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Is Jason Garrett getting too much crap for being conservative?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Oct 17, 2011.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jason Garrett is getting a lot of crap for being conservative at the end of the game from everyone including the owner of the Cowboys. I don't necessarily agree with the particular play calls, but I think he actually employed the right strategy on that drive before Brady's game winner. Here are my reasonings:

    1.) The Cowboys had the lead and had an opportunity to force the Pats to burn their last two time outs and one first down would have at best given the Pats less than one minute and no timeouts to tie or beat the Cowboys.
    2.) The Cowboys defense has been giving Brady and the offense fits all day. It wasn't like the Pats were scoring at will yesterday. The way the defense was playing, the safe bet was to play conservatively on offense avoiding the big turnover and letting the defense win the game.
    3.) It is these situations where Romo usually spits the bit.

    Maybe I just am not head coach material, but the way the game was going. I would have trusted by defense to stop the Pats more than trusting Romo.

    You can argue that the particular running plays were the wrong ones to run, but I thought it was the smart move to be conservative and take away the clock and time outs.

    I guarantee you if they aired it out and Romo threw three incomplete passes allowing the Pats to keep all their time outs, Garrett would have been killed for not just running the ball.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  2. SyN65

    SyN65 Rookie

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    Not really, Cowboys could have won that game but they didn't play to win. Giving the ball to Brady with that much time was a huge mistake that falls on Garret's shoulders.
  3. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's like 4th-and-2.

    If it works, everyone's talking about it; if it fails, it's pitchfork-and-torches time.
  4. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But if they passes and failed, they would have given the Pats more time and more time outs.

    I would agree if the Pats' offense wasn't sputtering, but prior to that game winning drive no one on this board had confidence that Brady could lead a game winning drive like he did.
  5. Fball

    Fball Rookie

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    He was in "play not to lose" mentality. A more aggressive coach - like a Sean Payton - wouldn't have played it that way.

    First, the decision not to take advantage of 1-1 w/ Dez near the goal was inexplicable. That's on Romo, but he may be coached that way.

    And the decision to just run 3x, even after losing yards, and being content punting the ball away, was waaaaaay too conservative. You can do that against teams like the Redskins or Bucs...not against the Pats. You have to put a team like the Pats away when you can, and not give Brady any time (see: Bills).
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've heard the second guessing on D&C and Mike & Mike this morning and I consider it bull.

    You have have held the Patriots to 1 TD all game. You have the 4th rated defense. So why take the chance of a turnover, giving the Patriots a short field to work with.

    The Patriots had to go 80 yards against a top defense. Garrett did not make a bad call, Brady just is MR. Clutch when the stakes are high.
  7. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    Can you imagine what these same people would be saying today had Romo been picked? They would be killing Garrett given Romo's recent 4th quarter meltdowns and he already had a pick and could have had two more.

    The one thing they could have done was to go play action to the left and have Romo roll out to the right with the instructions that if his one and only read is covered tuck it down and run. I was actually worried before the series started that Dallas might make this call and then Romo runs for 8 setting up a situation where they run it twice up the gut trying to get the two yards.
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW, the play calling didn't cause a false start penalty on third down making it a difficult situation of 3rd and 18. If it was 3rd and 13, they might have passed, but 3rd and 18 is too much to risk to air it out protecting a lead inside the 2 minute warning with the Pats' offense sputtering.
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's my take. If they let Romo throw and he had three incompletions or an interception, Garrett would have been killed for not being conservative and letting his defense who has stopped Brady most of the game win the game for the Cowboys.
  10. captain insano

    captain insano Rookie

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    isnt this the pats area of the board? visiting lockerroom?
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Garrett is really in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation with Romo. I do think he's not the right HC for that team though. He's trying to coddle them over the rough patches. Listening to his presser where he was accentuating the positive including ON OFFENSE was pathetic... The Cowboys organization suffers from an entitlement mentality that permeates the entire roster to begin with. Telling them how well they performed overall even though they came up short just feeds that and in the end gets the HC axed...
  12. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is related to the Patriots game. Why would this be a visiting locker room? I am not asking if Jim Schwartz is getting too much crap for his play calling vs. the 49ers.
  13. Rusty Coupe

    Rusty Coupe Rookie

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    Somebody on one of the Cowboy's boards said , "the Lions beat the Cowboys twice".

