Justin Rogers

[patsox23]

I think, as with everything, the performance of Rogers and Lua, et al, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Lua, for instance, may have looked slow because he barely has the system in his head (let alone in his bones) and that always makes your instincts, your foot-speed, EVERYTHING slower. He also may have looked slow because, well, he IS slow. We'll have to see if he's TOO slow, and that will take at least a few more games.

As for Rogers, he had some good plays and some bum ones. We all hope both of these guys make the 53 because that means they've shown some playmaking ability and some "get it," which this LB corps needs in spades.

Woods is, without question in my mind, a LOCK to make the team and see some pretty solid minutes. And, yes, he's probably better than TBC ever was or was going to be. Mays is big-time iffy at this point.

 

[patsox23]

Yeah, although Bruschi made the transition from rush specialist to OLB, then ILB, he's built different than our DE/OLB prospects who are both quite tall.

I have a feeling they might fill the spot with an affordable vet FA.

I'm not sure why they'd bring in an affordable vet FA when the system has proven difficult for other vet FA's to pick up and that's with a full complement of OTA. I'd like to see how who-we-have does moving forward, rather than bring someone new in.

 

[mgteich]

Four of our 5 "starting" linebackers are veteran pickups. The last is a converted DE (led the country in sacks as I recall). My question would be why anyone would think that late round draft choices would be the most likely way to fill the future starting spots. I do know that we could strike gold, but bb never has. He doesn't draft linebackers on Day One. He'd rather trade the pick for players or into the next year than to actuall draft a linebacker.

We will continue to evaluate the 3-4 youngsters at linebacker each year. All will be inactive or play ST's and maybe in bb's 16th year wtih the patriots one will develop into a pro-bowl starter. The best we've done is Banta-Cain.

I'm not sure why they'd bring in an affordable vet FA when the system has proven difficult for other vet FA's to pick up and that's with a full complement of OTA. I'd like to see how who-we-have does moving forward, rather than bring someone new in.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Belichick coaches, (including when Tuna and BB were here) have had some success with developing low level LBs to play in that system. Marty Moore, Matt Chatham, TBC, and perhaps Alexander, all ended up as starters for short periods of time. Don't overlook mid- round pick Todd Collins was drafted and played as regular for several years. While clearly virtually all were not front line starters, they were good reserves and depth. Now it appears that they had found another in Pierre Woods last year. Although he was active for only 11 games he was with in one ST tackle of Larry Izzo who played in 19 games. i think Pierre could be a Todd Collins or better.

Now we are speaking of another possible "find" in Justin Rodgers. amidst all the hoopla about the regular play D, don't overlook that he had a fine ST tackle in the Tampa Bay game too.

I am still amazed by those who say BB won't draft a LB high. As I recall he was the Giant DC when Tuna and company were "picking the groceries". LT, Pepper Johnson, and Harry Carson were drafted. These were all hardly chopped liver selections. But it is also clear, that BB demands he get the maximum value from his high picks. Sometimes he is wrong in his pick, but he has gone for the gold every time.

 

[RayClay]

I'm not sure why they'd bring in an affordable vet FA when the system has proven difficult for other vet FA's to pick up and that's with a full complement of OTA. I'd like to see how who-we-have does moving forward, rather than bring someone new in.

I don't mean this year, PS23 and I agree we can't rule Lua out on such short notice, it just doesn't seem they are pursuing ILB types in the draft.

A Bruschi type convert would still be a few years away.

Just a guess on my part as the prospects that are shining are tall Vrable types.

 

[RayClay]

The Belichick coaches, (including when Tuna and BB were here) have had some success with developing low level LBs to play in that system. Marty Moore, Matt Chatham, TBC, and perhaps Alexander, all ended up as starters for short periods of time. Don't overlook mid- round pick Todd Collins was drafted and played as regular for several years. While clearly virtually all were not front line starters, they were good reserves and depth. Now it appears that they had found another in Pierre Woods last year. Although he was active for only 11 games he was with in one ST tackle of Larry Izzo who played in 19 games. i think Pierre could be a Todd Collins or better.

Now we are speaking of another possible "find" in Justin Rodgers. amidst all the hoopla about the regular play D, don't overlook that he had a fine ST tackle in the Tampa Bay game too.

I am still amazed by those who say BB won't draft a LB high. As I recall he was the Giant DC when Tuna and company were "picking the groceries". LT, Pepper Johnson, and Harry Carson were drafted. These were all hardly chopped liver selections. But it is also clear, that BB demands he get the maximum value from his high picks. Sometimes he is wrong in his pick, but he has gone for the gold every time.

Good perspective there. I'm hoping Woods is a better player than the ones you metioned, but he must be considered that caliber of backup until he proves it on the field. He's better athletically than the backups you mentioned, but I'd be happy if he was as good as Todd Collins.

Maybe the big Kahuna (Hi Russ ) linebacker is coming next year when they've made significant moves up in the draft for 2008

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Belichick coaches, (including when Tuna and BB were here) have had some success with developing low level LBs to play in that system. Marty Moore, Matt Chatham, TBC, and perhaps Alexander, all ended up as starters for short periods of time. Don't overlook mid- round pick Todd Collins was drafted and played as regular for several years. While clearly virtually all were not front line starters, they were good reserves and depth. Now it appears that they had found another in Pierre Woods last year. Although he was active for only 11 games he was with in one ST tackle of Larry Izzo who played in 19 games. i think Pierre could be a Todd Collins or better.

