Josh McDaniels exposed

[Carpentier]

Who knows if Josh McDaniels is a good offensive coordinator? Its pretty easy looking good with Brady, Moss and Welker. Charlie Weis was described as a offensive genius but his Notre Dame offense now is totally anemic. The truth is that every OC looks good with a great quarterback.

 

[nepatz11]

If you read every post I wrote at no point did I even COME CLOSE to blaming him in any way for yesterday's loss. That would be dumb in light of the horrible defense. Like I said I have gradually been growing to question him as a top notch coordinator over the past few years and all I wrote was I am "begining to question him" not blaming him for anything. just starting to wonder how much of our success was Brady/Moss etc and not JM

 

[Rob0729]

If you read every post I wrote at no point did I even COME CLOSE to blaming him in any way for yesterday's loss. That would be dumb in light of the horrible defense. Like I said I have gradually been growing to question him as a top notch coordinator over the past few years and all I wrote was I am "begining to question him" not blaming him for anything. just starting to wonder how much of our success was Brady/Moss etc and not JM

Well, he was pretty successful even with Reche Caldwell as the top WR. I think even more than ever especially watching play around the league that he is one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the league. I don't question the guy all that much at all.

Cassel had his second start since high school last decade. I think under many other OC, he would have five or six picks right now. A lot of OCs wouldn't have the patience he has with Cassel to not make him play outside himself. A guy lile Mike Martz would have Cassel throwing all over the field before he is ready and having him completing a lot of passes to defenders.

I think Cassel can be a pretty good game manager, but he has yet to show that he can carry the offense and win the game when the rest of the team is struggling. How do you expect McDaniels to be calling plays much better with that limitation? Cassel needs to get used to the game speed and timing before you can ask him to consistently air out the ball.

I have hopes that by midseason Cassel will be up to speed and McDaniels can open up his playbook. Until then, McDaniels' hands are pretty much tied as to what he can do. His offense is ball control and doesn't have a high gear just yet.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I've questioned McDaniels for a long time - but c'mon... does anyone really think his game plan called on the Offense to do their jobs so poorly - or give any credence to the fact that the Defense didn't do their jobs either?

With a game like this one can't make any real judgments about the gameplan when it was executed so poorly. I think we can say with great confidence that Josh's strategy did not involve having the OL allow so much pressure on Cassell.

And as much as I think that throwing deeper more often can help ease some of that pressure, the OL still needs to do their job and there was nothing I saw yesterday that made me think they could protect Cassell long enough to give him time to get it to Moss deep.

So there's just no way one can draw any conclusions from this game.

 

[Jackson 2]

Sorry if there is another McDaniels thread but I did not see one so I thought I would start it up.


Anyone else starting to question this guy?

Only speaking for myself, but the answer is "no."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Take it easy because I never said McDaniels was bad. I for one have been questioning him for a long time since he got here. Sometimes I think they do things that make no sense i.e last years superbowl which I will always argue McDaniels could have done better in. Now we are seeing how he will do without the best QB in the game running the show for him. It is fair to question whether his success was the result of good coaching or of having the best QB EVER and a great WR corps.

Our OL got manhandled in that Superbowl and short of blocking for them, and I'll grant you he's a little undersized for that compared to Charlie, there was nothing an OC can do about that.

Success is relative. This team is 40-11 in his 3+ seasons and 51 regular season games as OC here, and that includes 32 games without Randy Moss, 16 with Reche Caldwell, and 3 without Tom Brady...

How many OC's can top that track record...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Well, he was pretty successful even with Reche Caldwell as the top WR. I think even more than ever especially watching play around the league that he is one of the best Offensive Coordinators in the league. I don't question the guy all that much at all.

Cassel had his second start since high school last decade. I think under many other OC, he would have five or six picks right now. A lot of OCs wouldn't have the patience he has with Cassel to not make him play outside himself. A guy lile Mike Martz would have Cassel throwing all over the field before he is ready and having him completing a lot of passes to defenders.

I think Cassel can be a pretty good game manager, but he has yet to show that he can carry the offense and win the game when the rest of the team is struggling. How do you expect McDaniels to be calling plays much better with that limitation? Cassel needs to get used to the game speed and timing before you can ask him to consistently air out the ball.

I have hopes that by midseason Cassel will be up to speed and McDaniels can open up his playbook. Until then, McDaniels' hands are pretty much tied as to what he can do. His offense is ball control and doesn't have a high gear just yet.

