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Is Dominique Rodger-Cromartie Worth the #7 Pick?


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Go ahead and question my posts, it's your right, and I don't care. Honestly, I stopped reading 90% of your posts because they all say they same thing. But there's a lot more evidence that says DRC won't be a stud in this league than there is that he will be. The question really is what makes you think that he WILL be? There's nothing except the senior bowl, where the cornerbacks always have the advantage over receivers, and a Scouting Combine.

I'm sorry, nothing trumps on-field competition. Scouts and Evaluators are susceptible to the same buzz and paranoia that fans are. Plus they pretty much copy each other anyway. All it takes is one to start a huge PR campaign, and the rest pick it up. Deion loves the kids athleticism. Every year a few guys "remind him of him". I can pretty much guarantee Deion hasn't looked at one game tape of Tennessee St.

The Pats are in desparate need of a CB. I hope they draft one and he becomes an All-Pro, regardless who it is. However, the fact remains that DRC is a workout wonder who's enjoying a meteoric rise, and is a very risky player to take high in the first round.
I'm with you on this analysis. Hopefully the Patriots will be able to trade down into the second half of the first round and pick up another 2008 second round draft pick or another 2008 third round draft pick (along with an additional 2009 draft pick). I'd rather select Antoine Cason at cornerback than some Division II prospect.
 
Is Rodgers-Cromartie two rounds better than Antwaun Molden?

Molden's Stats:
Ht: 6-1
Wt: 198
40 yd: 4.39
20 yd:2.55
10 yd: 1.5
Bench: 23 reps of 225
Vert: 37 1/2
Broad: 10'9"
20 yard shuttle: 4.14
3 cone: 6.85

Rodgers-Cromartie:
Ht: 6-2
Wt:184
40 yd: 4.33
20 yd: 2.51
10 yd: 1.49
Bench: 17 reps of 225
Vert: 38 1/2
Broad: 10'11"
20 yard shuttle: 4.17
3 cone: 6.74

They played in the same conference as well (Ohio Valley). Their numbers are ridiculously similar (where Molden trails ever so slightly in almost all drills) except Molden is bigger (by 14 pounds despite giving up an inch to Dominique) and stronger (23 to 17). One write up says he was hardly thrown on in '07 but still managed 9 passes defensed and two picks (compared to 11 and 2 for RoCro). I'm seeing almost identical players except one is named Cromartie; why does one deserve to be considered top ten pick overall and the other projects third or fourth round?

Pretty simple, you and I have only been able to see DRC at the combine and in the Senior bowl, these scouts have had the luxury of watching both of these guys perform both in person and on tape and here you go, here's your answer as to why DRC is projected to be 2 rounds better: I know that Molden improved this prior 40 (shown below) at the combine and yes I know that this data is "pre-combine" but it's based on 2004-2007 game tape. So if you project it out, DRC had slightly better overall combine numbers, this combined with the game-scouted analysis on the two of them is why DRC goes top 14 and Molden at best sneaks into the bottom of Round 2, more likely R3.

Antwaun Molden

He is a solid, not spectacular athlete. He has good size and not great, but adequate speed (4.54-40). He has a smooth backpedal and already has the ability to cover most NFL receivers. Molden is best suited to play in zone coverage, because he takes good angles while on pursuit. He has decent hands for interceptions, but sometimes questionable instincts. He is not a physical player, letting receivers run through without much contact and ball carriers tend to overpower him as well. He does not react quickly with slow downs in and out of breaks. Molden does not shed blocks well and questions are already raised about his durability and the fact that he did not shine at a lower level.

DRC

Rodgers-Cromartie is an experienced three year starter. He is very athletic, with a good football frame and great straight line speed (4.38-40). He reacts quickly and is also good at recovering speed, accelerating with real burst. He has good leaping ability and usually takes good angles while in pursuit. But he also plays with a swagger and forgets quickly. He is better in zone coverage than man to man schemes. Dominique needs to add strength because he is not physical enough. He also needs to improve his mechanics; his level of competition was a concern until his Senior Bowl performance.

