It's more about Tom Brady than Wes Welker!!!

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Sep 21, 2012.

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  1. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

    The Quick hit:

    How do you force Brady to implement the new offensive strategy and target Lloyd......keep Welker off the field!!

    Long Winded Explanation:

    In 2010-11, the few teams that were successful slowing the Pats offensive machine were the teams that successfully flooded the center of the field with extra DBs (yes, push up the middle was an issue also). BB and McDaniels signed Lloyd as the weapon that would open up the field both horizontally (sideline routes, backshoulder throws) and vertically (bombs). Their plan was/is to force Ds to abandon the zone flooding. Great idea in theory but the plan needs the right WR ...and a QB willing to step out from his comfort zone.(I can already see all your eyes rolling in the back of your head).

    The term "binky" gets thrown around this site quite often....and rightfully so. The Brady to Welker combo is lethal....and when the ***** hits the fan, Brady finds his guy, to the tune of 120 catches last year with a 16 catch total in one game alone. Add in Gronk's 99 catches and AHern's 69 last year, and it is clear their are plenty of binkies available. The problem is....all 3 patrol the same space...the middle of the field.
    Look at the situation from BB's perspective.....He sees how Ds defend his passing game ....and he has also seen his QB go from a guy that spread it around to "who's ever open" to a QB that is locked on 3 excellent players. With several wasted #2 draft picks, a slew of vet WRs that never made the roster, and a $6 mill waste of space all tossed in the garbage pile.....and now a significant long term investment (Lloyd) that management believes will force teams to change up their D plans.....BB needs to make this work.

    But how do you prevent Brady from starting the season right where he left off....looking for Wes? Easy......keep Wes off the field. I'm betting BB looked at the schedule and felt comfortable enough limiting Welker's reps in order to get Lloyd involved immediately and develop a comfort level between the WR and QB. Wes' second half success vs Ariz clearly demonstrates that the Brady/Welker combo is money in the bank ( bad pun ) and BB knows this....always has. The Welkerless O is more about retraining Brady to expand the field.
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    There is are some theories that Brady either develops a rapport with you quickly or he ignores you and throws to guys he is comfortable with. That is why the Pats tried to get him and Ochocinco on the same page quickly last year, but it was obvious that it wasn't working.

    So there really could be some validity to take away Brady's binky to force him to throw to other guys like Lloyd and Edelman to develop that rapport.
  3. Ivan

    Ivan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #75 Jersey

    This and the desire to really be dedicated to running the ball are the most rational explanations for an irrational situation, which keeping your 2nd best offensive player off the field is.
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    If that is their plan, it should be implemented in practice, not in games.

    For games that count, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to specifically avoid the things that made you one of the most prolific passing offenses of all time from 2007-present.
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Well, blame the new CBA for that. You really can't work a lot of things out in practice anymore with only 15 padded practices allowed for the entire season. That is less than one practice a week.
  6. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey


    he has seen his QB go from a guy that spread it around among some average receiving options, focusing on "who's ever open"

    to a QB that does the same damn thing, but with an assortment of vastly superior, versatile, and hard-to-defend options.

    Now we have added yet another option in Lloyd. There is no reason to then take away what has been the best option, the one who was most often the answer to the question "who's open?" for the past five years.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  7. PP2

    PP2 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    That is ridiculous. Lloyd and Welker play different positions. It was in fact, Hernandez, who was taking away Welker's snaps by lining up in the slot (Y) so you never knew if you were getting a 12 or 13 personnel (Ace vs. Posse).
  8. Ivan

    Ivan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #75 Jersey

    Unfortunately i don't think that's much of an option. The Patriots may have to force feed a change in offensive philosophy on Brady as he has become accustomed to being able to go out and throw them to wins week after week, year after year by using the options he is most comfortable with. There will be growing pains with the change in emphasis but I think they need more balance to win the Super Bowl. The talent is there to create a balanced offense, and with their questions on the OL a change to a more physical and run oriented offense would certainly help them in the larger scheme of things, although it may well cost them some games. If Belichick is betting they can weather the difficulties and still be there in january then I
    Would have to agree with him. i don't see anyone else winning this division and if they can effectively create a really balanced offense to go with this defense then i think their chances will be better in the play-offs and SB.
  9. SyN65

    SyN65 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Disagree. The pats lose one guy on offense and they fall apart. Its pretty pathetic actually. Happened when welker was out for the Baltimore game a few years ago, when Gronk was out for the SB, and again last week when Hernandez was out.

    Its like the Pats have no contingency plan if a player gets injured. Brady losses one weapon and one of the best offenses in the becomes one of the worst. Brady panics when he's under pressure. And the crazy thing is people still complain about how "tom needs more help".