    Garrett gambled on the first two running plays and it didn't work out. Then with the false start on 3rd down he thought the better option was to let the defense stop Brady, he rolled snake eyes.
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Garrett being the wrong guy for the job is a separate issue, but you are right. I expect Rob Ryan to be the Cowboys head coach next year. Watching the game yesterday, you would have thought he already was.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  15. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    the cowboys were stoping Brady befor that last drive where Brady was pretty much perfact, you have to give your defense a shot to win the game
  16. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    Their D was playing pretty well all game long, and the Pats had a long way to go. You have to think your odds (as Dallas) were pretty good in that situation.

    However, one huge advantage the offense has there is that they KNOW it's 4-down territory. Keeping this NE offense from getting 10 yards in 4 plays is a very, very tall order. And 2:30 is a lot of time for Brady to move the team downfield, given 4 downs for every 10 yards.

    In short, I think i'd have tried to throw at least once if I was them.
  17. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You and Rob are right.
    The Dallas D had just given the Pats a 3 and out.
    The D had held us to one TD.
    Sure it's TFB but it's 80 yards and you have the game defensive momentum in your favor.
    Have the critics noted that the Dallas D smacked Brady hard that drive and had the Pats receivers so well covered except on one play to Woodhead such that only perfectly placed throws would result in gains? The coach wisely took time off the clock such that only the very best QB play could beat them. TFB removed his head from where it had been and went all world over their asses.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  18. jlu52

    jlu52 Rookie

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    History has illustrated that if you give too much responsibility and creative license to Romo at critical points in the game, he has a tendency to make his worst mistakes at said times. Maybe Garrett was playing not to lose because the Cowboys have already lost 2 games this year going all out. They've experienced the agony of defeat this year twice when certain victory was a foregone conclusion by most people watching. Like others have said, Garrett was in a damned if he does or doesn't here.
  19. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    He can't win really. If he lets Romo throw and he throws a pick, that is the end of their season as he would have lost Romo. There is no way anybody recovers from that.
    They want him to run, but only run when facing an offense that is struggling. Ok! The Pats were struggling. They had not scored the whole second half. Why can't my defense stop them again with no TO and just over 2 mins of time remaining?
    Jerry Jones also did not help. Hard to win with an owner like that.
  20. ctpatsfan77

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    What is "that"?

    Brady gave away the LOLphins game in 2004, and bounced back nicely from that. . . .
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady wasn't 31 at the time with a history of coughing up furballs at the most inopportune time and a questionable work ethic.
  22. vuudu

    vuudu Rookie

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    Oh you missed my point entirely. Do you know how many games Romo has given away this season in the fourth quarter? Add an INT to that list and he is gone. Dallas media will kill him, his teammates will start to doubt him.... Jerry Jones will definitely say something he should only say behind close doors to the media....
    Are you getting me now?
  23. Nunchucks

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    That was absolutely the correct call by Dallas. Run the clock and force the Patriots to drive the length of the field. Their defense was rocking all day and the Patriots were having a really rough time moving the ball.

    Jerry Jones is a clown for second guessing the correct call.

    All you people saying "play to win" are the ones who probably would lose more games by taking unnecessary risks.

    Throw the ball and you can have three bad things happen...incomplete which stops the clock, interception, sack or sack+fumble.

