Is Dominique Rodger-Cromartie Worth the #7 Pick?

[Mark Morse]

Two things here are points for concern--they're not absolute disqualifiers, but they're things that need to be considered:

(1) Combine tests are important, but BB/SP have shown that's not all they consider. They're also not tests of actual performance on game day.
(2) He proved himself in one game against DI receivers, not a full career. Maybe that was the best day he'll ever have, maybe not. But obviously, there is a risk here. OTOH, the Patriots are not averse to taking risks, but only when they think the upside balances/outweighs that risk. So the question isn't "Why should/n't the Pats take him?" so much as "Do the Pats think his upside is worth the risk inherent in drafting him at #X?"

BB likes players that have played at Big Time competition level. On the other hand you look at someone like Antonio Cromartie (his cousin) who played 3 games in college and you see the risk/reward. Size and athleticism from a player that didn't play at a D1 school. From what I have seen, I think DRC is the pick at #7 (if they keep the selection).

 

[BradyToMoss]

BB likes players that have played at Big Time competition level. On the other hand you look at someone like Antonio Cromartie (his cousin) who played 3 games in college and you see the risk/reward. Size and athleticism from a player that didn't play at a D1 school. From what I have seen, I think DRC is the pick at #7 (if they keep the selection).

Can I buy you a beer, you can see a lockdown-Pick 6 corner when you see one just like me, you want a bud or bud light my friend?

 

[sebman2112]

McKelvin remains the best CB in the draft, for now.

But according to NFLDC, DRC is not far behind.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/rankings.html

This has nothing to do with my opinion of DRC, but I can't see how McKelvin is considered the best CB in the draft, when he has weak ball skills. last time I checked, having good ball skills was important at CB...

 

[BradyToMoss]

This has nothing to do with my opinion of DRC, but I can't see how McKelvin is considered the best CB in the draft, when he has weak ball skills. last time I checked, having good ball skills was important at CB...

sebman, you're in the Pats war-room, Goodell has just said your on the clock. The following are off the board:

CLong, JLong, Gholston, Ryan, Dorsey, Ellis

You're looking at Mc"Trouble" and DRC staring you in the face at #7 and the phone isn't ringing.

What do you do?

 

[jays52]

I'm sorry, nothing trumps on-field competition.

Once upon a time there was this tailback from Jackson State...

 

[Wretch]

BB likes players that have played at Big Time competition level. On the other hand you look at someone like Antonio Cromartie (his cousin) who played 3 games in college and you see the risk/reward. Size and athleticism from a player that didn't play at a D1 school. From what I have seen, I think DRC is the pick at #7 (if they keep the selection).

I remember something from last years draft when the Pats drafted a running back from a small school (Hairston I think). BB commented that they wanted to see small school players be dominate against lesser competition. Has DRC been a dominate player at the Div 2 level? If not the Pats probably won't take him early regardless of combine results.

 

[sebman2112]

sebman, you're in the Pats war-room, Goodell has just said your on the clock. The following are off the board:

CLong, JLong, Gholston, Ryan, Dorsey, Ellis

You're looking at Mc"Trouble" and DRC staring you in the face at #7 and the phone isn't ringing.

What do you do?

Get on the phone and gauge interest in possible trades, as trading out of the pick is my favorite option. If I'm stuck with the pick...

I'm drafting either Keith Rivers (he WILL be an elite LB), Clady, or reach for Groves.

There's a number of good CB's in this draft, which makes selecting one in the top ten less appealing. Also, I don't think any of these CB's have proven themselves to be worth selecting at 7th overall.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Get on the phone and gauge interest in possible trades, as trading out of the pick is my favorite option. If I'm stuck with the pick...

I'm drafting either Keith Rivers (he WILL be an elite LB), Clady, or reach for Groves.

There's a number of good CB's in this draft, which makes selecting one in the top ten less appealing. Also, I don't think any of these CB's have proven themselves to be worth selecting at 7th overall.

I have to counter that:

If we're stuck at 7:
McTrouble is what he is and he's the best "value" at 7, Keith Rivers is a tremendous reach at 7 whereas DTrub can atleast be justified from a pure value perspective and dealt at a future point or meshed into a tremendous 2-headed monster with Maroney.

A deal I would make with Dallas for DMac wouldn't involve taking Jerry's 2 first rounders, how about asking him for his #22 his 2 and 3 that equates to an 1132 draft number which I know falls a tad short of our 1500 value at #7, but I think we could pull this off with Jerry if we left him with his #28, I think Jerry would be more apt to do that. The draft is so deep, for us to add his 2 and 3, think of the manuever ammo we would have if we were to pull this off.