What people fail to grasp is unlike the fan base and media Belichick isn't asking or expecting him to. Because unlike some here including mg, he understands that except in rare instances you can't have that player stashed on your roster or acquire him in season because he's unaffordable or unavailable since if he could do that with any consistency he's starting elsewhere...

 

[mcgraw_wv]

I think although our points last year were high... the play calling is always unimaginable... it's boring, predictable, and only the great athletic ability of Welker, Moss, and Brady made that offense zoom last year... not play calling...

We have lost of alot of creativity from the Weis years on our offensive play calling...

Remember against the Steelers a few years ago? We used to direct snap to Faulk... when was the last time you saw that... ??

He get's a pass, but the play calling is a snooze fest, and frustrating to watch, the entire game, for each game this year, has been watching an offensive "Im scared" game plan... too safe with everything, even the runs are super predictable... The one end around with Welker being the expection...

 

[Rob0729]

I think although our points last year were high... the play calling is always unimaginable... it's boring, predictable, and only the great athletic ability of Welker, Moss, and Brady made that offense zoom last year... not play calling...

We have lost of alot of creativity from the Weis years on our offensive play calling...

Remember against the Steelers a few years ago? We used to direct snap to Faulk... when was the last time you saw that... ??

He get's a pass, but the play calling is a snooze fest, and frustrating to watch, the entire game, for each game this year, has been watching an offensive "Im scared" game plan... too safe with everything, even the runs are super predictable... The one end around with Welker being the expection...

People are too in love with trick plays. I want the Pats to win, not to be dazzled with a lot of trick plays. Personally, I think Weis was too in love with the trick play and got us in trouble many times (how many double reverses did he run that would blow up in the Pats' face, quite a few).

I'm sorry, people look at the lack of trick plays as unimaginative and predictable. I totally disagree. An imaginative offense to me is an offense is one that is designed to take advantage of the the other team's defensive weaknesses whether it is running the 10 times in a row right up the middle or a bunch of flea flickers, hooks and laterals, and statue of liberty plays. That's what McDaniels does. He develop gameplans and calls plays to put the offense in the best position to win. That is imaginative.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

People are too in love with trick plays. I want the Pats to win, not to be dazzled with a lot of trick plays. Personally, I think Weis was too in love with the trick play and got us in trouble many times (how many double reverses did he run that would blow up in the Pats' face, quite a few).

I'm sorry, people look at the lack of trick plays as unimaginative and predictable. I totally disagree. An imaginative offense to me is an offense is one that is designed to take advantage of the the other team's defensive weaknesses whether it is running the 10 times in a row right up the middle or a bunch of flea flickers, hooks and laterals, and statue of liberty plays. That's what McDaniels does. He develop gameplans and calls plays to put the offense in the best position to win. That is imaginative.

The Same slant over and over again, always seems to fail when it's 3rd and 8 in the 4th quarter though...

That's where I have the issue... It's the same slants, the same outs, I can't remember the last time I saw a deep post patern... or hitting anyone in stride...

The same RB dump offs... You can get creative by switching up the formations, or motion out to a dump off anything but the same damn quick slant, and rb dump...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think although our points last year were high... the play calling is always unimaginable... it's boring, predictable, and only the great athletic ability of Welker, Moss, and Brady made that offense zoom last year... not play calling...

We have lost of alot of creativity from the Weis years on our offensive play calling...

Remember against the Steelers a few years ago? We used to direct snap to Faulk... when was the last time you saw that... ??

He get's a pass, but the play calling is a snooze fest, and frustrating to watch, the entire game, for each game this year, has been watching an offensive "Im scared" game plan... too safe with everything, even the runs are super predictable... The one end around with Welker being the expection...

I believe it was against the Chargers on a two point conversion to tie a playoff game we had to win... Just like they used the the statue of liberty play to get up on the JAGS last January (although with Brady completing 92% of his passes on the day I might have saved that twist for February). Charlie didn't tend to go gadget much in the regular season either beyond 2001. Those are tougher plays to execute. It's Bill's offense and they just manage and implement it for him. He's a conservative coach who prefers to save his most creative moves for the one and done games and rely on sound execution for the most part.

 

[ScottLK]

Sorry if there is another McDaniels thread but I did not see one so I thought I would start it up.


Anyone else starting to question this guy?

I am ..... and was in the second half of last season.

I can spot a Patriots running play from 50,000', going 500 mph. I don't like the lack of disguise (and it's resultant execution). I think nothing has been done to establish a real running game and as soon as we have some success at running we start passing again.

