John Tomase

[PatsFanSince74]

I take it you live here at ground zero within driving distance of Foxboro.So do I. For me and mine what Tomase did was so wrong,his timing so malicious, that it burned our hearts to the core.

I think, though I'm not sure, that Rob lives in another region and therefore has a perspective that differs. I can respect that. I don't agree with it but he's entitled to his viewpoint.

I view Toomassive as a combination of Benedict Arnold/Judas and I'll carry that to the grave.

I actually live closer to the "real" ground zero in Manhattan than to Foxboro and that means I saw the damage Tomass did to the Franchise name and reputation outside the New England area. I agree, it was malicious in its timing and the fact that he didn't bother to check the veracity of the story can only lead reasonable people to question his motives.

As the beat writer for one of the Patriots' two hometown papers, he gave the rumors instant credibility. His "imprimatur" was all that the Schlereth's and Faulks of the world needed to rip the organization and Belichick from coast to coast. Tomass justly deserves that we should hound him whenever and wherever he tries to pass himself off as a journalist.

 

[Ring 6]

Well if you are going to make innacurate statements like Tomase lied about the story and he made it up when the story was around long before he was covering the Patriots, maybe you should stop responding. Sorry, I am not pro Tomase. I am just not going to turn him into a monster and make up things about him just because I don't like him. I am trying to be objective about the guy. What he did was wrong, but he didn't lie or make up a story especially since most of us who were paying attention already knew about the rumor back in September of 2007.

Who else said they had a source to confirm the story? Are you saying that was true?

 

[Koma]

So, the team's beat writer can publish any unsubstantiated rumor at any time because it isn't his lie, it's someone else's?

"It's not a lie if you believe it" - George Costanza

 

[Rob0729]

One more post and I am done and I will try to address everything to respond:

1.) I believe Tomase had a source that did tell him that the taping of the walkthrough happened. I don't believe he made it up. Tomase said he knew about the rumor since 2006 and someone confirmed to him it was true after Walsh came forward. Where he was wrong was he did not do the proper independent verification before running with a story this big. That is a huge journalistic violation probably in the top three after plagerism. I am not excusing that. Unfortunately, the news has become a place where it is better to be first and apologize after the fact if you are wrong rather than get it right in the first place. I never absolved Tomase of his role in all this, but Mike Fish and Greg Bishop were even worse in this regards because Matt Walsh refused to provide them any proof whatsoever that he had any evidence against the Patriots yet they reported he did anyway. Fish even refused to publish this story because of that fact until he was scooped by Bishop. Again, I don't think Tomase's motives were malicious in any way, they were just stupid and wreckless. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it doesn't make him this evid Judas who knowingly sold out the team to make a name for himself when he knew the story was false though.

2.) The Matt Walsh had nothing to do with Tomase's story. Tomase never said he had the tape nor that he was the one who did the videotaping. The fact that the following three months revolved around Walsh shows that the other two stories were more significant than people on this board give them credit for. Besides, Sal Alosi and tripgate lasting in the public eye for two to three weeks last season and that was a relatively nothing thing. So I don't know how anyone can say the Times and ESPN pieces went under the radar.

3.) Tomase did not play a big role in the Super Bowl loss. Neither did Specter, Bishop, Fish, or Easterbrook. That is just loser talk to avoid accepting the obvious truth, the Pats were beat by a team who were hungrier and came in with a great game plan and just outplayed them. Yes, the Pats' staff were grilled on Saturday, but the gameplans were long done and the practices were through. Tomase didn't make Brady suseptible to the inside rush, Neal get injured, the o-line in general get manhandled by the Giants' d-line, Samuel drop an easy INT which would have ended the game, David Tyree catch an improble catch which was one of the few good catches of his career, etc. Tomase is an easy scapegoat to ignore the simple fact that the Pats were outplayed and outcoached. Belichick is the king of copartmentalization. I am sure
Tomase was the farthest thing from his mind come Super Bowl Sunday.

4.) I am sure that other reporters heard from the same source that the rumor of the taping of the walkthrough was true, but they didn't run with it because they couldn't get independent verification of that. That is the proper way of running a story and Tomase didn't do that. Again, a big journalistic crime not to get independent verification. That crime falls a lot on the editors who are responsible for fact checking and making sure that a piece reaches a journalistic standard.