#22 overall (Hope for DRC, settle for Cason), 2 - 2's, 3 - 3's (We could restock our entire defense for the next 6 years)

 

[sebman2112]

I have to counter that:

If we're stuck at 7:
McTrouble is what he is and he's the best "value" at 7, Keith Rivers is a tremendous reach at 7 whereas DTrub can atleast be justified from a pure value perspective and dealt at a future point or meshed into a tremendous 2-headed monster with Maroney.

A deal I would make with Dallas for DMac wouldn't involve taking Jerry's 2 first rounders, how about asking him for his #22 his 2 and 3 that equates to an 1132 draft number which I know falls a tad short of our 1500 value at #7, but I think we could pull this off with Jerry if we left him with his #28, I think Jerry would be more apt to do that. The draft is so deep, for us to add his 2 and 3, think of the manuever ammo we would have if we were to pull this off.

#22 overall (Hope for DRC, settle for Cason), 2 - 2's, 3 - 3's (We could restock our entire defense for the next 6 years)

Rivers has been projected as going in the top 10-12 picks. Taking him at 7th overall (also suggested two other players) wouldn't be a "tremendous reach". Taking McKelvin (who has weak ball skills) could be. If I'm selecting for NE McFadden's not an option. He doesn't make sense in rotation with Maroney either (they have similar skill sets and McFadden's not a power back). If I was going to select a RB for NE in the first round it would be Jonathan Stewart.

I already said trading down was my favorite option, so you don't have to talk me into it, lol. I also think they could get more than that, but if you team really wants to trade down they'll find a trading partner.

 

[DocE]

Brady to Moss: Your proposed trade falls 368 points short of equal value for the Patriots. 368 points is the equivalent of a mid to late 2nd round pick. I'd be fine with giving a discount to a team wanting no.7, but that's way too big of a discount.

I did some research and this might deserve its own thread, but I thought I'd post it here.

The last Division II players to be drafted in round 1 were Sylvester Morris and Rashard Anderson in the 2000 NFL Draft (both taken in the 20's). Both hailed from Jackson State neither ended up as a succesful NFL player.

I looked up the Patriots draft history from 2001 to the present and found two trends:

1. The Patriots almost always make a deal in the NFL Draft- most of the time they move down, occasionally they move up. When the Patriots down, especially after the 1st round, they often times get a pick in the following draft as part of the deal (ex trade out of the 3rd for a 4th this year and a 4th next year).

2. The Patriots almost always select large school players. There are very few instances of the Patriots taking a small school player in recent years. They have taken a large number of prospects from Notre Dame, LSU, and Miami.

I think the above trends I noted and the rarity of any team taking a DII player in round 1 make it highly unlikely that the Patriots select Rodgers-Cromartie in Rd 1, much less with the no. 7 pick.

I do like what I have seen from Rodgers-Cromartie, and would be happy if the Patriots took him in the first round, but not at no.7 overall. I think he has the potential to be a shutdown corner, BUT he also has a high bust possibility. His cousin was a boom/bust prospect coming out of FSU due to an injury history and lack of game experience. San Diego took the risk, but took it closer to the end of round 1. Domonique doesn't have the injury history, but he's also not quite as big weight wise as his cousin and played at a lower level.

I wouldn't blame the Patriots, whose window is open to win now, if they bypass Cromartie for a more polished CB who doesn't have the upsidde, but maybe is more polished due to experience in a major program.

 

[lightningbolt]

Let me start out by saying as a Chargers fan that I would hate to see the Patriots get DRC. His cousin, Antonio was considered a risky pick by the Chargers at #19 overall because he had only played 3 games in college and didn't even play his junior year because of injury, but A.J. Smith took the risk because he knew that Antonio Cromartie's raw physical skills were through the roof.

So, the Chargers took him at #19 and made him sit and learn for a year with limited game time experience, so that by the time it was his second year his technique and knowledge of the game had dramatically improved. That's why he was able to get 10 interceptions in the regular season while only starting 7 games because he had spent a lot of time studying film and improving his technique.

Antonio Cromartie's technique is not perfect yet, but his athleticism makes up for his mental mistakes because he can close on the ball quickly and out jump most receivers, not to mention also that he can catch well, which is a trait lacking in most corners.