Randy Moss was in single coverage for a large number of plays, especially in the second half (including first downs) ......... that means the opposition either knows when to double cover him (lack of disguise), the pass rush will reach the QB or that they don't believe Cassel's (who has a cannon arm) can reach Moss. Exclude arm strength. If it's the pass rush then a max protect switch could've sent multiple bombs to a single covered Moss ........... but we didn't. It's playcalling and the lack of technique we use on running the ball.

Maybe Brady shielded McDaniels, I don't know ...... but I don't like the play calling ......... the sliding TEs, in an obvious running play ......... last year we had Brady and our weapons. Now we don't. Right now, nobody is afraid of Moss, even though Cassel can reach him.

How many TDs do we have? Cassel isn't all that good but we should still have scored a bunch with our personnel. Why can't our OL protect, they didn't suddenly become stupid. Something is fundamentally wrong with the offensive scheme and it's play calling.

 

[O.Z.O.]

People are too in love with trick plays. I want the Pats to win, not to be dazzled with a lot of trick plays. Personally, I think Weis was too in love with the trick play and got us in trouble many times (how many double reverses did he run that would blow up in the Pats' face, quite a few).

I'm sorry, people look at the lack of trick plays as unimaginative and predictable. I totally disagree. An imaginative offense to me is an offense is one that is designed to take advantage of the the other team's defensive weaknesses whether it is running the 10 times in a row right up the middle or a bunch of flea flickers, hooks and laterals, and statue of liberty plays. That's what McDaniels does. He develop gameplans and calls plays to put the offense in the best position to win. That is imaginative.

I can't stand trick plays. They're about on a par with me as a team that goes plays the same style every game, and then wonders why they come up short (Steelers, bears).

I was watching the 'Skins/Cardinals games yesterday (I live in the 'Skins market), and in a red zone possession the 'Skins threw out of a running formation and ran out of a passing formation (the run netted a TD). Simple things like this only have to be effective a couple times to throw a team off. I can't believe that Jim Zorn's offense is that much better designed then the Pats.

 

[LeonPowe]

The quicker the Pats get rid of this loser, the better. Too bad he didn't take whatever job was offered to him.

 

[carolinatony]

"If Josh is exposed, then so are Bill Belichick, Dom Capers, and
Dean Pees. The three defensive gurus couldn't cope with the
direct snap to the running back all game long."


That was very surprising!

 

[wpdougie2180]

WHERE ARE THE SCREEN PLAYS? This has been frightenly obvious since the Super Bowl? Someone asked what he could have done in that game since he didn't play OL, well maybe call a damn screen, everyone knows when the d pass rush is getting to your quarterback constantly you call a screen to slow them down, for example the Jets game after 3 straight sacks he finally calls a screen and what happened? It was a 22 yard gain. Everyone brings up the records the team broke as evidence he's good so that would make Brian Billick a great OC too then right since he was the OC for the team that the Patriots broke records RIGHT?

 

[Seneschal2]

I'd just like to see the plays he calls -- executed. Let's start with blocking first -- then take it from there and see what happens.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Josh McDaniels exposed.... BB exposed....

I want Jessica Simpson exposed....

 

[ClevTrev]

Amazing that one loss can spawn so many negative, "standing out on the ledge"-type posts.

I seem to recall 2003, Bills 38 Pats 0, people went ballistic with Lawyer Milloy gone. The sky was falling.

Get a grip!

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

I am tired of people knee jerk defending McDaniels.....I have questions and had questions last year in the midst of the plethora of points put up by the Pats.

First of all, if anybody...and I mean anybody....has an issue with me saying the play calling during the SB was abysmal, then I really have not hope for you. Not because you disagree with me, but because it was so obviously poor game planning, and worst of all, adjustments. Sorry....that is what I think.

As for this year....I am not ready to hang the guy for the Fish game....the Pat's Defense was offensive to me. But....do any of you think that its about time for them to let Cassell throw the ball down field.....maybe even a little bit? The Offense is very predictable and if me being a dumbasrse fan can see and call it during games, what do you think the DC's of the other teams will do?

Bottom line, while I don't denigreate BB or McDaniels, it is patently obvious that Brady is the most important part of the team by far....not even close. I have faith in BB.....but McDaniels needs to show he can do it, and by it, I mean put up more than 20 points in a game when he doesn't have the greatest QB in the history of the game covering for him.