5.) Personally, I think Tomase has already paid a huge debt. A debt that so many others involved in the second Spygate saga have long since got absolved. People like Greg Bishop, Matt Walsh, Arlen Specter, Mike Fish, and Greg Easterbrook have been virtually forgotten and Tomase has taken on their crimes in the eyes of a lot of Pats fans. That is the only reason why I am remotely defending the guy. Again, I listed him as fifth in my evil list (and I forgot to include Matt Walsh on that list). Yet many seem to make Tomase #1 on a list of one people and even Matt Walsh and Arlen Specter don't even get on those lists.

6.) I still think Specter is my most evil because his abuse of his Congressional powers which started the Friday before the Super Bowl sickens me not only as a Pats fan, but as an American.

Ok, I am done. We are all going around in circles. I am sure people will respond to this post saying I am defending Tomase and making excuses to absolve him which I am clearly not. I am just pointing out a lot of people's misplaced anger.

 

[flasox27]

After all the apologia presented by the Tomase syncophants, the fact remains that he wrote a story that was false and he lacked the journalistic intergrity to research it properly due to his ambition to make a name for himself. While others took part in the character asassination of the Patriots, he in his position as their beat writer was the Brutus who the stabbed them in the back. If that fat sack of sh-t had a scintilla of integrity, he would have resigned and gone as far away as possible from Foxboro as possible. he is qualified work for only a publication like the National Enquirer where a lack of journalistic integrity is a plus. The only reason I guess he is still around is that apparently nobody told him that there are places in other parts of the country where he can stuff his lying mouth with Dunkin Donuts.

 

[ausbacker]

Rob0729 that's a lot of content for something which I can simply say I don't agree with you and Tomase deserves all the vitriol directed his way he gets (along with the other players).

He knew what he was doing, he gambled, lost and ****ed up. You reap what you sow and he can have it.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

One more post and I am done and I will try to address everything to respond:

1.) I believe Tomase had a source that did tell him that the taping of the walkthrough happened. I don't believe he made it up. Tomase said he knew about the rumor since 2006 and someone confirmed to him it was true after Walsh came forward. Where he was wrong was he did not do the proper independent verification before running with a story this big. That is a huge journalistic violation probably in the top three after plagerism. I am not excusing that. Unfortunately, the news has become a place where it is better to be first and apologize after the fact if you are wrong rather than get it right in the first place. I never absolved Tomase of his role in all this, but Mike Fish and Greg Bishop were even worse in this regards because Matt Walsh refused to provide them any proof whatsoever that he had any evidence against the Patriots yet they reported he did anyway. Fish even refused to publish this story because of that fact until he was scooped by Bishop. Again, I don't think Tomase's motives were malicious in any way, they were just stupid and wreckless. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it doesn't make him this evid Judas who knowingly sold out the team to make a name for himself when he knew the story was false though.

2.) The Matt Walsh had nothing to do with Tomase's story. Tomase never said he had the tape nor that he was the one who did the videotaping. The fact that the following three months revolved around Walsh shows that the other two stories were more significant than people on this board give them credit for. Besides, Sal Alosi and tripgate lasting in the public eye for two to three weeks last season and that was a relatively nothing thing. So I don't know how anyone can say the Times and ESPN pieces went under the radar.

3.) Tomase did not play a big role in the Super Bowl loss. Neither did Specter, Bishop, Fish, or Easterbrook. That is just loser talk to avoid accepting the obvious truth, the Pats were beat by a team who were hungrier and came in with a great game plan and just outplayed them. Yes, the Pats' staff were grilled on Saturday, but the gameplans were long done and the practices were through. Tomase didn't make Brady suseptible to the inside rush, Neal get injured, the o-line in general get manhandled by the Giants' d-line, Samuel drop an easy INT which would have ended the game, David Tyree catch an improble catch which was one of the few good catches of his career, etc. Tomase is an easy scapegoat to ignore the simple fact that the Pats were outplayed and outcoached. Belichick is the king of copartmentalization. I am sure
Tomase was the farthest thing from his mind come Super Bowl Sunday.

4.) I am sure that other reporters heard from the same source that the rumor of the taping of the walkthrough was true, but they didn't run with it because they couldn't get independent verification of that. That is the proper way of running a story and Tomase didn't do that. Again, a big journalistic crime not to get independent verification. That crime falls a lot on the editors who are responsible for fact checking and making sure that a piece reaches a journalistic standard.