Dominique is an outstanding athlete. There were concerns about how he will perform against better athletes, but those doubts were laid to rest with impressive practice sessions leading up to the Senior Bowl. Dominique was easily the best defensive back in the game. His performance earned him the Under Amour New Prototype Award. He still needs to learn how to play one position, but with better coaching and more experience, he should develop into an elite player in the NFL.

Also: Notice who's missing below (Mr. Molden, he was beaten out by his teammate Derrick Huff )

Five Ohio Valley Conference football players have been named to the Associated Press's (AP) 2007 Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) All-American Team:

The players include first-team selection Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (DB, Tennessee State), second-team selections Larry Shipp (WR/RS, Tennessee Tech) and Derrick Huff (DB, Eastern Kentucky) and third-team picks Gavin Hallford (K, Jacksonville State) and Pierre Walters (DL, Eastern Illinois).
 
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Ok guys, I am so sorry. I had no idea you guys caught so many Tennessee State games over the past few years, now i know why he's already worthy of being called "the next great shutdown corner"......:rolleyes:

When i said overhyped i meant he's being overhyped on this board. Honestly, i don't think our CB issues are going to be solved with a high CB pick. If anything it's going to be free agency and some of our current young corners taking most the reps next season. There's no doubt that Rodgers-Cromartie is one of if not the best CB prospects in this draft class. But you have to remember he is just a prospect. Realistically do you see BB and Pioli gambling away a first round pick on a CB from a 1-AA school who looked mediocre in a few of his games? I just think too many people are putting too much stock into a rather unproven guy who is suppose to be the "savior" of our secondary in his rookie season! I just read another recent thread that stated how Asante was the 20th ranked CB prospect in the 03 draft. With the Corner class so deep this year i'd imagine that they'll find a quality CB somewhere in the later rounds that will fit the system. And hey if i'm wrong and it turns out DRC is the next Deion Sanders/Champ Bailey you can **** on me all you want next season. :rocker:
 
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Chris Long won't last to #7. Let's stay on topic. You can always create your own, Draft Chris Long thread if you'd like.

Wow, you mean you know exactly how the draft is going to go? Then enlighten us, tell us the whole draft before it happens, I am tired of waiting anyways. :rolleyes:
 
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Its hard to argue what we have seen about DRC, but we just havent seen that much. You cant assume the tape is going to reveal hi lite after hi lite. Most importantly, WE DONT NEED AN ALL PRO CB! We dont need the best "rated" CB in the draft. Asante Samuel was the 20th(!!)rated CB coming out. He played nickel til Poole got hurt. He built himself into a pretty good player.
You can have the best genes in the world but if you BUILD yourself into that player it is not going to just "happen". There is a HUGE risk/reward with the #7 pick, we NEVER risk a first round pick. That is why we are continually good. Even if we go the next best OL, as long as he plays and knows his role he can be a Patriot. And just because we interviewed him differently than other teams doesnt mean we liked what he had to say....
 
With that said, and, again, with starting WR stability, I expect the Patriots pick in the latter half of round one will most likely be Boston College powerful RT Gosder Cherilus. This gives them immediate protection for Tom Brady.

Ugh, Cherilus isn't very good. He holds too much and, while he's massive and has potential, he isn't very athletic and has sloppy footwork. He wasn't the best player on the BC line this year. Just because he's a local product from Somerville doesn't mean the Patriots should take him.

If Ryan Clady is available at #7 (I don't think he will be, but you never know), I'd grab him in an instant. Usually I'm not cool with offensive line picks because they're sort of boring, but Clady has the potential to be scary good.
 
Wow, you mean you know exactly how the draft is going to go? Then enlighten us, tell us the whole draft before it happens, I am tired of waiting anyways. :rolleyes:

Like I said, the subject is off topic. If you want to devote a topic to your binky, Chris Long, this is an open forum so go ahead and make a new thread. Now let's get back to talking about the subject of this thread, DRC.

Its hard to argue what we have seen about DRC, but we just havent seen that much. You cant assume the tape is going to reveal hi lite after hi lite. Most importantly, WE DONT NEED AN ALL PRO CB! We dont need the best "rated" CB in the draft. Asante Samuel was the 20th(!!)rated CB coming out. He played nickel til Poole got hurt. He built himself into a pretty good player.
You can have the best genes in the world but if you BUILD yourself into that player it is not going to just "happen". There is a HUGE risk/reward with the #7 pick, we NEVER risk a first round pick. That is why we are continually good. Even if we go the next best OL, as long as he plays and knows his role he can be a Patriot. And just because we interviewed him differently than other teams doesnt mean we liked what he had to say....