    I would have ra the ball 3 times and then trusted my 4th rated defense t make the stop like it had been doing al game long.o
  24. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess the real question, then, is why things suddenly started clicking for NE on that last drive (Brady went 8-for-9 on that last drive versus 19-for-32 the rest of the way).
  25. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    I think Garrett made the right call based on how the game unfolded up to that point. His defense had stifled Brady and the offense for the majority of the game and had just forced them to a three and out the series before. Had he became aggressive and turned the ball over, he would be getting killed even worst this morning. He gave his defense, who had been winning the game for him, a chance to close it out.
  26. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Previous drive: 3-and-out.

    Drive before that: Brady hurried into a pick.

    2nd-half points: 0.

    I give *credit* to Dallas for playing clockball, forcing the Pats to burn timeouts and putting the game on their D to stop Brady one more time like they had the prior two drives. The only critique I have is the lack of originality of the running plays. If I was a Cowboys fan, I would have liked to see an end-around or at least a fake end-around to spread out the D or catch the D off-guard. The way the Pats played the first down was a classic "We're selling out to stop the halfback" with guys run-blitzing like crazy; An end-around there, a QB fake handoff/bootleg or (if having the balls to do it) a screen would have likely ended the game.

    Regards,
    Chris
  27. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Couple of considerations:
    - Could the Cowboys reasonably expect to just line up and gain 10 yards on three running plays? Obviously not...so expecting a first down that way is not really on the table.
    - What would the time situation be if you run 3 times and punt? About 2:30 with one timeout...which is an eternity when you consider all the Pats needed was a FG.

    The Cowboys were defending 10 yards and 3 downs up to that point. Adding another down alters the dynamic significantly.

    As for the Cowboys giving the offense fits, the Pats had 8 drives before that last one. 5 of them ended with the Pats in FG position...which is all they needed to tie the game.

    Another thing to realize is that Dallas got a 52 yard net on the punt exchange...which is more than they reasonably should have expected. So the plan should have assumed limited gains on 3 runs, Pats getting the ball back at their 30 with 2:30 left and 1 timeout (plus 2 min warning), only needing 40 yards for a reasonable FG attempt to tie. With those assumptions, time really isn't a factor. If time isn't a factor, playing to drain time and timeouts isn't a good or even sensible plan.

    Dallas was going to have to turn over the Pats offense (downs or turnover). Even if Romo had thrown 3 incomplete quick passes, the Pats would have been in the same situation with 3:10 and 3 timeouts (plus 2 min). Is that really that big a difference?

    It is all about measuring positive vs. negative outcomes in both situations. If you can trust Romo not to throw a pick, the negatives are pretty much identical. The positives for running the ball 3 times are pretty weak (very small chance of getting a 1st down). The positives for throwing 2 or 3 safe/short passes are significant (likely close to 50% chance of getting a first down based on the defense in front of them).

    If Romo is that fragile, then get another QB. There are a lot of QBs that could have put up 16 points on the Pats yesterday with that offense. You pay a QB big bucks to win the game on the final drive. The Cowboys were determined not to let Romo lose that game. But in trying to protect Romo, that is exactly what happened.
  28. dhamz

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    Unless you have zero confidence in your QB and skill position players you cannot do what Garrett did there. And if that is the case, bench the guy.

    There was way too much time left and the Pats only needed a FG. No matter what had gone on to that point in the game, there aren't 10 guys (prob not 5) in the history of pro football Garrett wants to see with the ball less than Tom Brady. To run your offense in a way that ensures he gets the ball back with more than 2 minutes left is suicide.
  29. Wretch

    Wretch Rookie

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    Payton has Drew Brees, Garrett has Tony Romo at QB. Garrett may want to be aggressive but his QB has a history of making bad decision under pressure. Also the penalty killed any real chance to make a first down so Garrett ran as much time off the clock as he could.
  30. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    When Dallas was at the Goaline and Romo passed it off to Choice instead of looking for one of his several talented WRs,I knew right there that Garrett does NOT trust Romo to get the job done.

    That kind of stuff will get the Cowboys nowhere.
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