5.) Personally, I think Tomase has already paid a huge debt. A debt that so many others involved in the second Spygate saga have long since got absolved. People like Greg Bishop, Matt Walsh, Arlen Specter, Mike Fish, and Greg Easterbrook have been virtually forgotten and Tomase has taken on their crimes in the eyes of a lot of Pats fans. That is the only reason why I am remotely defending the guy. Again, I listed him as fifth in my evil list (and I forgot to include Matt Walsh on that list). Yet many seem to make Tomase #1 on a list of one people and even Matt Walsh and Arlen Specter don't even get on those lists.

6.) I still think Specter is my most evil because his abuse of his Congressional powers which started the Friday before the Super Bowl sickens me not only as a Pats fan, but as an American.

Ok, I am done. We are all going around in circles. I am sure people will respond to this post saying I am defending Tomase and making excuses to absolve him which I am clearly not. I am just pointing out a lot of people's misplaced anger.

Nice try, deagle.

 

[Keegs]

isn't this guy the turd that was trolling this board and then Shmessy Id'd him? (approx 4 yrs ago?)

or was that another turd writer?

wow, you guys have some ********s (rhymes with "wickheads") covering sports in Mass....

 

[RayClay]

isn't this guy the turd that was trolling this board and then Shmessy Id'd him? (approx 4 yrs ago?)

or was that another turd writer?

wow, you guys have some ********s (rhymes with "wickheads") covering sports in Mass....

Different guy. That guy was on the Patriots radio station.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

One more post and I am done and I will try to address everything to respond:

1.) I believe Tomase had a source that did tell him that the taping of the walkthrough happened. I don't believe he made it up. Tomase said he knew about the rumor since 2006 and someone confirmed to him it was true after Walsh came forward. Where he was wrong was he did not do the proper independent verification before running with a story this big. That is a huge journalistic violation probably in the top three after plagerism. I am not excusing that. Unfortunately, the news has become a place where it is better to be first and apologize after the fact if you are wrong rather than get it right in the first place. I never absolved Tomase of his role in all this, but Mike Fish and Greg Bishop were even worse in this regards because Matt Walsh refused to provide them any proof whatsoever that he had any evidence against the Patriots yet they reported he did anyway. Fish even refused to publish this story because of that fact until he was scooped by Bishop. Again, I don't think Tomase's motives were malicious in any way, they were just stupid and wreckless. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it doesn't make him this evid Judas who knowingly sold out the team to make a name for himself when he knew the story was false though.

2.) The Matt Walsh had nothing to do with Tomase's story. Tomase never said he had the tape nor that he was the one who did the videotaping. The fact that the following three months revolved around Walsh shows that the other two stories were more significant than people on this board give them credit for. Besides, Sal Alosi and tripgate lasting in the public eye for two to three weeks last season and that was a relatively nothing thing. So I don't know how anyone can say the Times and ESPN pieces went under the radar.

3.) Tomase did not play a big role in the Super Bowl loss. Neither did Specter, Bishop, Fish, or Easterbrook. That is just loser talk to avoid accepting the obvious truth, the Pats were beat by a team who were hungrier and came in with a great game plan and just outplayed them. Yes, the Pats' staff were grilled on Saturday, but the gameplans were long done and the practices were through. Tomase didn't make Brady suseptible to the inside rush, Neal get injured, the o-line in general get manhandled by the Giants' d-line, Samuel drop an easy INT which would have ended the game, David Tyree catch an improble catch which was one of the few good catches of his career, etc. Tomase is an easy scapegoat to ignore the simple fact that the Pats were outplayed and outcoached. Belichick is the king of copartmentalization. I am sure
Tomase was the farthest thing from his mind come Super Bowl Sunday.

4.) I am sure that other reporters heard from the same source that the rumor of the taping of the walkthrough was true, but they didn't run with it because they couldn't get independent verification of that. That is the proper way of running a story and Tomase didn't do that. Again, a big journalistic crime not to get independent verification. That crime falls a lot on the editors who are responsible for fact checking and making sure that a piece reaches a journalistic standard.

5.) Personally, I think Tomase has already paid a huge debt. A debt that so many others involved in the second Spygate saga have long since got absolved. People like Greg Bishop, Matt Walsh, Arlen Specter, Mike Fish, and Greg Easterbrook have been virtually forgotten and Tomase has taken on their crimes in the eyes of a lot of Pats fans. That is the only reason why I am remotely defending the guy. Again, I listed him as fifth in my evil list (and I forgot to include Matt Walsh on that list). Yet many seem to make Tomase #1 on a list of one people and even Matt Walsh and Arlen Specter don't even get on those lists.

6.) I still think Specter is my most evil because his abuse of his Congressional powers which started the Friday before the Super Bowl sickens me not only as a Pats fan, but as an American.