    Pats have a HOF QB, the best TE in the game, the best slot WR in the game, an emerging #1 RB, and a VERY good deep threat/receiver in Lloyd. Other teams would kill to have what the Pats have on offense...
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    Brady broke the all-time record for passing yards. Welker had the 19th best receiving yards season ever. Gronk broke the yardage and TD records for TEs.
    Why would you need to implement something to force the GOAT to do things differently?

    Brady need to be retrained. He is given progressions on every play call and throws to who is open.
    In other words, your entire theory is misinformed and way off the mark.
  11. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #12 Jersey

    The "new" offense is not going to work with an unstable O-line. Heck the "old" offense struggled with pressure.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  12. JJDChE

    JJDChE 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Brady throws to Welker with a guy in his hip pocket way too often. In a way I can't blame him, but I think it hurts the team, in general, that he doesn't often go past Welker in his progressions.
  13. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 Supporter Supporter

    You might be right and I might be flat out naive. But I think that Brady is a better QB than that. Brady just isn't, from everything I can observe, a "me first" kind of guy.
  14. goheels22002

    goheels22002 Supporter Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    I completely agree. The OP is absurd.

    First off, Welker has to stop dropping the ball. Welker has drops in both of the first two games including a "drop" against Tennessee where the ball hit him in the face mask. Welker needs to get his head out of his ass and step up. This is probably not the week for Welker to have a big game - the Ravens are very tough in short coverage and the replacement refs aren't calling the rough stuff at the line of scrimmage. He'll have a long day.

    Second, Lloyd is purely a wideout and has 13 catches in two games - just two fewer than his predecessor had all last season. He's on pace for 100 catches and 1,000 yards almost exactly. He's fine. If Lloyd came out in the first two games who was his replacement? Slater? Keep Lloyd out there and throw him the rock.

    The Edelman noise about Welker seemed right to me until I ran back the game and noticed that Edelmen was split wide most of the time. Having Branch back is a huge upgrade. Edelman wasn't taking Welker's place. Hernandez was.

    Branch and Lloyd make for a very nice pair of wideouts with Welker in the slot. The Ravens either have to run a nickle all game long or put a linebacker on Welker. All three receivers have to get off the line and take their CBs with them to open up room for the TEs and Ridley.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  15. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    So it is not a good idea to throw to the players who catch the highest percentage of the passes that are thrown their way, if they are "open" by NFL standards? For last year, the rank order was, I believe, Wes, Gronk, then Aaron.

    It was the same rank order when listed by receptions per dropped pass, where Welker finished 6th in the league in receptions per drop (30.5), Gronkowski 15th (22.5), and Hernandez tied for 19th (19.8).

    Pats pass-catchers reliable, dependable - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    Those are the people I certainly so not want to throw to less often, if they are open, unless someone else proves to be equally efficient or even more efficient when open. Julian and Brandon have not shown that to me yet, though I realize it's a small sample size. They also haven't shown me that they can even get open regularly. Lloyd has in the past, though, so I have hopes.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? Supporter

    No Jersey Selected

    This is one of the more ridiculous theories I've ever heard...
  17. That's got to be correct except for one case - when you are redesigning the offense.

    I'm afraid that this is just the result of Josh's tinkering. He obviously would not consciously do anything to hurt the team's chance to win, but he could unconsciously do that. He did it in Denver and I think maybe in St. Louis and my take away from all that was that he is a radical tinkerer. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

    Sigh, Josh did draft Tebow, jettison a better QB and a top ten receiver in Denver. He ripped that team apart in many ways. I think we may be feeling a dash of that pepper.
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    It's not about Brady being "me first" if the theory is true. Brady wants to win. If he doesn't trust you, he doesn't think throwing to you is the best way to win or move the offense. He isn't going to waste a pass to throw to a guy he doesn't trust to throw the ball. The theory/rumor is Brady is not very patient with guys to prove that they at least have the potential to develop a rapport with him.

    There were rumors and theories that Moss didn't catch a pass in his last game here not so much because he was written out of the gameplan, but Brady lost trust in him and refused to throw his way.
  19. kudzif

    kudzif On the Game Day Roster

    I have to say you theory might have merit
  20. Ivan

    Ivan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #75 Jersey

    Actually a more run oriented offense would definitely help the OL, they would much rather go forward and dish out the hits than go backwards and take them, and they are much better off with less predictability in regards to throwing all the time. I have confidence in Scarnecchia that this OL will be good this season and think a more balanced offense will help this team get over the final hurdle.
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