Now we are speaking of another possible "find" in Justin Rodgers. amidst all the hoopla about the regular play D, don't overlook that he had a fine ST tackle in the Tampa Bay game too.

I am still amazed by those who say BB won't draft a LB high. As I recall he was the Giant DC when Tuna and company were "picking the groceries". LT, Pepper Johnson, and Harry Carson were drafted. These were all hardly chopped liver selections. But it is also clear, that BB demands he get the maximum value from his high picks. Sometimes he is wrong in his pick, but he has gone for the gold every time.

Geez, talk about overlooking the obvious. I didn't include a mid-round pick named Tedy Bruschi...

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I saw the first preseason game and I think for once, the Pats coaches are telling the truth in regards to Rogers performance. He did do some things pretty good, but others , he needs a lot of work on.

My evaluation of Rogers is that he appears to have a plan when coming off the edge. He looks to have some decent instincts and football intellignece. I only saw him drop into coverage once and he needs much help there. (Granted he didn't have to do that in college, so it is going to take a while to learn.) In run defense, he was unable to seal the edge several times, but the good news here is it wasn't because he didn't know how, it was because he lacked the strength to hold the edge.

I would like to see him against better competition, but I think that he needs a year in the off season program and learning the system before we can start to evaluate Rogers properly.

PS: Lua is slow period! He has tremendous insticnts, the kind you can't teach, but he's so stinking slow. It's painful to watch sometimes.

Two rookies from the first preseason game that caught my eye, big time. Elgin and Oldenburg. They played against much better talent and really looked solid. Both need to get bigger and much stronger, which Wocick should be able to help with, but both looked very promising, especially Elgin. Oldenburg looked better at OG than OT.

 

[patpatriot]

Two rookies from the first preseason game that caught my eye, big time. Elgin and Oldenburg. They played against much better talent and really looked solid. Both need to get bigger and much stronger, which Wocick should be able to help with, but both looked very promising, especially Elgin. Oldenburg looked better at OG than OT.

It'll be a shame if we have to cut either of them cause the OL-challenged Jets will probably snap them up...that little traitor Mangini!

 

[DaBruinz]

The Belichick coaches, (including when Tuna and BB were here) have had some success with developing low level LBs to play in that system. Marty Moore, Matt Chatham, TBC, and perhaps Alexander, all ended up as starters for short periods of time. Don't overlook mid- round pick Todd Collins was drafted and played as regular for several years. While clearly virtually all were not front line starters, they were good reserves and depth. Now it appears that they had found another in Pierre Woods last year. Although he was active for only 11 games he was with in one ST tackle of Larry Izzo who played in 19 games. i think Pierre could be a Todd Collins or better.

Now we are speaking of another possible "find" in Justin Rodgers. amidst all the hoopla about the regular play D, don't overlook that he had a fine ST tackle in the Tampa Bay game too.

I am still amazed by those who say BB won't draft a LB high. As I recall he was the Giant DC when Tuna and company were "picking the groceries". LT, Pepper Johnson, and Harry Carson were drafted. These were all hardly chopped liver selections. But it is also clear, that BB demands he get the maximum value from his high picks. Sometimes he is wrong in his pick, but he has gone for the gold every time.

My understanding is that when Parcells was the Coach an BB was the DC with the Giants, they weren't the ones actually picking. They had their say, but the GM was the one who did the buying. I remember this coming up in many parcells discussions.

One of the reasons that I believe BB "experiments" with the later round picks is that if he screws up, its not much of a waste, where as with a higher round pick, it could set the team back significantly.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Belichick coaches, (including when Tuna and BB were here) have had some success with developing low level LBs to play in that system. Marty Moore, Matt Chatham, TBC, and perhaps Alexander, all ended up as starters for short periods of time. Don't overlook mid- round pick Todd Collins was drafted and played as regular for several years. While clearly virtually all were not front line starters, they were good reserves and depth. Now it appears that they had found another in Pierre Woods last year. Although he was active for only 11 games he was with in one ST tackle of Larry Izzo who played in 19 games. i think Pierre could be a Todd Collins or better.

Now we are speaking of another possible "find" in Justin Rodgers. amidst all the hoopla about the regular play D, don't overlook that he had a fine ST tackle in the Tampa Bay game too.

I am still amazed by those who say BB won't draft a LB high. As I recall he was the Giant DC when Tuna and company were "picking the groceries". LT, Pepper Johnson, and Harry Carson were drafted. These were all hardly chopped liver selections. But it is also clear, that BB demands he get the maximum value from his high picks. Sometimes he is wrong in his pick, but he has gone for the gold every time.

Todd Collins was drafted in 1992. Collins did blossom under Parcells, but Belichick wasn't the DC. Belichick was in Cleveland, coaching the Browns.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Todd Collins was drafted in 1992. Collins did blossom under Parcells, but Belichick wasn't the DC. Belichick was in Cleveland, coaching the Browns.

Good point. I stand corrected...