, coverage could be drawn to a spot that cancels two receivers out, or gets a screen blown up. One poor OL block and pocket time is cut in half.

Back on the last minute issue - I think it says that when it's down to the wire, this QB is going to do just enough to get the win - and so will everyone else. Does this mean Kenny is in TB or P-Manning territory? Nope - I don't think he's even near pre-Rams Stafford level. That said, he deserves some credit for those four, not in spite of what was a poor performance overall but because of it. He settled down and got the job done.

They were playing different football in the NFL in 2002. That was when defenses still could play. And it is a huge difference playing a really good 2001 Rams defense than two of the worst defenses in the league in 2022 in the Browns and Raiders.

Again Pickett even in these games with game winning drives, played like garbage for most of these games. Again, he never scored more than one TD in a game last season. That is awful. Even Justin Fields had one game his rookie season where he scored two TDs and he was also awful.

Hell, Cameron Haywood just called Pickett out for not playing all four quarters. He has yet to put together a complete game.

 

[Joker]

How do you spot a Mac Jones hater before even talking to one, you may ask? Simple. There are a few prerequisites to being a Mac Jones hater, but chief among them is looking like this:

LMAO...nice pic of crawduncington...

 

[BB8XSBW]

LMAO...nice pic of crawducington...

That dude is a grotesque, immoral gargoyle with severe mental health issues.

And that's before you even consider his pedophile tendencies.

 

[Kasmir]

That dude is a grotesque, immoral gargoyle with severe mental health issues.

And that's before you even consider his pedophile tendencies.

Be careful, he's very sensitive to personal criticism. We don't want to hurt his feelings and scare him off -- do we?

 

[BB8XSBW]

Be careful, he's very sensitive to personal criticism. We don't want to hurt his feelings and scare him off -- do we?

No need scare him off. I believe he is already being detained in jail where he belongs.

If only he had kept his pedophile urges in check, then he could have just remained free like he was here:

Better to be grotesque, mentally ill, and free, then to be grotesque, mentally ill and in jail.