Ok, I am done. We are all going around in circles. I am sure people will respond to this post saying I am defending Tomase and making excuses to absolve him which I am clearly not. I am just pointing out a lot of people's misplaced anger.

As someone else said, "nice try."

But you fail to address the central issue, viz., that it was Tomass, as the Patriots beat reporter for one of the two major Boston Dailies, who gave voice to and implicitly validated all the nonsense that was floating around but never would have dominated SB weekend without the power of his abused byline. Without Tomass' reporting, the rest was just a lot of grumbling under the radar screen. No Tomass, no story, no SB weekend fuss, no distractions for the Patriots.

As for your points, 1) is a good example of a fundamental tenet of quantitative logic, "From a False premise anything follows." I can begin a syllogism with the words I "'believe' that leprechauns attend the pots of gold at the end of the rainbow," and posit anything else I want subsequently. Logically, this is what you have done.

2) Without Tomass, the Walsh story was page five not page one material.

3) Of course the game was played and settled on the field, but I dare your or anyone to argue that the Patriots wouldn't have been better off without the distractions caused by Tomass' lies and that the outcome of a game played without those distractions is unknowable.

4) See 1) above and substitute "I am sure" for "I believe."

5) That's your opinion.

6) More opinion, but it's nice to see Patriotism on Memorial Day weekend. What Tomass did sickens me as a human being.

 

[Rob0729]

As someone else said, "nice try."

But you fail to address the central issue, viz., that it was Tomass, as the Patriots beat reporter for one of the two major Boston Dailies, who gave voice to and implicitly validated all the nonsense that was floating around but never would have dominated SB weekend without the power of his abused byline. Without Tomass' reporting, the rest was just a lot of grumbling under the radar screen. No Tomass, no story, no SB weekend fuss, no distractions for the Patriots.

As for your points, 1) is a good example of a fundamental tenet of quantitative logic, "From a False premise anything follows." I can begin a syllogism with the words I "'believe' that leprechauns attend the pots of gold at the end of the rainbow," and posit anything else I want subsequently. Logically, this is what you have done.

2) Without Tomass, the Walsh story was page five not page one material.

3) Of course the game was played and settled on the field, but I dare your or anyone to argue that the Patriots wouldn't have been better off without the distractions caused by Tomass' lies and that the outcome of a game played without those distractions is unknowable.

4) See 1) above and substitute "I am sure" for "I believe."

5) That's your opinion.

6) More opinion, but it's nice to see Patriotism on Memorial Day weekend. What Tomass did sickens me as a human being.

I forgot one point in my last post that I was going to just forget posting, but it goes directly to your points. So I will make the adendum and leave.

Everyone here is speaking in absolutes (including myself), but the fact of the matter is we are all going on opinions and nothing more. We do not know how the Matt Walsh scandal would have gone without Tomase's story. I will dispute it would have been page 5 stuff because Friday the 1st, it was the lead story virtually everywhere. Whether the story had any legs beyond that is debatable, but we have seen other teams get front page for relatively minor cheating scandals like the Jets/Sal Alosi scandal. Much of the media especially ESPN hates Belichick and to say they wouldn't have back burnered Matt Walsh and Arlen Specter's fight to expose a cover up is a little slanted of an opinion. I mean the NY media have made front page stories about allegations from a bitter divorce that Belichick was the other man in an affair.

Beyond that none of us know anything for sure. We do not really know how it affected the team's preparation although most of the preparation was done. We don't know how this story would have unfolded as it went along without Tomase's piece. We don't know what Tomase's sources told him and how credible they were at the time (obviously they weren't credible since they were wrong, but whether they were a person who might have been in position to know it was true or not).

People need to dismiss my opinions as opinions and sell their opinions as facts. Facts in this incident are few and far between because few people were talking. Even when Dennis and Callahan gave Brady a chance to trash Tomase after the incident, Brady was only interested in trashing ESPN for their role in both Spygate stories. So who knows.

And by the way, considering theTomase haters think I made a good effort, I must have hit it out of the park since

 

[shmessy]

There's a big bright line between innocent mistake and culpable negligence; as a reporter Tomass didn't check his sources or validate his story and crossed that line.

You are letting the editors and management of the Boston Herald off pretty easy there.

The Herald should have been put out of existence for that.

 

[Jackson 2]

You are letting the editors and management of the Boston Herald off pretty easy there.

The Herald should have been put out of existence for that.

What a devastating development for the world of literacy that would have been.