If the Patriots drafted DRC, they would have to do so knowing that they would have to put more time into developing his technique but with a bigger payoff than say a corner who is not as athletic but is more experienced. He would also need to put on some more muscle to become a better tackler and to box out receivers when the ball is thrown his way.

If DRC added more muscle he would not lose speed as some people here have suggested. There's a reason why olympic sprinters all look muscular while long distance runners are thin. Muscle does not decrease speed but rather adds on to it. There's a certain point where muscle hurts your speed but at DRC's height he can comfortably be 205 lbs and not lose speed. His cousin Antonio is 203 lbs and he's the same height, but he still runs a 4.30 40 yard dash.

I understand the risk in taking DRC but if he turns out like his cousin, it's well worth the pick, which is why the Patriots should take him in the first round and not risk letting him fall to another team. Who knows, it could be DRC doing this in a Patriots uniform:

Antonio during training camp his rookie year. Look at Marty drool at his leaping ability:

 

[BradyToMoss]

"Let me start out by saying as a Chargers fan that I would hate to see the Patriots get DRC. His cousin, Antonio was considered a risky pick by the Chargers at #19 overall because he had only played 3 games in college and didn't even play his junior year because of injury, but A.J. Smith took the risk because he knew that Antonio Cromartie's raw physical skills were through the roof.

So, the Chargers took him at #19 and made him sit and learn for a year with limited game time experience, so that by the time it was his second year his technique and knowledge of the game had dramatically improved. That's why he was able to get 10 interceptions in the regular season while only starting 10 games because he had spent a lot of time studying film and improving his technique.

Antonio Cromartie's technique is not perfect yet, but his athleticism makes up for his mental mistakes because he can close on the ball quickly and out jump most receivers, not to mention also that he can catch well, which is a trait lacking in most corners.

If the Patriots drafted DRC, they would have to do so knowing that they would have to put more time into developing his technique but with a bigger payoff than say a corner who is not as athletic but is more experienced. He would also need to put on some more muscle to become a better tackler and to box out receivers when the ball is thrown his way.

If DRC added more muscle he would not lose speed as some people here have suggested. There's a reason why olympic sprinters all look muscular while long distance runners are thin. Muscle does not decrease speed but rather adds on to it. There's a certain point where muscle hurts your speed but at DRC's height he can comfortably be 205 lbs and not lose speed. His cousin Antonio is 203 lbs and he's the same height, but he still runs a 4.30 40 yard dash.

I understand the risk in taking DRC but if he turns out like his cousin, it's well worth the pick, which is why the Patriots should take him in the first round and not risk letting him fall to another team. Who knows, it could be DRC doing this in a Patriots uniform:"

You are a very, very smart San Diego Charger fan, you're analysis of both of these guys is spot on. As you can tell, I'm a DRC backer. You have no idea how bad I want the Pats to draft his kid, because I know he is going to be just like his cousin and not because they have the name, it's more because of what they physically and athletically will bring to the field on Sundays. To me Antonio Cromartie is the best corner in football and he is so young, he has a long, great career ahead of him and you guys better break the bank to keep him, because you'll have to.

Again, you've seen my earlier posts, I truly believe that DRC will turn out to be every bit as great as his cousin, small school, tiny school, dinky school, I don't care what school he went to, my eye balls see the freakish ability that he is going to put on display on Sundays. I have a question for you, did you watch the Senior Bowl and if you did, what did you think of the plays he made?

 

[tombonneau]

FWIW, Kiper now has Pats taking DRC with the #7 pick. Not sure how I'd feel about it, but thought worth posting in this thread.

I honestly don't see Pats rolling the dice with such a high pick on a small school combine darling.

 

[BradyToMoss]

FWIW, Kiper now has Pats taking DRC with the #7 pick. Not sure how I'd feel about it, but thought worth posting in this thread.

I honestly don't see Pats rolling the dice with such a high pick on a small school combine darling.

Thank you kindly for this information, I noticed that he had put up his mock, but I'm not a subsriber and I couldn't view it. This news makes my day.

Dryheat44 are you out there, do you want to comment on Mel's #7 - DRC to the Pats projection? I thought you might want to chime in on that.

 

[lightningbolt]

You are a very, very smart San Diego Charger fan, you're analysis of both of these guys is spot on. As you can tell, I'm a DRC backer. You have no idea how bad I want the Pats to draft his kid, because I know he is going to be just like his cousin and not because they have the name, it's more because of what they physically and athletically will bring to the field on Sundays. To me Antonio Cromartie is the best corner in football and he is so young, he has a long, great career ahead of him and you guys better break the bank to keep him, because you'll have to.

