Kick returning - Front 7 bigger issue

[DaBruinz]

I've seen plenty of people complain about the kick returning. About how the Pats can't seem to get beyond the 20 and people are blaming the Kick returners. I've not seen anyone, other than myself, stop and question the poor blocking by the front 7 on the kick returns. When there are 7-8 of the opposing team within 3 yards of your KR when he's brought down, that is an issue.

The 3 blockers directly in front of the kick-returner can't pick up 7-8 guys. They have to be responsible for 3-4.. Beyond that and the KR is doomed.

I know Scott O'Brien was supposed to be this great STs coach, but I haven't seen it.. Kick Returning is poor. The Punt returning hasn't changed and has been really good (for the most part). Kick coverages are about the same. As are punt coverages..

 

[italia44]

I've seen plenty of people complain about the kick returning. About how the Pats can't seem to get beyond the 20 and people are blaming the Kick returners. I've not seen anyone, other than myself, stop and question the poor blocking by the front 7 on the kick returns. When there are 7-8 of the opposing team within 3 yards of your KR when he's brought down, that is an issue.

The 3 blockers directly in front of the kick-returner can't pick up 7-8 guys. They have to be responsible for 3-4.. Beyond that and the KR is doomed.

I know Scott O'Brien was supposed to be this great STs coach, but I haven't seen it.. Kick Returning is poor. The Punt returning hasn't changed and has been really good (for the most part). Kick coverages are about the same. As are punt coverages..

Stop screwing up the board with reasoned logic,DB.....The blocking is atrocious.....just look at the jets* ST's in comparison.BB is a guy who cherishes his so-called ST "specialists",but this year it looks like they are all running in mud.

BTW....check this out.....ever seen the Pats run a return-right?....it seams they're stuck on a middle return,that never breaks because of piss-poor blocking.....flat....no energy....time for some new,more dynamic coaching.:rocker:

 

[Patspsycho]

In the preseason, when I was at camp, I made a note that I didn't really like how O'Brien coaches. He is a screamer. He doesn't take players aside and talk to them individually. He shouts across to them, often in front of other players. I haven't been surprised in the slightest bit about the substandard performance on ST.

 

[RIpats88]

I hope Tiquan Underwood can provide some spark from that unit like Brandon Tate did last year as a returner.

Edelman/Slater seem to have slippery fingers and trouble getting past the 20

 

[strngplyr]

I've seen plenty of people complain about the kick returning. About how the Pats can't seem to get beyond the 20 and people are blaming the Kick returners. I've not seen anyone, other than myself, stop and question the poor blocking by the front 7 on the kick returns. When there are 7-8 of the opposing team within 3 yards of your KR when he's brought down, that is an issue.

The 3 blockers directly in front of the kick-returner can't pick up 7-8 guys. They have to be responsible for 3-4.. Beyond that and the KR is doomed.

I know Scott O'Brien was supposed to be this great STs coach, but I haven't seen it.. Kick Returning is poor. The Punt returning hasn't changed and has been really good (for the most part). Kick coverages are about the same. As are punt coverages..

It does get mentioned a lot in game threads, but you're right, no one formally has mentioned how poor the blocking is, at least I haven't noticed it.

I'm not sure why people constantly blame the returner for not making 7 or 8 guys miss at the same time. It should be at least slight obvious that something other than the returner is the issue.

I hope Tiquan Underwood can provide some spark from that unit like Brandon Tate did last year as a returner.

Edelman/Slater seem to have slippery fingers and trouble getting past the 20

No returner will really bring a "spark" unless he can make the entire opposing unit miss by being fast enough to completely reverse field. On Tate's return TD's you see actual lanes to run through, Sammy Morris pancaking fish, etc. The blocking is what is different. Tate showed some nice speed, but there are a lot of players capable of returning those if they see the field properly.

Currently you see half the defensive ST unit running free at the 20 before our returner can blink. There is no blocking.