I take it you are squarely in the anti-DRC camp?
 
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Its hard to argue what we have seen about DRC, but we just havent seen that much. You cant assume the tape is going to reveal hi lite after hi lite. Most importantly, WE DONT NEED AN ALL PRO CB! We dont need the best "rated" CB in the draft. Asante Samuel was the 20th(!!)rated CB coming out. He played nickel til Poole got hurt. He built himself into a pretty good player.
You can have the best genes in the world but if you BUILD yourself into that player it is not going to just "happen". There is a HUGE risk/reward with the #7 pick, we NEVER risk a first round pick. That is why we are continually good. Even if we go the next best OL, as long as he plays and knows his role he can be a Patriot. And just because we interviewed him differently than other teams doesnt mean we liked what he had to say....

Ah right and everyone thought Robert Gallery was a safe pick also.

Look, the entire draft is a crap-shoot. No-one knows anything and anything can happen, from the Huey Richardson's to the Blair Thomas's to the Bruce Picken's, it's all a crap-shoot.

You can't go into the draft, drafting "not-to-lose" so to speak, that reminds me of the "prevent-defense" which always "prevents a victory". Teams can't be afraid that some guy might have a high bust probability. Every team in the league has drafted Round 1 busts, every team has, some worse than others and others more often than others.

To me, a guy like DRC not only fits a glaring need and our greatest need, he has the highest upside of any person in the draft. I know one team that won't be afraid to take him at #10 and that's the Saints, so why would we or should we be afraid to take him at #7. You want to talk about "Bust" potential, how about a guy like Glen Dorsey, highly rated DT's have the highest bust probability of any position next to RB's and QB's. I would be much more worrisome over taking Dorsey, he could turn out to be the next Jonathan Sullivan/Jimmy Kennedy.

If you draft out of fear and stay on the safe track, good luck, there are no safe picks, if you fear making a top 10 pick, then don't even trade down in round one, just get out of the 1st round and simply draft 2's, 3's and 4's.
 
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Ah right and everyone thought Robert Gallery was a safe pick also.

Look, the entire draft is a crap-shoot. No-one knows anything and anything can happen, from the Huey Richardson's to the Blair Thomas's to the Bruce Picken's, it's all a crap-shoot.

You can't go into the draft, drafting "not-to-lose" so to speak, that reminds me of the "prevent-defense" which always "prevents a victory". Teams can't be afraid that some guy might have a high bust probability. Every team in the league has drafted Round 1 busts, every team has, some worse than others and others more often than others.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I have always firmly been in the "draft a CB" camp, and the more I look at the various options available, I'm convinced that DRC is the guy.

Someone suggested above that since Samuel was picked in the 4th round, that we shouldn't bother picking up a CB in the first. That seems to suggest that you're better off drafting a CB later, which seems pretty daft. I bet if you looked through the careers of NFL cornerbacks, on balance the guys drafted in the first round have had better careers than the guys drafted in the fourth.

If you have a need, you address that need the best way you can. Don't try to get to cute thinking that you're smarter than every other team.
 
Ah right and everyone thought Robert Gallery was a safe pick also.

Gallery was screwed because he had to deal with Art Shell and a guy implementing a 25 year old offense in a modern league. He's since been moved to guard and has turned into one of the better ones in the AFC, if not the league. Many times it's the situation guys end up in that determines whether they bust or are stars (though not always). One might wonder how Cade McNown would have fared if it was him throwing to Moss in Minnesota instead of Culpepper, for instance.
 
I know one team that won't be afraid to take him at #10 and that's the Saints, so why would we or should we be afraid to take him at #7.

The Saints most recent CB moves have been to break the bank for Jason David and pay starter $ to Randell Gay.

Is their stamp of approval a positive?
 
The Saints most recent CB moves have been to break the bank for Jason David and pay starter $ to Randell Gay.

Is their stamp of approval a positive?