Again, you've seen my earlier posts, I truly believe that DRC will turn out to be every bit as great as his cousin, small school, tiny school, dinky school, I don't care what school he went to, my eye balls see the freakish ability that he is going to put on display on Sundays. I have a question for you, did you watch the Senior Bowl and if you did, what did you think of the plays he made?

I didn't watch the game but I watched highlights of it and have seen highlights of DRC. He reminded me of his cousin when he leaped up to get that interception during the senior bowl. The only problem I have with him is that he's too skinny at the moment.

He needs to add on more muscle because his cousin was much stronger coming out of college. Antonio Cromartie was listed as 210 lbs when he came out of college so he actually dropped about 7 pounds since he's been on the Chargers.

DRC is only 184 lbs so he'll need to add on about another 18 lbs in order to have the same strength as his cousin. That can be added during the summer and also his rookie season.

 

[dryheat44]

I didn't watch the game but I watched highlights of it and have seen highlights of DRC. He reminded me of his cousin when he leaped up to get that interception during the senior bowl. The only problem I have with him is that he's too skinny at the moment.

He needs to add on more muscle because his cousin was much stronger coming out of college. Antonio Cromartie was listed as 210 lbs when he came out of college so he actually dropped about 7 pounds since he's been on the Chargers.

DRC is only 184 lbs so he'll need to add on about another 18 lbs in order to have the same strength as his cousin. That can be added during the summer and also his rookie season.

Here's the million dollar question: If his name was Dominique Jones, would you (and others) still recommend we take him in the first round? Even better, what if his name were Dominique Rodgers-Starks.

I think we're giving DRC a little too much credit for coming from the same gene pool. See Canseco, Jose and Ozzie. Or Crumpler, Carlester and Alge.

 

[lightningbolt]

Here's the million dollar question: If his name was Dominique Jones, would you (and others) still recommend we take him in the first round? Even better, what if his name were Dominique Rodgers-Starks.

I think we're giving DRC a little too much credit for coming from the same gene pool. See Canseco, Jose and Ozzie. Or Crumpler, Carlester and Alge.

The point is that he doesn't just come from the same gene pool but he's pretty much got the same athletic ability as Antonio Cromartie. My view is that anyone can be trained to be a corner as long as they start out with good physical skills. Belichick can mold this kid into another Antonio if he teaches him well.

 

[BradyToMoss]

I didn't watch the game but I watched highlights of it and have seen highlights of DRC. He reminded me of his cousin when he leaped up to get that interception during the senior bowl. The only problem I have with him is that he's too skinny at the moment.

He needs to add on more muscle because his cousin was much stronger coming out of college. Antonio Cromartie was listed as 210 lbs when he came out of college so he actually dropped about 7 pounds since he's been on the Chargers.

DRC is only 184 lbs so he'll need to add on about another 18 lbs in order to have the same strength as his cousin. That can be added during the summer and also his rookie season.

I know he's very thin and that's something the S&C coach will address. But look at Deion, Deion Sanders played thin and was never considered a physical corner by an stretch nor will DRC. They are both classic finesse corners and that's fine with me. To be honest I don't think DRC will ever get to be as big as Antonio anyway.

 

[chowder]

Here's the million dollar question: If his name was Dominique Jones, would you (and others) still recommend we take him in the first round? Even better, what if his name were Dominique Rodgers-Starks.

I think we're giving DRC a little too much credit for coming from the same gene pool. See Canseco, Jose and Ozzie. Or Crumpler, Carlester and Alge.

I'd pass if his name was Dominique Canty-Starks. lol. His bloodlines and Combine and Senior Bowl performance makes him an interesting although somewhat risky pick for #7. I'd feel better if we could trade down to get him but I would not complain if he was the #7 pick. rodgers-cromartie and antoine cason are still my two favorite CBs in the draft so far...

 

[lightningbolt]

I know he's very thin and that's something the S&C coach will address. But look at Deion, Deion Sanders played thin and was never considered a physical corner by an stretch nor will DRC. They are both classic finesse corners and that's fine with me. To be honest I don't think DRC will ever get to be as big as Antonio anyway.

Deion Sanders was an inch shorter than DRC and he weighed 14 lbs more than him during his playing days. The general rule is, the taller you are the more you need to weigh. At 6'2, DRC should be at least 200 lbs while a 5'10 corner can be 190lbs with the same percentage of muscle.