 

[BelichickFan]

Our special teams haven't been the same since Seely left. Meanwhile Seely had good ST last year in Cleveland and a great unit this year in SF.

 

[Joker]

I watch the first half last week and come away wondering who the hell ANY of these assistant coaches are...yelling at a player in front of everyone else from across the field???..why? so he can impress BB with his hardassedness?...so THAT is what a "teaching" coach acts like? sounds like a d!ckhead in over his head to me...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Aside from punt coverage our units have been ass all season long.

Probably the worst ST performance in the BB tenure.

Even Ghost has been unreliable this year... thank God for Zoltan

 

[DaBruinz]

Aside from punt coverage our units have been ass all season long.

Probably the worst ST performance in the BB tenure.

Even Ghost has been unreliable this year... thank God for Zoltan

Our Punt Returns have been excellent, actually.. Other than that, your correct.

 

[brady199]

Well, I'd like to see if those "KR Blockers", start looking a little better when Vereen is returning kicks, assuming that he does at some point.

Woodhead and Ridley are not threats to take it all the way. Slater is a burner, but can be knocked off balance easily. McCourty who has only returned one kick this year is a legit KR as is Vereen IMO.

 

[Sicilian]

I feel like our kick coverage hasn't been bad. Nothing dynamic, but we're doing alright.

I'll admit I don't know enough about blocking schemes on kick returns to comment on what we need to do better, but my (extremely amateur) eyes tell me we're scheming to break one, when there has to be a way to scheme to get us consistently to the 30-35. With Brady, we don't need kick return TD's, and in fact they just put our defense right back out there after what were likely long drives (if the other team is kicking off, it means they scored points somehow, outside of one half-starting KO).

Anyone with better knowledge about these kinds of things? Is it even possible to scheme for big play over consistency in kick returns, or is it too fast and chaotic a play for that?

 

[PatsFan2]

I hope Tiquan Underwood can provide some spark from that unit like Brandon Tate did last year as a returner.

Edelman/Slater seem to have slippery fingers and trouble getting to the 20

There fixed it for ya.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Our Punt Returns have been excellent, actually.. Other than that, your correct.

They rank middle of the pack in YPR. So they havent been terrible or excellent. Definitely down from where it was towards the end of last year. You can make the case for them being fine but I wouldn't say excellent.

As far as all the Tate talk goes, if he were here it wouldn't make a difference. After the first Miami game last year (which was what, week 5?) he was about as good as the returners we have now. Our KR unit is awful as a whole

 

[DaBruinz]

They rank middle of the pack in YPR. So they havent been terrible or excellent. Definitely down from where it was towards the end of last year. You can make the case for them being fine but I wouldn't say excellent.

As far as all the Tate talk goes, if he were here it wouldn't make a difference. After the first Miami game last year (which was what, week 5?) he was about as good as the returners we have now. Our KR unit is awful as a whole

Let me re-phrase. Prior to the last game, Edelman had 9 returns for 107 yards. Or 11.9 YPR. The last game was brutal with 5 returns for 15 yards. Anything over 11 yards is excellent, though not outstanding.. I don't base the season on 1 game..

 

[Patsrock]

Our Punt Returns have been excellent, actually.. Other than that, your correct.

I would not say excellent. Avg 9.3 puts the Pats 15th in the league.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Let me re-phrase. Prior to the last game, Edelman had 9 returns for 107 yards. Or 11.9 YPR. The last game was brutal with 5 returns for 15 yards. Anything over 11 yards is excellent, though not outstanding.. I don't base the season on 1 game..

I don't either, I'm basing it off our totals this season which puts us tied for 15th in PR avg. On the bright side, we were doing pretty bad last year at PR at this time and then Edelman was fantastic over the 2nd half, hope to see the same turnaround.

 

[ernie_adams]

I'd have to agree the special teams units on the whole have been below average. The reason why punt coverage has been solid is because Zoltan is getting good hang time and Slater is right on top of the returner.