I think the point was more that they are still in the market for a corner (despite the ridiculous amounts of money they have overspent there)
 
It doesn't really matter....Pats aren't going to draft Rodgers-Cromartie anyway....:)
 
It doesn't really matter....Pats aren't going to draft Rodgers-Cromartie anyway....:)

Do you have this straight from BB himself? I agree that odds are they won't, but I have to think at this point he's at least being considered.
 
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Lets say all the good defensive players (Gholston, Long, etc.) are gone, would you rather have Cromartie or McFadden?

Cromartie or Gholston?

Cromartie or Long?

Jenkins or Cromartie?

Hmm...learn to read.

Like I said, the subject is off topic. If you want to devote a topic to your binky, Chris Long, this is an open forum so go ahead and make a new thread. Now let's get back to talking about the subject of this thread, DRC.

He asked whom we'd rather have, I stated who...VJCPatriot, maybe you should stay on topic, or atleast read them.

So take your DRC binky and go home.

AND NO - DRC IS NOT WORTH #7 OVERALL.
 
but is not a problem that cromartie played in division I AA?
 
Hmm...learn to read.

He asked whom we'd rather have, I stated who...VJCPatriot, maybe you should stay on topic, or atleast read them.

So take your DRC binky and go home.

AND NO - DRC IS NOT WORTH #7 OVERALL.

Lol, trying to give reading lessons when you didn't bother to read his post? He was talking about Long like he was going to last to #7, which is not the case. And I've never said DRC at #7, with a trade down I would consider DRC however. At least I try to stick to the topic of the thread. :) Next time, you should consider doing the same.
 
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Is Rodgers-Cromartie two rounds better than Antwaun Molden?

Molden's Stats:
Ht: 6-1
Wt: 198
40 yd: 4.39
20 yd:2.55
10 yd: 1.5
Bench: 23 reps of 225
Vert: 37 1/2
Broad: 10'9"
20 yard shuttle: 4.14
3 cone: 6.85

Rodgers-Cromartie:
Ht: 6-2
Wt:184
40 yd: 4.33
20 yd: 2.51
10 yd: 1.49
Bench: 17 reps of 225
Vert: 38 1/2
Broad: 10'11"
20 yard shuttle: 4.17
3 cone: 6.74

They played in the same conference as well (Ohio Valley). Their numbers are ridiculously similar (where Molden trails ever so slightly in almost all drills) except Molden is bigger (by 14 pounds despite giving up an inch to Dominique) and stronger (23 to 17). One write up says he was hardly thrown on in '07 but still managed 9 passes defensed and two picks (compared to 11 and 2 for RoCro). I'm seeing almost identical players except one is named Cromartie; why does one deserve to be considered top ten pick overall and the other projects third or fourth round?

Or three rounds better than Jack Williams, Kent State:
5-9 177 4.32 (1.47, 2.53) Vert 41 Bench 18 Broad 10 6 Short 4.21 3C 6.61

He led the nation in forced fumbles as a junior, and recorded 93 tackles (6 1/2 for loss) 3 INTs and 8 passes defended in 2007.

It's a shame his name isn't Jack Williams-Bailey, because we'd be talking about taking him with the #7 pick...or I guess after a trade-down, since he's shorter than DRC.
 
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Or three rounds better than Jack Williams, Kent State:
5-9 177 4.32 (1.47, 2.53) Vert 41 Bench 18 Broad 10 6 Short 4.21 3C 6.61

He led the nation in forced fumbles as a junior, and recorded 93 tackles (6 1/2 for loss) 3 INTs and 8 passes defended in 2007.

It's a shame his name isn't Jack Williams-Bailey, because we'd be talking about taking him with the #7 pick...or I guess after a trade-down, since he's shorter than DRC.

*sigh* Another midget? I get it, you hate the thought of DRC in a Pats uniform. But don't give me this kind of junk. I don't want to see any more nightmare replays of Hobbs vs Burress in the Superbowl. Have you considered the logistical implications of the Pats putting out a pair of 5'9 corners to defend NFL receivers this year?

The growing trend for NFL receivers is increased height. Putting more midgets out there isn't exactly going to help that problem. It's not like I look at a guy like Brandon Flowers and don't see a good football player, I do. I just don't think that going shorter is going to help this team's DB issues.
 
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